Noah's Ark Zoo Farm Noah's Ark Zoo Farm

Andrew Swales said:
You must excuse me too, (as I am no expert) for not knowing that a 'prayer meeting' and 'divine intervention' were different...
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I think you've reduced the thread to pointless arguing now, unless you really didn't get the point that sometimes people only achieve things through a dogged belief in what they are doing, religious belief or not.
 
Ned said:
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I wasn't suggesting divine intervention, more blind faith. Sometimes you need a blind faith in something if you're going to succeed where others haven't, not necessarily a religious faith but in this case it seems to have been.
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Its perhaps woth noting that 'Elephant Eden' at NA has not turned out quite as they intended re stocking it. Initially they advertised its purpose was to house 'rescue elephants' from other zoos/circuses etc. That didn't happen. It was also billed at one stage as 'home for a breeding herd of Asiatic elephants'. That also didn't happen. What they have got is excellent and very spacious modern accomodation( I have only seen photos) that is currently underused as home to just three African bulls, though more may follow. So it has ended up as a home for bachelor African elephants. Not detracting from that as a valuable function, but it seems despite the state of the art building, sourcing the actual Elephants to fill it has involved some difficulty.
 
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Pertinax said:
Its perhaps woth noting that 'Elephant Eden' at NA has not turned out quite as they intended re stocking it. Initially they advertised its purpose was to house 'rescue elephants' from other zoos/circuses etc. That didn't happen. It was also billed at one stage as 'home for a breeding herd of Asiatic elephants'. That also didn't happen. What they have got is excellent and very spacious modern accomodation( I have only seen photos) that is currently underused as home to just three African bulls, though more may follow. So it has ended up as a home for bachelor African elephants. Not detracting from that as a valuable function, but it seems despite the state of the art building, sourcing the actual Elephants to fill it has involved some difficulty.
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Yes, it was empty for a long time, maybe two years. It seems they had no idea of where they would source elephants but built it with the philosophy of 'build it and they will come'.
 
Pertinax said:
Its perhaps woth noting that 'Elephant Eden' at NA has not turned out quite as they intended re stocking it. Initially they advertised its purpose was to house 'rescue elephants' from other zoos/circuses etc. That didn't happen. It was also billed at one stage as 'home for a breeding herd of Asiatic elephants'. That also didn't happen. What they have got is excellent and very spacious modern accomodation( I have only seen photos) that is currently underused as home to just three African bulls, though more may follow. So it has ended up as a home for bachelor African elephants. Not detracting from that as a valuable function, but it seems despite the state of the art building, sourcing the actual Elephants to fill it has involved some difficulty.
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Yes, indeed - such an investment without a specific end in mind, based on a 'build it and they will come' hunch (or another choice of description) - is very different to the approach most zoos would take these days.
 
Ned said:
Yes, it was empty for a long time, maybe two years. It seems they had no idea of where they would source elephants but built it with the philosophy of 'build it and they will come'.
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Yes, and it took a long time for any to come. First was female Buta from Knowlsey who died after a year or so. Its very underused still but as one of the two younger bulls they have, came from Howletts, I can see them sourcing a couple more from them in the not so distant future. I remember that apart from the unusual creationist aspect, Noah's Ark started off basically as a very amateur development from the owner's Dairy Farm. It seems to have come a long way from that now, despite many of the earlier buildings being very basic and I don't know how it is viewed by the traditional, more scientific Zoo community, even now. On my only visit there(so far), I found most of the religious messaging was confined to an area of a very large playbarn, rather than on the animal exhibits, where signage was very basic.
 
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Plans do change and if there aren't the individuals available then a breeding herd cannot be formed. So to answer your question @The Hedgehog no I don't think it's a waste, just needed in its current format atm and become a breeding herd in the future.
I don't know of any other place in Britain that can offer a bachelor herd of elephants from either species, the facilties that these can.

Plus don't elephants generally live in family groups? What place is just going to give up a breeding herd of elephants (of either species) of their own free will? I'm sure NAZF will have a breeding herd eventually but maybe we all just have to be patient.
 
Embu said:
I'm sure NAZF will have a breeding herd eventually but maybe we all just have to be patient.
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How?
To change from a bachelor facility (for any spp) to a breeding one, would require the building of another bachelor facility (either on-site or else-where) to take the bachelors, thus freeing up the original accommodation. The chances of this happening must be minimal - so once a bachelor facility, always a bachelor facility...
 
banham.tiger said:
Are the plans to keep tigers in the future or is the enclosure now occupied by the lions?
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During a visit some time ago I was told that they hoped to go into one of the tigers subspecies but of course that may have changed. On my last visit the tiger enclosures were empty.
 
Andrew Swales said:
How?
To change from a bachelor facility (for any spp) to a breeding one, would require the building of another bachelor facility (either on-site or else-where) to take the bachelors, thus freeing up the original accommodation. The chances of this happening must be minimal - so once a bachelor facility, always a bachelor facility...
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@Andrew Swales I apologise if I come across as morbid, but once Yhetto and Dunja at Belfast Zoo pass away the enclosure at Belfast could become the new European bachelor heard for African Elephants.
 
Noah's Ark weren't able to obtain a breeding group of either species which was one of the original plans behind building this facility. A few other zoos have been prepared to send three surplus bulls there but that is about it at present. I don't known what their relationships with EAZA & EEP are currently as that would largely determine what Elephants they were to able to receive( apart from places like Howletts that is) but I suspect they will now stay with keeping African males indefinately. As mentioned above, it serves a very usual function- which could be extended- though probably not what they necessarily intended building it for. As Maguari once said, they had to take 'whatever Elephants they could get.'
 
@Pertinax when you say this “A few other zoos have been prepared to send three surplus bulls there but that is about it at present“ what Zoo’s are you referring too?
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax when you say this “A few other zoos have been prepared to send three surplus bulls there but that is about it at present“ what Zoo’s are you referring too?
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The three zoos from where the current Elephants came from- one was Howletts, one was a zoo in Sweden somewhere and I can't remember where the adult bull came from. If you look on Noah's Ark's own pages they may give the information.
 
Pertinax said:
The three zoos from where the current Elephants came from- one was Howletts, one was a zoo in Sweden somewhere and I can't remember where the adult bull came from. If you look on Noah's Ark's own pages they may give the information.
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The Hedgehog said:
@Pertinax when you say this “A few other zoos have been prepared to send three surplus bulls there but that is about it at present“ what Zoo’s are you referring too?
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You may be underestimating the usefulness of a bachelor herd to an elephant breeding programme. In the wild, young bulls learn a lot of their social skills from adult bulls, who exert discipline where necessary. I believe I’m right in saying that this makes them safer with conspecifics in later life, and better breeding bulls accordingly. There is at least one continental zoo hosting a bachelor group of Asian Elephants.
 
I did mention in two of my previous posts that I wasn't underestimating its importance as a bachelor-holding facility- although it is not being used to anything like its holding capacity I don't think. Only that wasn't their original intention when building it.
 
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