I believe that after the Asian elephants left the park they linked the two elephant exhibits together so I am surprised they have reduced the numbers that much?
North American African Elephant Population 2025
- Thread starter E Maximus
- Start date
One was still always used for the bull though.
The zoo had two main elephant exhibits from what I understand both 5 acres each both moated Africans in one side and Asians the other side (I was not referring to the bull yard) until the asians were transported to the SD zoo, I followed the construction of the interconnected raceway which gave the African herd the use of both exhibits
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
They didn't have a breeding bull onsite for a good number of years because Mabu would breed with his daughters, which likely is why we haven't seen a birth there in pushing 8 years. They've got a nice expansion underway though, so the numbers will likely bounce back.
That is great news, Will the expansion be expanding the footprint of the current exhibits which are joined by a corridor with steel gates? Any ideas who maybe the new breeding bull?
Yes, the western habitat is being expanded. Footprint of the previous exhibit is roughly being doubled.
Wonderful news hopefully they can get their herd up to former numbers!
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I believe it is confirmed that Musi will be coming back once construction is completed.
47 year old African elephant Lois at the Kansas City Zoo has died
Kansas City Zoo mourns loss of 47-year-old elephant
Kansas City Zoo mourns loss of 47-year-old elephant
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This isn’t true. The exhibits are roughly the same size as they were before. With the new planters in both yards and the new pool in the western yard, the actual foot space in the exhibits is actually probably smaller than before. Elephant Valley is more of renovation/reimagining than an expansion.
Thanks for the correction. I was looking at an article that detailed the precinct's space as a whole, but forgot there will be a space called 'Mkutano Park' taking up a decent chunk of the precinct next to the Western yard.
Indeed. The old demonstration yard area has been taken over by the restaurant and the “Mkutano Park” open space area/event stage for guests. The footprints of the two exhibits and their respective barns are unchanged.
Yes, of the eight remaining elephants at Kansas City, four are over 45 years of age; with another two aged 39 and 41 years:
0.1 Lady (1968)
0.1 Tattoo (1978)
0.1 Lea (1978)
0.1 Megan (1978)
0.1 Zoe (1984)
0.1 Christi (1986)
1.0 Tamani (2005)
0.1 Zuri (2009)
This planned move would potentially create matriarchal herd lines at both facilities much as would be the case in the wilds! However, I do hope that management at the very same time has firmly been focussing on having a proven bull or bringing in on transfer of 2 proven bulls (never been much of a fan of AI ..., reproductive research all well and good, the main route to reproductive success remains a proven resident bull on site!) at both facilities A.S.A.P.!
Given the not as much stated (the whole news feature centres around behavioral/social wellbeing of both herds) long term objective(s) for creating better natural breeding options for both herds, it is essential to look at the current make up of both herds. If you look age and breeding history like at both the ICC and Zoo herds it seems the only hope for long term breeding from the (primiparous) cows lies with Zuri and Sukiri (has bred and birthed in 2021, unfortunately losing her calf in 2024 to EEHV) only....
Now, this raises several questions as to the current status quo with both herds:
A) Spacewise, what options are there for both herds to develop and expand? This in terms of both realistic breeding outputs as well as facility space on the ground to have a breeding bull compound, a matriarchal herd exhibit and a non-breeding cow facility.
B.i.) Social structurewise, I do see some issues with a majority of elderly, potentially non-breeding or almost senescent elderly elephant cows. How is that going to be dealt with in a setting of creating 2 matriarchal herds with potential for calves from both. The suggestion to reunite mother-daughter relationships with transferring in cow Moja from Wildlife Safari in Oregon seems a real option! Further a hard look needs to be taken at the non breeding and/or senescent elderly cow part of the both elephant herds, A move on and out of some of these individuals is currently still realistic and must seriously be considered given probable planning for breeding at both facilities.
B.ii.) Social structurewise, long term management needs to take a critical look at proven bull situation. Most urgent of all; what is the current track record of bull Jackson at the ICC in Fairhope and what are the reproductive issues with him and/or the non-breeding cows he has been with (Bette? and Seeni?)?
Further, AI being well and good with bull sperm from outside that is technically fraught with loads
of non natural reproductive technology, so personally I would like to see what options exist to bring in more proven bulls and the shortest routes to getting the cows that may yet reproduce (Sukiri?, Angelina? and Zuri?) on the road to their being maten and with new or first pregnancies....?
C) The final question is: When is all this going to happen as on current news item the planning and timeframe has not been announced yet for both Victoria/Zuri move to ICC in Fairhope?
I invite All local ZC forumsters to look at the above in more detail!
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Fairhope has a lot of space to work with; huge paddocks and a huge barn. They could easily accommodate two separate herds if need be, but I imagine the intention will be to group Victoria and Zuri with the current cows there if possible.
I imagine for Pittsburgh, this move will also allow them to breed from Angelina if they wish, although as has been mentioned, this would likely have to be via AI as there's not enough space for a bull realistically nowadays.
I imagine the plan will be for Victoria and Zuri to be integrated with the herd at the ICC. However in the case they're not, it should still be fine, Jack spends a bit of time with the current herd there, so if need be, they could still hold two groups.
Bette's too old to breed now. There's a small chance Seeni could, but it's probably unrealistic given she last birthed over eight years ago now and that calf (being her only calf) passed away at birth.
Jackson's a proven bull - and the news reports highlight this, seemingly indicating the intention is to pair his own daughters with him; but perhaps they'll just be re-united socially.
It was reported to be in about two weeks, two weeks ago, so they should be moving across any day now.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Seeni's calf did not die at birth. She rejected her after giving birth prematurely and keepers pulled the calf for hand-rearing at the main zoo. She did later pass away a few months later though. I wouldn't anticipate they would aim to breed her again given that she rejected her first calf back in Africa and then her second one. There is strong potential for her to reject another calf, and the unfortunate likelihood of that subsequently bottle raised calf not surviving.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
In hindsight the move from Pittsburgh to the ICC should have happened over a decade ago as it would've allowed the ICC the opportunity to have a much more successful breeding program, though the fact that the move is happening at all is extremely good news, frees up space at the zoo for a bull to be brought in, while simultaneously expanding the ICC's herd, and the potential of having calves from Zuri and maybe Sukiri if they still plan on breeding her.
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I don't see why they shouldn't. I know Sukiri was going through a period where she was grieving for a few months after Tsuni's death (which is normal). This year I've also seen a lot of videos of her in with just Jackson, potentially indicating they have been attempting to breed from her again.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
As previously commented on, Pittsburgh has zero good reason not to breed from Zuri, Angelina and Sukiri.
There is enough space at both facilities to accommodate a bull if need be (even though the main zoo is smaller than is ideal), and truthfully it should be the intent/goal to bring in one for each facility unless one/both girls are already pregnant via AI (which is a possibility and my hope, even if unrealistic). All three girls are too valuable to justify not breeding them, even Angelina with a full brother breeding is still one of her wildborn mother's only two calves...
Furthermore, there is plenty of space at ICC to accommodate multuple bulls and multiple cow groups, though I do anticipate the goal is to integrate the cows in order for calves to be born/grow up close in age. I imagine the goal is for the remaining cows to make their way over eventually as well in order to phase elephants out of the zoo or revamp the exibit for bachelor purposes.
There is enough space at both facilities to accommodate a bull if need be (even though the main zoo is smaller than is ideal), and truthfully it should be the intent/goal to bring in one for each facility unless one/both girls are already pregnant via AI (which is a possibility and my hope, even if unrealistic). All three girls are too valuable to justify not breeding them, even Angelina with a full brother breeding is still one of her wildborn mother's only two calves...
Furthermore, there is plenty of space at ICC to accommodate multuple bulls and multiple cow groups, though I do anticipate the goal is to integrate the cows in order for calves to be born/grow up close in age. I imagine the goal is for the remaining cows to make their way over eventually as well in order to phase elephants out of the zoo or revamp the exibit for bachelor purposes.
Speaking of, it's downright hilarious how poorly timed the NhRP's latest clownshow of a lawsuit is against Pittsburgh Zoo, considering they're actively switching things up for their elephant herd with Victoria and Zuri moving to the MUCH more spacious ICC and (potentially) more moves on the horizon. Pittsburgh is at a crossroads with its elephant program, where they have a good compromise/easy way to phase out with the ICC being an hour and a half drive away, (not to mention the zoo could provide the space they say they lack for black rhinos in the elephants' stead), OR they could host young bulls on a temporary basis while they focus all their breeding efforts at the ICC.