Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
She's name is Mapenzi.
North American African Elephant Reproduction
- Thread starter Elephant Enthusiast
- Start date
Have u guys heard of any news of bringing in any bulls to SDZSP any time soon to breed with Swazi, Ndula, Umngani, Khosi, or Kami?
Not that I have heard, but this needs to happen soon so breeding opportunities are not missed in this SSP. And some genetic diversity would be welcome to this herd as well. I'm not sure which proven bull would be best, but hopefully there is some movement soon.
We are waiting to see if there is any success in breeding at Omaha as well, since there are 2 bulls that were both brought in for breeding purposes.
Well we are waiting for all the Swazi imports to breed tbh. Dallas Zoo, Sedgwick County, Fresno Chaffee and Omaha have yet to have any calves except for one elephant who was already pregnant when she was imported.
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
I think a suitable bull would be Tonka from Knoxville. They said they wanted to move him so he could have calves, but still nothing. Ali from Jacksonville would also be good. He only lives there with two older cows.
I wish Tonka would go. Founder bull with no offspring, and the zoo seems to have no interest in doing AI from him. Ali would be a good option too, but he at least has 2 offspring through AI, and I'm sure the zoo would be willing to collect semen again. Other good options might be S'dudla from Tampa or Tamani from Kansas?
The issue with the US African elephant population, so many bulls are behavioural non breeders. Think...
Mabu, Jackson, Maclean, and S'dudla are the only bulls who are breeding naturally right now. Msholo, Tuffy, Artie, Czar, Osh, Vusmusi and Louie are all behavioural non breeders, and the only ones who stand a realistic chance of becoming natural breeders are Louie and Vusmusi as they gain experience.
Others, Ali, Callie, Ajani, Tamani, Kedar, Tendaji, Samson, Tonka, and more, have either never had a good chance to breed naturally, or are just newly moved into breeding situations.
US African elephant population is a disgusting mess. Asians at least, most of the bulls will breed naturally, the population is just managed poorly. Africans though, along with bad management, only a fraction of the male population has proven to be able to breed naturally so far. Proven bulls should be moving every 2-3 years to different facilities to breed with all the aging cows and AI born females who are beyond due for first calves, non breeders should be pulled from natural breeding situations and moved to facilities that will collect for AI, and young bulls need MUCH better social rearing to support them becoming good natural sires.
People say the US population of African elephants is sustaining much better than the European one, and I couldn't agree less. US was doing well for a brief period of time from 2008-2012 when there were lots of calves born, but that was it. Europe has much better founder represention, way more natural breeding bulls, and much more consistent calf production (not to mention multiple third and even a fourth generation captive bred animal, while the US only has 5 second gen animals total, and none of them have bred yet. (Technically Osh is second gen too, but he came from Europe, so doesn't count).
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
I've heard that Kansas is trying to get younger cows, so they will probably want to keep Tamani. Sdudla would be a good candidate, but someone should replace him right away. But I don't know why Matjeka and Mbali don't reproduce. What is the problem?
The European population is several times better. In America we can hardly find a cow that has had more than three calves in its lifetime, in Europe there are many, for example Sabie and Sweni in Wuppertal, who are not even thirty and both already have five calves and Sabie is even a grandmother.
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
Six big ways Orlando theme parks are changing, aside from coronavirus safety measures
I found this article. I don't understand him a bit, but they say something about the fact that it is possible that DAK will get rid of elephants. It would be a shame. It may also be the reason for the lack of births in recent years. But if they want to end their elephant breeding in the future, they should not stop breeding them. They have many important cows in the future. For example, Vasha had not had a calf for 9 years, and Kianga and Nidirah had not yet reproduced. There was also something said about Lowry Park, but I don't understand much. The whole article is kind of weird, speculative.
I found this article. I don't understand him a bit, but they say something about the fact that it is possible that DAK will get rid of elephants. It would be a shame. It may also be the reason for the lack of births in recent years. But if they want to end their elephant breeding in the future, they should not stop breeding them. They have many important cows in the future. For example, Vasha had not had a calf for 9 years, and Kianga and Nidirah had not yet reproduced. There was also something said about Lowry Park, but I don't understand much. The whole article is kind of weird, speculative.
The article mentioned that ZooTampa at Lowry Park only had four elephants, an adult male, his two daughters, and an older female. So where are Mbali and Matjeka?
'Tiger King' Jeff Lowe to Consider Homing Michael Jackson's Elephants and Other Animals in New Zoo - Tv Shows Ace
I stumbled across this article today. To sum it up, it said that Jeff Lowe is considering 'rehoming' Michael Jackson's elephants, Ali and Baba, at his Tiger King Park. The article mentions that Ali's lease in Jacksonville recently expired and he and Baba are currently in the care of a man in Oregon. If this is true, it could be really bad for the North American African Elephant population, Ali is one of a few proven bulls in the states and if he moves out of the AZA I can't imagine his genes will be utilized again. It also means Jacksonville is down to two elephants, and Susie at Serengeti Ranch is alone. I really hope this is all just a rumor, but it sounds like it isn't. I find it interesting that Jacksonville didn't announce anything though.
I stumbled across this article today. To sum it up, it said that Jeff Lowe is considering 'rehoming' Michael Jackson's elephants, Ali and Baba, at his Tiger King Park. The article mentions that Ali's lease in Jacksonville recently expired and he and Baba are currently in the care of a man in Oregon. If this is true, it could be really bad for the North American African Elephant population, Ali is one of a few proven bulls in the states and if he moves out of the AZA I can't imagine his genes will be utilized again. It also means Jacksonville is down to two elephants, and Susie at Serengeti Ranch is alone. I really hope this is all just a rumor, but it sounds like it isn't. I find it interesting that Jacksonville didn't announce anything though.
I doubt Jacksonville Zoo is trying to get rid of them as the article seems to hint. Instead the current owner may be trying to move them to a new facility. I would highly doubt that Jeff Lowe will find the money to build an elephant facility capable of holding a bull, given that he can barely house the 200 cats he currently owns. I also doubt they would get a good quality of care, especially compared to Jacksonville which has standards and safety protocols. If this does happen its a loss for the population, and its simply not in the best interests of the animals.
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
I didn't notice that, why don't they say anything about Mbali and Matjeka? Maybe four elephants only mean adult elephants?
In any case, they should try to reproduce Mbali and Matjeka. If DAK cancels its elephant breeding, I hope it doesn't end breeding their elephants. Otherwise, the North American population of African elephants is nearing extinction. And whether to negotiate any more elephants from Africa is not the answer. He must first try to breed an organized way. I think there is still a chance to stop this extinction, but it would have to be a radical change in their disorganized breeding. The San Diego safari park should have had a new bull a long time ago, Sdudla should be replaced by Mabu, Montgomery should get a bull and Asali from Memphis could also move if zoo is not interested in breeding her.
And if Ali really leaves Jacksonville, there are very few breeding bulls left.
Couple of things:
Lowe is full of ****. Ali is going no where, frankly he is the lynch pin keeping the Jax elephant program and Baba's owner has no interest in selling either of his elephants.
I have had speculation for a few years now that DAK would eventually get out of elephants. Knowing some of the elephant staff, it's never been actually discussed but speculation has arose around the time Stella was born.
I have not heard of any elephants leaving Lowry. I know that Ellie and the 2 imports didnt always get along but in recent time have seen all the girls together. Last time I was there they believed one if not both were pregnant. I have not gotten an update since. Was about 1.5 years ago
Lowe is full of ****. Ali is going no where, frankly he is the lynch pin keeping the Jax elephant program and Baba's owner has no interest in selling either of his elephants.
I have had speculation for a few years now that DAK would eventually get out of elephants. Knowing some of the elephant staff, it's never been actually discussed but speculation has arose around the time Stella was born.
I have not heard of any elephants leaving Lowry. I know that Ellie and the 2 imports didnt always get along but in recent time have seen all the girls together. Last time I was there they believed one if not both were pregnant. I have not gotten an update since. Was about 1.5 years ago
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
It would have been less then 2 months since conception when I was there, hence they weren't sure. At this point, no they wouldnt have been. In this time frame they would have tried again. Lowry is one facility that has been putting in a good effort in trying to boost the African population.
You're kidding about that one, right? Tampa has one of the most pathetic breeding programs with elephants that will willingly naturally breed I've ever seen. When I visited in December of 2017 (the calves at the time being 5 and 4.5 years old), the staff were saying they were just now getting ready to start thinking about breeding the cows again. Even if they are already a year and a half pregnant now, that's a calving interval of over 7 years for both cows. If they were actually serious about breeding their elephants and contributing to the population, both Mbali and Matjeka should be into their third pregnancies at this point. The only thing I'll give them credit for, is they did try for several years to get Ellie pregnant again after she had Tamani, but sadly another AI never took, and she is not a natural breeder.
You're kidding about that one, right? Tampa has one of the most pathetic breeding programs with elephants that will willingly naturally breed I've ever seen. When I visited in December of 2017 (the calves at the time being 5 and 4.5 years old), the staff were saying they were just now getting ready to start thinking about breeding the cows again. Even if they are already a year and a half pregnant now, that's a calving interval of over 7 years for both cows. If they were actually serious about breeding their elephants and contributing to the population, both Mbali and Matjeka should be into their third pregnancies at this point. The only thing I'll give them credit for, is they did try for several years to get Ellie pregnant again after she had Tamani, but sadly another AI never took, and she is not a natural breeder.
Trying and being successful are two different things. They have been trying repeatedly with all 3 girls, just not having the success they hoped. It's more than I can say about certain facilities that aren't or haven't been putting the effort forward even tho they have the capability to do so. It's always been a strange thing to me, granted I'm a bit more militant about breeding. I have worked/have close colleagues at some of these facilities that drag their feet about it. I will say it tends to be the higher ups that throw wrenches in the gears.
@Hyak_II wouldnt call Lowry pathetic. The fact they contributed 3 calves to the population, including having 2 at roughly the same time is quite an achievement. A shame they never could get Ellie pregnant again but it wasnt without the effort. Coincidentally I would have been there not too long after your last visit and also talked to the elephant staff. Another thing about Lowry is their extreme turnover rate in that department which adds another ripple in the water. I wish they had more success but certainly not pathetic. I can think of a few that are tho....
Are there any current pregnancies anywhere?