North American Amur Tiger Population

Animals R AMAZING! said:
Hopefully they recover soon! It’s annoying that they don’t mention their names, Omaha has been so difficult to find information on for their tigers.
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Lee G. Simmons Conservation Park and Wildlife Safari:
1.0 Bronevik (Kazek x Basha) June 2nd, 2009 at Utah's Hogle Zoo
1.0 Diesel (Tikhon x Baryshnya) April 20th, 2017 at Moskovsky Zoopark
01. Nika (Globus x Koshka) May 9th, 2005 at Riverbanks Zoo and Garden
01. Patricie (Jupiter x Nina) July 9th, 2012 at Dvůr Králové Zoo
01. Elara (Jupiter x Irisa) May 16th, 2016 at Columbus Zoo and Aquarium
0.1 Vera ( Putin x Sundari) April 26th, 2017 at Minnesota Zoological Garden

Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo and Aquarium:
1.0 Spoutnik (Jack x Mazyria) May 13th, 2013 at Zoo de Granby
0.1 Isabelle (Yorgi x Taisiia) June 22nd, 2010 at Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo and Aquarium
 
Why is the movement of animals between zoos so highly secret? Sometimes even more so than when they pass away (which many zoos also keep secret).
 
WanderingDragon said:
Why is the movement of animals between zoos so highly secret? Sometimes even more so than when they pass away (which many zoos also keep secret).
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Zoos usually don't announce the actual dates in which they transfer animals for security reasons but I don't get why some zoos don't even announce it when they recieve a new animal and put it out on exhibit (especially a popular animal like a tiger).
 
Animals R AMAZING! said:
Thanks! I didn't realize Granby had two breeding pairs, and Simsa is likely from Pittsburgh since I can't find any other "Simsa's" in the population.
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Simsa is the one from Pittsburgh and has been in Granby since 2013 and is now the chosen breeding partner for Jack now that Mazy is in Toronto. Also there is Jack's great niece Kira not on a breeding rec at all. That is all Granby has at the moment.

Canada's tigers are virtually all descendants of Toronto's late great Tonghua. Mazy and Simsa are the only exceptions.

Jack - son (Tonghua x Tatiana) - Granby
Volga - granddaugther through Jack (Tonghua x Tatiana) - Winnipeg
Youri - grandson through Jack (Tonghua x Tatiana) - Calgary soon to be moving to Winnipeg to chill with his sister.
Samra - granddaugther through Biakal (Tonghua x Pam) - Calgary soon to breed with her cousin because thats sounds like a good idea:rolleyes:
Samkha - great grandson through Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Winnipeg soon to be Calgary to breed
Vasili - great grandson through Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Toronto
Kira -great granddaughter through Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Granby
Mila - great great granddaughter through Vasili and Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Toronto eventually to Cheyenne Mountain Zoo when shes old enough.
 
TZFan said:
Simsa is the one from Pittsburgh and has been in Granby since 2013 and is now the chosen breeding partner for Jack now that Mazy is in Toronto. Also there is Jack's great niece Kira not on a breeding rec at all. That is all Granby has at the moment.

Canada's tigers are virtually all descendants of Toronto's late great Tonghua. Mazy and Simsa are the only exceptions.

Jack - son (Tonghua x Tatiana) - Granby
Volga - granddaugther through Jack (Tonghua x Tatiana) - Winnipeg
Youri - grandson through Jack (Tonghua x Tatiana) - Calgary soon to be moving to Winnipeg to chill with his sister.
Samra - granddaugther through Biakal (Tonghua x Pam) - Calgary soon to breed with her cousin because thats sounds like a good idea:rolleyes:
Samkha - great grandson through Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Winnipeg soon to be Calgary to breed
Vasili - great grandson through Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Toronto
Kira -great granddaughter through Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Granby
Mila - great great granddaughter through Vasili and Kita (Tonghua x Pam) - Toronto eventually to Cheyenne Mountain Zoo when shes old enough.
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Yikes! Is there a reason that no new blood has been imported to stop the related breeding pairs?
 
Umm I wish there was. I really do. Getting big cats across the border is way easier than hoofstock or primates. Right now I think Covid has a marginal role to play. Most of these moves though predate covid so... yeah... I dont know why we cant get new blood into each of the zoos, except Granby which has a breeding female who is as of yet unrelated but heck retire Jack and get another male there too. At least give everyone 1 new animal. By the way Mazy shouldnt be bred again so I didnt count her. She's 14 with a 6 month old cub so I doubt she will be bred again at 16.

Toronto is also still sitting on 2 Amur tigers (maybe) from a closed zoo in Quebec. They have been trapped here by Covid for the last 2 years. The girls are heading to a sanctuary in the US when possible if they havent gone yet. Their genetics are totally unknown so the SSP wouldn't take a risk on them being a Amur/Bengal mix.
 
Polar bear fan said:
Yikes! Is there a reason that no new blood has been imported to stop the related breeding pairs?
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I'm wondering if the genetics being highly represented has deterred the SSP from recommending individuals of that lineage from breeding? I'm also curious if it is difficult to bring animals from the United States into Canada. (I know it is in the private trade, but I don't know if it is easier for AZA-accredited facilities.)
 
TZFan said:
Umm I wish there was. I really do. Getting big cats across the border is way easier than hoofstock or primates. Right now I think Covid has a marginal role to play. Most of these moves though predate covid so... yeah... I dont know why we cant get new blood into each of the zoos, except Granby which has a breeding female who is as of yet unrelated but heck retire Jack and get another male there too. At least give everyone 1 new animal. By the way Mazy shouldnt be bred again so I didnt count her. She's 14 with a 6 month old cub so I doubt she will be bred again at 16.

Toronto is also still sitting on 2 Amur tigers (maybe) from a closed zoo in Quebec. They have been trapped here by Covid for the last 2 years. The girls are heading to a sanctuary in the US when possible if they havent gone yet. Their genetics are totally unknown so the SSP wouldn't take a risk on them being a Amur/Bengal mix.
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That’s insane, it’s not like the US population doesn’t have anybody it could spare, there are plenty of young and old individuals who could be easily harnessed for that population. Columbus and Milwaukee have had so many cubs in recent years. Then throw in all the other facilities with the on and off litter. There’s lots of possibilities. Plus adults like Pavel in Indianapolis who isn’t particularly valuable genetically here.

EsserWarrior said:
I'm wondering if the genetics being highly represented has deterred the SSP from recommending individuals of that lineage from breeding? I'm also curious if it is difficult to bring animals from the United States into Canada. (I know it is in the private trade, but I don't know if it is easier for AZA-accredited facilities.)
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This makes a lot of sense, do you know if there are any relatives of these animals in the USA population. That being said, would the cousin pair then be a non SSP pairing? Wouldn’t they be reprimanded by AZA (assuming they are AZA)?
 
Polar bear fan said:
That’s insane, it’s not like the US population doesn’t have anybody it could spare, there are plenty of young and old individuals who could be easily harnessed for that population. Columbus and Milwaukee have had so many cubs in recent years. Then throw in all the other facilities with the on and off litter. There’s lots of possibilities. Plus adults like Pavel in Indianapolis who isn’t particularly valuable genetically here.


This makes a lot of sense, do you know if there are any relatives of these animals in the USA population. That being said, would the cousin pair then be a non SSP pairing? Wouldn’t they be reprimanded by AZA (assuming they are AZA)?
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You are right. there are definitely a lot of surplus individuals that could be sent up to Canada. Who knows why it hasn’t happened yet, we can only hope it happens sooner than later.

I believe there are a number of animals descending from Tonghua in the US. An example is Sputnik of Omaha. I’m not 100% whether Winnipeg is AZA or not but I’m pretty sure they are and they’re breeding pair is probably an SSP pairing. Many species are intentionally inbred to sustain the population for a couple more years and it shouldn’t be a problem if the inbred cub(s) are bred to an unrelated individual.
 
EsserWarrior said:
I'm wondering if the genetics being highly represented has deterred the SSP from recommending individuals of that lineage from breeding? I'm also curious if it is difficult to bring animals from the United States into Canada. (I know it is in the private trade, but I don't know if it is easier for AZA-accredited facilities.)
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Oh believe me that stupid international border is so aggravating to deal with. Its easier for zoos then private people but still there is a determination on both sides to prevent any disease from crossing the border. We waited nearly 4 years to get male Masai giraffe Kiko. I would love it if we dealt with wildlife as a whole continent.

I would love to say overrepresentation was the issue. Its not if they are breeding Samkha to Sarma. Samkha, Vasili and Kira are definitely overrepresented. I get breeding Vasili. Youri is her son and they want to pair Jack and Simsa so it was Samkha or Vasili. Mazy had only one more shot to breed so you take the shot since she is still somewhat valuable. Sarma isnt that much less valuable but I am sure you could send her to the US to breed where she would have more options. She's 10 so you could get 2 litters out of her in the US, maybe even sneak in a 3rd. In Canada it will be one and done because where are we going to put another cub and who could we breed it to? Ok well if Simsa and Jack have a male... sure or back up the tree to Youri.

Rather than repost the family tree and confuse you, here is the link so you can see how Tonghua's genetics shake out. Hint he went from being a founder from Zurich to well represented in 2-3 generations. Just keyword search Tonghua as its a long long post.

Family Trees of Toronto Zoo Animals [Toronto Zoo]

Even sending someone up though has to bring fresher genetics than grandcubs or great grandcubs of Tonghua.
 
TZFan said:
Oh believe me that stupid international border is so aggravating to deal with. Its easier for zoos then private people but still there is a determination on both sides to prevent any disease from crossing the border. We waited nearly 4 years to get male Masai giraffe Kiko. I would love it if we dealt with wildlife as a whole continent.

I would love to say overrepresentation was the issue. Its not if they are breeding Samkha to Sarma. Samkha, Vasili and Kira are definitely overrepresented. I get breeding Vasili. Youri is her son and they want to pair Jack and Simsa so it was Samkha or Vasili. Mazy had only one more shot to breed so you take the shot since she is still somewhat valuable. Sarma isnt that much less valuable but I am sure you could send her to the US to breed where she would have more options. She's 10 so you could get 2 litters out of her in the US, maybe even sneak in a 3rd. In Canada it will be one and done because where are we going to put another cub and who could we breed it to? Ok well if Simsa and Jack have a male... sure or back up the tree to Youri.

Rather than repost the family tree and confuse you, here is the link so you can see how Tonghua's genetics shake out. Hint he went from being a founder from Zurich to well represented in 2-3 generations. Just keyword search Tonghua as its a long long post.

Family Trees of Toronto Zoo Animals [Toronto Zoo]

Even sending someone up though has to bring fresher genetics than grandcubs or great grandcubs of Tonghua.
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Wow, the amount of knowledge you have about practically every species is very very impressive! I really enjoyed reading your family tree thread and as a matter of fact I used that thread as a source to find info about the Amurs up in Canada and it also helped with my Sumatran population list! Also one question, how do you find out about future transfers and things like that?
 
Thank you my deep dive into Toronto animals took me 8 months but I think it was 8 months well spent. I wish I could go back and shorten down the lists into collapsible sections like I eventually started doing. It would have been more manageable that way.

Obsessive amounts of research.
 
Zoo fanatic said:
Bronx has one more named Josie I’m not sure but I wanna say it’s a male
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This is what I have for Bronx at the moment:

Bronx Zoo - 4.1
1.0 Julian (Bachuta x Katharina) May 22nd, 2010 at Bronx Zoo
1.0 Josie (Bachuta x Katharina) May 22nd, 2010 at Bronx Zoo
1.0 Anikan (Bachuta x Katharina) May 22nd, 2010 at Bronx Zoo
1.0 Aldan (Sasha x Katharina) April 19th, 2012 at Bronx Zoo
0.1 Aurora (Sasha x Isabella) July 7th, 2016 at Omaha’s Henry Doorly Zoo
 
Animals R AMAZING! said:
This is what I have for Bronx at the moment:

Bronx Zoo - 4.1
1.0 Julian (Bachuta x Katharina) May 22nd, 2010 at Bronx Zoo
1.0 Josie (Bachuta x Katharina) May 22nd, 2010 at Bronx Zoo
1.0 Anikan (Bachuta x Katharina) May 22nd, 2010 at Bronx Zoo
1.0 Aldan (Sasha x Katharina) April 19th, 2012 at Bronx Zoo
0.1 Aurora (Sasha x Isabella) July 7th, 2016 at Omaha’s Henry Doorly Zoo
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I know it probably doesn’t make a difference to you but I believe Anikan and Josie alternate on the monorail habitat and Aldan, Aurora, and Julian are exhibited at Tiger Mountain because I watched a bunch of monorail yt videos to listen for their names and in videos in the last 3 months I have only heard the names Anikan and Josie for Amurs on the monorail.
 
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