North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

Nile Hippo Expert said:
Usually captive-born bull elephants are transferred out at about 8-14 years of age from my experience for breeding or bachelor herd purposes and Kedar is now 20, and as of this moment, Indy has no immediate plans to transfer him out. Indianapolis does have the space for a bull, which he is the only one there besides the year-old calf. They also only have one breeding age cow who just gave birth to Jabari 16 months ago, so there are no real possibilities of breeding right now (though she is unrelated to him and can possibly breed together in a few years either naturally or through AI). I do suspect that once their three older girls pass, they may exercise the chance to bring in some younger cows, and potentially a new bull or two and start a breeding herd, and they will decide Kedar's fate then. I am however, hopeful that Kedar does become a proven breeder (AI or natural at any zoo) or bachelor mentor in some way in the future at Indy or whatever zoo me might move to, but for now, I believe the plan is for him is to just stay in Indianapolis.
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Imo my hopes are low for Kedar. Indianapolis has relied solely on AI for years and thus Kedar has not had any bull mentors or witnessed natural breeding. They've been trying to breed him with Zahara for years iirc and it's amounted to nothing. Him breeding would be ideal for the facility, but atp they need a proven bull onsite so that Jabari and other bull calves aren't also left socially stunted.
As for them bringing in more cows, I find that unlikely unless they lose all of their older girls before Zahara has a daughter or two. At her age she is more than capable of building up her own matriline, and with their limited capacity having two breeding matrilines feels too ambitious.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
he is the only one there besides the year-old calf. They also only have one breeding age cow who just gave birth to Jabari 16 months ago, so there are no real possibilities of breeding right now (though she is unrelated to him and can possibly breed together in a few years either naturally or through AI).
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I knew they have the space to house let alone strength to withstand bulls. I misread your text for a moment thinking it was not bull proof despite maclean living abt 20 years ago, and kedar maturing, lol. And they mos def have the space for multigenerational groups. The habitat does look to have lovely outdoor spaces, but I think they should improve the barn with sand substrate and provide indoor viewing for all visitors year round.
 
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The Horse Boy said:
I knew they have the space to house let alone strength to withstand bulls. I misread your text for a moment thinking it was not bull proof despite maclean living abt 20 years ago, and kedar maturing, lol. And they mos def have the space for multigenerational groups. The habitat does look to have lovely outdoor spaces, but I think they should improve the barn with sand substrate and provide indoor viewing for all visitors year round.
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I think you should go work for zoos, especially the administration and tell them your ideas and report back to us. ;) it is good that you are curious about this.
 
ZCChip said:
I think you should go work for zoos, especially the administration and tell them your ideas and report back to us. ;) it is good that you are curious about this.
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I always wanted to work at a US AZA-Accredited zoo, esp. one with a lovely elephant facility. But since I live in Austin TX it's a little disappointing that they have not opened one yet. With all the population and tech boom of the past decade now, I think it would be marvelous if they opened one. I personally think they should have a humongous enclosure and barn for a herd of elephants once it's planned.

I suppose if they gather enough funds and board meetings, they could glady redevelop their current "sanctuary for abandoned or mistreated exotics" in the hill country region just outside it into a world class aza zoo with modern husbandry practices. And since much of the land surrounding it is undeveloped, they should plenty of space to house elephants the best way possible. I'm quite surprised residents have not publicly discussed it, as I think most austin residents have positive opinions on at least certified zoos.
 
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The Horse Boy said:
I always wanted to work at a US AZA-Accredited zoo, esp. one with a lovely elephant facility. But since I live in Austin TX it's a little disappointing that they have not opened one yet. With all the population and tech boom of the past decade now, I think it would be marvelous if they opened one. I personally think they should have a humongous enclosure and barn for a herd of elephants once it's planned.

I suppose if they gather enough funds and board meetings, they could glady redevelop their current "sanctuary for abandoned or mistreated exotics" in the hill country region just outside it into a world class aza zoo with modern husbandry practices. And since much of the land surrounding it is undeveloped, they should plenty of space to house elephants the best way possible. I'm quite surprised residents have not publicly discussed it, as I think most austin residents have positive opinions on at least certified zoos.
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There are many opportunities. Look for internships, elephants are classified very high so you would need to start at the bottom somewhere. Like a petting zoo or a lesser dangerous animal like rodents, or the like.

TES has internship opportunities. Careers and Internships - The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee I am sure the Austin Zoo has some internship/volunteer opportunities.
 
ZCChip said:
There are many opportunities. Look for internships, elephants are classified very high so you would need to start at the bottom somewhere. Like a petting zoo or a lesser dangerous animal like rodents, or the like.

TES has internship opportunities. Careers and Internships - The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee I am sure the Austin Zoo has some internship/volunteer opportunities.
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I'm contemplating a more guide/docent type position over being a dedicated keeper with specific breeds, I'm pretty sure it's a safer job and I believe that can be done from volunteers and interns. It should correspond more to my high knowledge of animals and good zoos anyway. But we have all discussed that about all of these zoos, at least the states, manage elephants through protected contact which involves working with the animals between special barriers rather than directly in their space. It's far safer and more humane if you ask me. I think keepers also work with big cats, great apes, monkeys, hippos and bears thru that method.

With the last point being said, it does leave me wondering what they are going to do with the elephant facility at Pittsburgh since they got re-accredited by the AZA in the fall like i said in the thread a few weeks back. Huzzah!
 
What do you think the future of Seneca's elephant program may hold? I know they currently house 3 post reproductive females, but the barn space looks nice with the steel bollards and sand flooring, and could use a small bachelor space.
 
The Horse Boy said:
What do you think the future of Seneca's elephant program may hold? I know they currently house 3 post reproductive females, but the barn space looks nice with the steel bollards and sand flooring, and could use a small bachelor space.
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As much as I love the elephants at the Seneca Park Zoo. I don't think they will hold them for much longer as their current enclosure is very small and outdated, and the zoo doesn't have the space for either an expansion, or a new complex. They wouldn't be able to continue with elephants even if they wanted to.
 
ZooNew2004 said:
As much as I love the elephants at the Seneca Park Zoo. I don't think they will hold them for much longer as their current enclosure is very small and outdated, and the zoo doesn't have the space for either an expansion, or a new complex. They wouldn't be able to continue with elephants even if they wanted to.
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That's fair. I don't think that zoo even needs to hold them long term if that's the case. Can than enclosure hold bulls though?
 
The Horse Boy said:
How far is rosamond from there? That could be a happy compromise for Rochester residents if they did go out of pachyderms eventually
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As the trend has shown with many facilities that have transitioned out of holding elephants, Seneca Park Zoo's current elephant exhibit will probably be repurposed to hold rhinos once their last elephant cow dies.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
As the trend has shown with many facilities that have transitioned out of holding elephants, Seneca Park Zoo's current elephant exhibit will probably be repurposed to hold rhinos once their last elephant cow dies.
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I have saw their current enclosure is about 0.8 acres when i measured it on google maps satellite. That's far more suitable for rhinos than elephants imo. 2 acres should be the main minimum for elephant spaces. There are even many fantabulous ones measuring between 2 through 2.5 like houston, smithsonian (excluding the elephant trail), elephant odyssey, cleveland (have not it person yet but would love to), zootampa and st louis. And many of the really good ones in the country are more roundabout 3-4 acres like dallas (excluding giraffe and hoofstock space they appear to have not coexistence together much since the swazis arrived and they started their breeding program), birmingham, Fresno, okc, and Oregon. The only very nice looking space that measures to about 1 acre would be the audubon zoo in new orleans as they made that new enclosure from scratch 10 years ago, and could fit about 4 bulls for bachelors when their old ladies pass to my knowledge.
 
I wonder if there are any European zoos that house so many elephants they could use a herd import to American facilities just like Dublin and Rotterdam with Asians did in the past two years.
 
The Horse Boy said:
I wonder if there are any European zoos that house so many elephants they could use a herd import to American facilities just like Dublin and Rotterdam with Asians did in the past two years.
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Almost certianly there are European facilities that could send some cows/young bulls to the US. There have been a few names bounced around for potential Asian imports, Rani and Savani at Leipzig, Damini and Tarli at Woburn, a few Pairi Daiza cows, really any Radza sons, etc. I'm sure there are more possibilities. The primary issue is that there aren't really any facilities that could take them in. LA cannot receive imports for a reason I'm not entirely sure on, Tulsa doesn't seem to focused on breeding and San Antonio hasn't even broken ground. A few bull imports would be nice though, Denver could probably take on one or two if they move Billy and Bodhi out on their reccomendations. I'm still all for an import from Asia when a new complex opens to provide with some fresh blood to the population.

Im much less familiar with the African population in Europe, but there are absoloutly adolescent bulls that could and should be moved over to the states to breed the wildborn cows here.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Almost certianly there are European facilities that could send some cows/young bulls to the US. There have been a few names bounced around for potential Asian imports, Rani and Savani at Leipzig, Damini and Tarli at Woburn, a few Pairi Daiza cows, really any Radza sons, etc. I'm sure there are more possibilities. The primary issue is that there aren't really any facilities that could take them in. LA cannot receive imports for a reason I'm not entirely sure on, Tulsa doesn't seem to focused on breeding and San Antonio hasn't even broken ground. A few bull imports would be nice though, Denver could probably take on one or two if they move Billy and Bodhi out on their reccomendations. I'm still all for an import from Asia when a new complex opens to provide with some fresh blood to the population.

Im much less familiar with the African population in Europe, but there are absoloutly adolescent bulls that could and should be moved over to the states to breed the wildborn cows here.
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If the US were to import African bulls from Europe I think the most likely options would be Coco, Janu, and Uli, considering they are from well represented lines in Europe, and with them living in the UK it would be easier to transport them to the US
 
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Frankie_number_1_fan said:
LA cannot receive imports for a reason I'm not entirely sure on, Tulsa doesn't seem to focused on breeding and San Antonio hasn't even broken ground. A few bull imports would be nice though,
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I think the reason LA can't take imports is something pertinent to the gold darn city politicians and activists who incessantly nitpick on the exhibit and yearn for it to discontinue. It would be a perfect place to recieve a new herd given that a lot of people also seemingly really like the exhibit. Tulsa and San Antonio would work as great candidates as well. I presume SA hasn't started yet is cause they are finishing work on building the new gorilla area and event center which are slated to open this summer. Once these two are completed, I'm sure they'll have news to trumpet about regarding elephants. Oregon Albuquerque Miami Audubon and Dickerson Park are other US contenders to use an Asian import.

Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Im much less familiar with the African population in Europe, but there are absoloutly adolescent bulls that could and should be moved over to the states to breed the wildborn cows here.
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I know Bioparc Valencia in Spain has numerous young cows with an amount of births starting to take off. Caberceno in the same country has a massive number of animals to export to America. Hodenhagen in Germany Howletts in the UK and Böras in Sweden have an impressive breeding record. And these last two have young individuals that could go to the US. North Carolina Indianapolis Pittsburgh Maryland, Atlanta Milwaukee Toledo Cleveland Rodger Williams Brookfield Memphis Jacksonville Cheyenne Mountain, or even Dallas and Fresno would be all the African holders to take potential transfers from Europe.
 
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