North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

The Horse Boy said:
It gladdens me to see that Mabu may no longer be an option for breeding bulls at Tucson. I do feel he should go to another zoo in a 2 or so years after reimpregnating the two cows there. Dallas (they'd most likely have to move tendaji out first as i believe they are able to hold only 1 mature bull at max), omaha, pittsburgh, north carolina, zootampa, and Indianapolis would all be great choices for him. Batir, Zahara, and the Pittsburgh and Tampa girls need to be impregnated by a prolific bull asap, and mabu can gladly fix that.
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North Carolina would be out as they don’t have a breedable cow but it would be a good facility for Mabu to take a break. .
 
ZCChip said:
North Carolina would be out as they don’t have a breedable cow but it would be a good facility for Mabu to take a break. .
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If he were to retire from breeding, temporary or permanent, then Cleveland, Tyler, San Diego Elephant Odyssey, Birmingham, Cheyenne Mountain, Rodger Williams, Milwaukee, Maryland, Atlanta, and the future Memphis Jacksonville and Brookfield habitats would also be options. The prob with NC is that they already have a couple non breeding bulls.
 
ZCChip said:
Yes, Billy is the main gripe but his genetics are unrepresented in our pool so we desperately need him to breed a cow or two to produce offspring. Tina could go to a sanctuary and make room for breeding age, preferably a mother and daughter(s), to come in for Billy. But they may have to export from Australia or Europe since the supply of such is extremely limited at this point as there is no plans to release any cows. Unless African Lion Country would be willing export a few.
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LA should, afaik, be able to accomodate additional cows alongside Tina. They even could attempt to introduce her to the younger cows for company.
Also it is to my understanding that LA cannot receive imports, so African Lion Safari or any other cows not already in the US wouldn't be a possibility. Although I do not know why this is, it has been mentioned before.
That essentially leaves White Oak, which almost certianly could afford to send over a few cows. They have a decent few of mother-daughter pairs they could send over, even though the move from Florida to LA isn't exactly the closest.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
LA should, afaik, be able to accomodate additional cows alongside Tina. They even could attempt to introduce her to the younger cows for company.
Also it is to my understanding that LA cannot receive imports, so African Lion Safari or any other cows not already in the US wouldn't be a possibility. Although I do not know why this is, it has been mentioned before.
That essentially leaves White Oak, which almost certianly could afford to send over a few cows. They have a decent few of mother-daughter pairs they could send over, even though the move from Florida to LA isn't exactly the closest.
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that is also possible with Tina and younger cows. But why the LA Zoo can’t take imports? Would White Oak be willing to depart with a few cows? I doubt it but that would be nice.
 
ZCChip said:
that is also possible with Tina and younger cows. But why the LA Zoo can’t take imports? Would White Oak be willing to depart with a few cows? I doubt it but that would be nice.
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People on zoochat have concluded that shanti's fam in Houston would need a herd split to another us asian facility in dire need of breeding, because that zoo has an ever-growing herd. LA would be a good choice as the interstate 10 starts in Los Angeles going east and Houston is one of its metro areas. If billy does lose interest in breeding either way, they can bring in another bull as backup. Doc, albert, samson at oregon, ongard, hugo, tucker at houston, or any of the young Denver bulls would be good options.
 
ZCChip said:
that is also possible with Tina and younger cows. But why the LA Zoo can’t take imports? Would White Oak be willing to depart with a few cows? I doubt it but that would be nice.
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I'm not entirely sure of the details, but there are apparently legal constrains in place that prevent receiving imports.

The Horse Boy said:
People on zoochat have concluded that shanti's fam in Houston would need a herd split to another us asian facility in dire need of breeding, because that zoo has an ever-growing herd. LA would be a good choice
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The main issue with that idea is that Shanti's line would not be moving for the better part of a decade, and that isn't a plausible solution to LA's issue imo. With Kirby relatively fresh on the ground and Houston's goal being to breed Joy next year, that places a potential move at the earliest in 2028.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I'm not entirely sure of the details, but there are apparently legal constrains in place that prevent receiving imports.


The main issue with that idea is that Shanti's line would not be moving for the better part of a decade, and that isn't a plausible solution to LA's issue imo. With Kirby relatively fresh on the ground and Houston's goal being to breed Joy next year, that places a potential move at the earliest in 2028.
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More or less around that time should be when Tina passes and la could use some new breeding individuals. I don't think acquiring new elephants for la has to be now but it should be done in the next few years. Another option for shanti's herd could be san antonio which should also be constructed around said timeframe, if they decide to do breeding herds. San Antonio is only about 3 1/2 hours west of Houston on I 10, so that should not be a stressful move for them. I do think Houston is about to reach maximum capacity with their herd. So they should do something about that soon.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I'm not entirely sure of the details, but there are apparently legal constrains in place that prevent receiving imports.
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That law sounds very silly to me. They should totally overhaul it in my opinion. I feel it's relevant to these stupid activists and city politicians that also campaign for the zoo to give up their elephant program which is ludicrous
 
The Horse Boy said:
More or less around that time should be when Tina passes and la could use some new breeding individuals. I don't think acquiring new elephants for la has to be now but it should be done in the next few years. Another option for shanti's herd could be san antonio which should also be constructed around said timeframe, if they decide to do breeding herds. San Antonio is only about 3 1/2 hours west of Houston on I 10, so that should not be a stressful move for them. I do think Houston is about to reach maximum capacity with their herd. So they should do something about that soon.
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The issue is that Tina might not have that time to wait. With her age and background she could, frankly, drop dead tomorrow. It is impossible to guess. It's just a huge gamble for LA to continue without new indivuduals fully knowing Tina is well beyond the life expectancy for her species. The second Tina dies they might as well kiss any hope of utilizing him in the SSP goodbye, ARAs are just waiting for the oppertunity to back LA into a corner.
 
You guys aware that the dallas zoo plans on adding an indoor 'elephant great room', to their habitat in the future? Various web pages about their new master have confirmation about it alongside redevolping the former monorail area into a safari walking trail and rhinos we live in part of that area. I also visited the zoo a month ago and spoke to various staff members about that plan, as well as asking all of them if the outdoor and barn fencing could withstand bull elephants, and they also confirmed it.
 
I mentioned this in the african elephant population news thread, but I was speculating potential facilities that mabu could move to after he keeps breeding the cow duo at fresno in the next few years because reid park has another new bull now. I think Dallas Indianapolis NC Omaha Pittsburgh and Zootampa would all be great candidates if he were to continue breeding. NC and Indianapolis both have 1 breeding aged cow (Batir and Zahara) that need to be naturally bred asap, and so do the younger girls at pittsburgh and Tampa. Mabu would be one of these bulls to gladly rectify tht situation.
 
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Just some speculation on the current 10 announced pregnancies within the population, 6 African and 4 Asian

Confirmed Pregnancies
LA Luna (Maclean × Donna) at Disney Animal Kingdom is due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Kianga (Jackson × Donna) at Disneys Animal Kingdom is Due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Simunye (WILD × WILD) at Sedgwick County Zoo is due in April of 2025
LA Talia (WILD × WILD) at Sedgwick County Zoo is due in April of 2025
LA Xolani (WILD × WILD) at Sedgwick County Zoo is due in May of 2025
LA Arusi (WILD × WILD) at Sedgwick County Zoo is due in June of 2025
LA Zuberi (WILD × WILD) at Sedgwick County Zoo is due in Mid/Late 2025

EM Rose-Tu (Hugo × Me-tu) at Oregon Zoo due early or late 2025
EM Achara (Rex × Asha) at the Oklahoma City Zoo is pregnant and due in the Summer of 2025
EM Sunny (Charlie × Sally) at Columbus Zoo is Pregnant and due in mid to late 2025
EM Phoebe (Motek × Warda) at Columbus Zoo is Pregnant and due in mid to late 2025

Speculative pregnancies
LA Khosi (Mabhulane × Umngani) at San Diego Zoo Safari Park due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Phakamile (Mabhulane × Umoya) at San Diego Zoo Safari Park due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Qinisa (Mabhulane × Swazi) at San Diego Zoo Safari Park due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Zuri (Jackson × Christie) at Kansas City Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Zola (WILD × WILD) at Dallas Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Donna (WILD × WILD) - unlikely but possible at Disney Animal Kingdom due sometime in 2025/2026

EM Bluebonnet (Groucho × Rasha) at Fort Worth Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Mali (Indy × Targa) at Rosemond Gifford Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Maliha (Raja × Ellie) at St. Louis Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Nhi Linh (Timber × Trong Nhi) at Smithsonian National Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
 
With Musi moving to the zoo around Feb/March last year, the latest we'd probably see calves from SDZSP should anyone there be pregnant is December 2025 - February 2026. I would assume earlier though!
 
Mr.Ivory said:
LA Zola (WILD × WILD) at Dallas Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
LA Donna (WILD × WILD) - unlikely but possible at Disney Animal Kingdom due sometime in 2025/2026
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I find both these cows unlikely. Zola has been an unwilling breeder for years and while I suppose it's possible for a successful AI on her she's at an age now where her having a calf is a stretch. I would love to be wrong on this though as another wildborn cow breeding would be ideal.
As for Donna, considering she hasn't had a calf in pushing a decade now I'd say they probably have shifted gears away from breeding her. With three daughters and a granddaughter now it appears they're focusing on the younger girls.

Mr.Ivory said:
EM Bluebonnet (Groucho × Rasha) at Fort Worth Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Mali (Indy × Targa) at Rosemond Gifford Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Maliha (Raja × Ellie) at St. Louis Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
EM Nhi Linh (Timber × Trong Nhi) at Smithsonian National Zoo due sometime in 2025/2026
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Definitely agree here. If Maliha is pregnant I'd say she'd probably be due in 2026 since they announced pregnancies fairly early there and if she was due in 2025 they almost certianly would've announced.

I'll add to this list and say it is fairly plausible that Belle at Forth Worth, Tupelo at Houston and Trong Nhi at National are also pregnant between 2025/26.
 
HawkAlot said:
Priya at STL too - I wouldn't be all too surprised.
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I wonder if raja has been breeding any of the st louis cows lately. No big deal if not as he should be sent to columbus this year to breed their cows, just like they announced last December. Earlier on they said that they would immediately replace him with samudra from Oregon as the breeding bull, but I'm not sure if it's still planned now.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I find both these cows unlikely. Zola has been an unwilling breeder for years and while I suppose it's possible for a successful AI on her she's at an age now where her having a calf is a stretch. I would love to be wrong on this though as another wildborn cow breeding would be ideal.
As for Donna, considering she hasn't had a calf in pushing a decade now I'd say they probably have shifted gears away from breeding her. With three daughters and a granddaughter now it appears they're focusing on the younger girls.


Definitely agree here. If Maliha is pregnant I'd say she'd probably be due in 2026 since they announced pregnancies fairly early there and if she was due in 2025 they almost certianly would've announced.

I'll add to this list and say it is fairly plausible that Belle at Forth Worth, Tupelo at Houston and Trong Nhi at National are also pregnant between 2025/26.
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Also Bluebonnet at Fort Worth is a possibility, as she had a calf last in fall 2021 whereas Belle had hers in early 2023, but she's also a possibility.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Why would an AI pregnancy be unlikely? Obviously it isn't an overly successful procedure but Maliha was/is surely being AI'd too like Jade was. Being 18 now it would be a strong push for her to have a calf asap.
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I didn't say an AI pregnancy was unlikely. I was the one who noted that Priya could very well be pregnant as well. What I was clarifying was that any pregnancies right now at STL would have nothing to do with Raja's involvement or natural breeding. Any and all would be through AI.
 
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