Unfortunately, the latest I heard is that the zoo is included.
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter The Horse Boy
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The Horse Boy
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From how I understand it, Tamani would witnessed Sdudla breed the two adult cows at least twice at his natal facility before his short lived bachelor life in Bham, then he got skills he needed to learn successful bull life before coming to KC, so he should have aquired some mating behaviors by now. Re. the cows, the only one I can see producing offspring would be Zuri as she's at a much appropriate age range for first time motherhood. At this point I'd frankly throw Christie out the window: her daughter Zuri is the only she's ever produced, and it was an AI birth, considering the facility wasn't bull-proof or big enough for bull solitude, hence I don't think Christie has been around a truckload bulls in her lifetime since coming to Hogle in 1988 at only 2- also the fact that she's almost 20 years older than Tamani, so i think she'd be too reluctant to let him breed her if she hasn't been around proper breeding scenes. But I still keep my fingers crossed that Tamani impregnated Zuri.
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The inexperience of the cows can play a part in this as well. Inexperienced cow (with her inexperienced mother) plus an inexperienced bull can result in nothing. If they do not like the bull they will run off. Or in another case, Zuri may be receptive, but Christie may not allow it. The facility has so many post productive cows that makes me wonder if Tamani is there for socialization purposes only?
Frankie_number_1_fan
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I'm definitely inclined to agree. Tamani was moved out of Tampa before Sdudla arrived, missing out on any experience with natural breeding. While he did spend time at a bachelor facility and likely is a very socially savvy bull, the odds are not in his favor to know what to do mating-wise. It's really in their best interests to bring in an experienced bull to get Zuri pregnant, and then allow some time for Tamani to try and grasp the ropes.
Callee is close by and can probably get a calf on the ground ASAP.
The Horse Boy
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The issue here is that Callee is Zuri's half brother with them both being Jackson calves, and that could pose an inbreeding risk.
Frankie_number_1_fan
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Yeah he's not an option for Kansas City for sure
There aren't many great options for bulls to send.
As much as I'm not one to push for Mabu, I wouldn't be mad to see him make the trip east. Sdudla and Jabali would also be solid options as well. Even if it's a temporary stay, a bull with breeding experience is key here imo
The Horse Boy
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Any of Mabu's sons in bachelor facilities could also fit the bill. I mean, Mabu's current facility is about less than 2000 miles from KC, and I've often deduced lately that it's a lot easier to move younger adult or adolescent bulls over long thousand miles distances even from coast to coast across America than huge middle aged ones. That isn't to say that it hasn't happened before- Spike's move from Busch Gardens to Smithsonian is the only example off the top of my head. Feel free to correct me if there's more examples of thatYeah he's not an option for Kansas City for sure
As much as I'm not one to push for Mabu, I wouldn't be mad to see him make the trip east. Sdudla and Jabali would also be solid options as well. Even if it's a temporary stay, a bull with breeding experience is key here imo
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Any of Mabu's sons in bachelor facilities could also fit the bill. I mean, Mabu's current facility is about less than 2000 miles from KC, and I've often deduced lately that it's a lot easier to move younger adult or adolescent bulls over long thousand miles distances even from coast to coast across America than huge middle aged ones. That isn't to say that it hasn't happened before- Spike's move from Busch Gardens to Smithsonian is the only example off the top of my head. Feel free to correct me if there's more examples of that
Actually, Spike moved to Florida from Calgary. But he was not the mature bull to move the furthest.
As far I know it was Jack, the African bull. He was a circus elephant with Alan Campbell when Campbell got killed by Tyke in Hawaii. From there he transited to Pennsylvania. There were another African cows with Jack and Tyke, but I had forgotten their names. Tyke was owned by the Hawthorn corporation and Jack was owned by someone else whose name escapes me also.
Frankie_number_1_fan
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You make a good point there as well! They would likely be great breeders in short order given their upbringing. Emanti would be my pick due to his mother's underepresentation but really any of them would do.
I bring up Mabu because it would be a much more ""guaranteed"" shot at success with a proven bull, at least for a first calf. Mabu has to move east sometime anyway since he's ticking boxes pretty rapidly on the west coast, and I can't see him being reccomended to places with large amounts of cows such as Omaha or Sedgwick. He is known for getting cows pregnant in a pinch, and hopefully Zuri would be no different! Perhaps he could make the trip, stay a few years and then make room for another bull, whoever that may be.
Mr.Ivory
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There have also been rumblings of Sdudla leaving Tampa as well according to E Maximus, so perhaps Kansas City could be a good location for a short breeding trip, before heading to another facility maybe, San Deigo.
The Horse Boy
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As Frankie_number_1_Fan discussed on this very thread last month, E Maximus has some of the most credible information on elephant related posts and threads regarding the facilities and population scenarios because they have explicitly declared to have worked with them in the past. You can choose be skeptical of their info or not, but every message they made are guaranteed to be 100%.
When I was at Fresno Chaffee Zoo earlier this year, I was told by their elephant keepers that their intention was to breed Mabu again with both Nolwazi and Amahle. Unless the plan has changed the zoo does intend to breed him again with both of their adult females successfully within the next year or so.
When did E Maximus post this? Not saying he didn’t but I’m just curious what thread they shared this in?
The Horse Boy
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@John Marchwick in case you didn't see it, it was on this thread at the start of July when we were discussing and speculating the slow breeding problems at Tampa.
Mr.Ivory
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The Horse Boy
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I'm overjoyed Mabu is still interested in breeding the two Fresno girls let alone breeding at all. Fingers crossed that Nowalzi and her daughter will subsequently produce a sizeable family unit of cows
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Why…why would he no longer be interested in breeding? Mabu is in his absolute prime right now, and is one of the nations most virile and successful breeding bulls. I don’t think there has been even a singular drop of concern that he has lost interest in breeding cows.
The Horse Boy
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Most of the captive African bulls i know breed the most effectively in their young adult years. Forgive me for stereotyping
Frankie_number_1_fan
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NA doesn't have a fabulous track record of mature bulls staying in breeding situations (or many naturally breeding bulls at all for that matter).
Mabu is the oldest African bull currently set up to breed at the moment iirc so I can see where the assumption may come from, but that doesn’t mean that all mature bulls lose interest in breeding. From what I can see it looks like the rumors about Sdudla "loosing interest" were just that, and it's a space issue that is keeping him from breeding. Similar situation with Jack, who is simply with non-reproductive cows right now. Mature wild bulls Mabu's age are breeding powerhouses and often continue to be for a decade or more later.
I mean, look over to the Asian population, bulls into their mid-late 50s have continued to produce calves naturally.
Management choices =/= a behavioral statistic.