Wisp O' Mist
Well-Known Member
San Diego were also behind importing him to the US from Australia in the first place.
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation
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San Diego were also behind importing him to the US from Australia in the first place.
thanks!! I had been so busy (still am with the papers for for my masters program and applying for jobs) so I haven’t been on the top of this as of late.
yes. And the platypus. I remember now.
San Diego does indeed own Ongard. He was sent to Miami as they were a facility that was able to accommodate an additional young bull at the time, and with the intention of him breeding there one day. The plan has always been to acquire cows for him following the passing of their older individuals (and use him for AI in the meantime). Afaik this is still the case.
He is just owned by them, so they have say as to where he goes. As per my statement above, he was moved to Miami for breeding purposes so San Diego would've been fairly confident in Miami eventually becoming a breeding facility if they chose to send Ongard (a very valuable bull) over there.
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
Miami WAS a breeding facility in the 80s and 90s.
Yeah but they obviously aren't at the moment with one post reproductive cow. With that in mind, there's no reason why they can't be one again in the not too distant future!
I thought some might be interested to know one of the reasons that Miami was a chosen location for Ongard. One of the reasons explained to me by a Melbourne keeper was that Miami was one of the few zoos in the US where he had the opportunity to socialise with an adult bull and also an adult cow and learn important behaviours. They also joked it has a similar climate to Melbourne, which might actually be a valid statement when you consider the scheme of things.
At the time of his arrival he was still fairly young to be thrown into a breeding situation somewhere, and offloading him to a bachelor facility wouldn't have been best for him too as he's obviously going to be transferred elsewhere once he gets to an adequate age and a proper breeding facility is found for him.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
Perhaps it was LA considering a bachalor herd? Or maybe Ongard was being mistaken for African elephant Osh who I'm pretty sure will be joined by young males relatively soon.
there is no way that Ongard is an African? Australia no longer has living Africans that I am aware of.
Not sure. Afaik Miami had plans to become a breeding facility (and I hope they still do, we haven't heard anything otherwise). I don't believe LA has shown any interest in holding a bachelor group too; although that would be very beneficial to the region in the long run.
Yes Ongard is an Asian Elephant.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
NA would definitely benefit from another exclusively bachalor facility down the road.
Right now we have 10+ male calves under the age of ten. Yes several of these will stay with their natal facilities for a while but most will not stay long term. In the next decade we will definitely need a second facility other than Denver. Even if they send out Bodhi, I can't see them sending out any of their other bulls for a while yet and I'm not sure how many boys they can sustainably hold.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I was saying that perhaps you heard Oakland's plans for a bachalor herd with their African Elephant Osh (a similar name and circumstances involved), and mixed it up with Miami wanting a bachelor herd with Ongard.
Denver can’t hold much more bulls than they currently have, so I agree with you on this. Cincy will provide some complacency here; in holding at least their current bulls and future bull calves, but I imagine this will only be similar to Houston (eg. they can still only hold a small number of bulls).
A second designated bachelor facility IS needed. Off the top of my head, I’m not sure there are any stand outs but I guess Tulsa could be one once their older individuals pass.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope Cinci doesn't limit themselves to ONLY calves born at the facility. Imo it seems like such a waste when they HAVE the room and have a friendly natural breeding bull, a socialization experience any zoo would love to give their young boys. Them accepting calves from the region (IE Columbus born bulls) would be likely I'd suppose given their partnership with Sabu currently, plus the transfer isn't a crazy distance or a massive stress on the animals. Even if its just for a few years of their lives (say age 10 to age 17) before moving on its better than nothing and still gives those bulls a place to live and grow outside of their natal herds.
Tulsa could easily be another Cincinnati situation. They've described their new facility as able to care for elephants "of all ages" which to me implies breeding herd intentions.
Which isn't altogether surprising. Most zoos with elephants would rather add to the species AND have cute babies to draw in the public rather than agreeing to the difficult management of multiple bull elephants. I bet Denver would be rolling in money if they got a dollar for every "where are the babies?" question they got lol-
LA, Miami and Tulsa would be amazing bachalor candidates but they all uniquely have a valuable bull on their hands that would be immensely beneficial to the breeding population.
What's unique about Denver too is that it was built specifically to house ONLY males, and as far as I know, no other facility is that crafted to male elephants. Its a shame some of the zoos that chose to phase out didn't instead dedicate those spaces to housing bulls like Denver did...
I don’t think Cincinnati have the luxury of space compared to Denver though - especially as they’ll be housing the matriarchal herd too. Keep in mind, there’s still Sabu too, so plus the two Dublin boys they’d only have room for a few more (depending on social dynamics and groupings).
I wouldn’t be surprised if LA do become a bachelor facility in the long term. It would be nice if we could have a zoo dedicate themselves like Denver have done to holding bachelor males and implementing facilities purposely built for them. Not really sure of any facilities that are in the right position to do this at the moment - Phoenix maybe who are elephant-less but haven’t expressed interest in holding them again. Dickerson Park and Bronx are two other facilities that are in an interesting position now with ageing individuals.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I believe adding one or two young males down the road would be manageable for them definitely. While Kabir likely could end up as a secondary breeding bull at a facility, Sanjay likely isn't going anywhere. Moving a young male or two of similar age and similar genetic unvalue would guarantee continued socialization for all the bulls involved.
I know Bronx has said that they "will never keep elephants like this again" which likely means they haven't decided whether to phase out or not lol. I think Bronx would be a strong candidate for a bull-focused facility, I'm just not sure they have the space to build a complex large enough for a sizable herd of males. Out of the "options" though, they're the most well-known zoo and would likely be the best candidate for spreading awareness about Elephant bulls.
Bronyx zoo will be amazing for a bachelor group! They are already set up for maybe three with three individual stalls that I know of. Sure the facilities are outdated but it will work!
Phoenix definitely phasing out of elephants. The sole cow rotates her enclosure with a male Indian rhino.
Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
Indian rhino is only supposed to be a temporary species in Phoenix Zoo and after Indu passes, I can see Phoenix starting a new bachelor herd of Asian Elephants.
That's actually my personal idea of what the Bronx should do. Tho, in this, I'm still renovating the backstage space to be more comfortable, modern, and to make rotation a breeze