North American Asian and African Elephant Populations: Discussion and Speculation

I doubt this is news, but just in case: a keeper or employee at Omaha talking to other guests last weekend stated they had around five years before the male calves would need to be sent out and indicated the females would probably stay. He claimed the zoo did not have quite enough space for "ten elephants".
Omaha is evaluating a potential expansion to house more elephants. There was a survey sent to donors a couple months ago. I would assume it would be an expansion to hold a bachelor herd. It did not indicate where they have space to do so.

It would be interesting if they did that at the Safari Park.
 
Is anyone aware of the decade-long problem at the Los Angeles Zoo with there elephants.While we are just focusing on zoos who are well off in terms of breeding the LA zoo only has two remaining elephants on a state of the art exhibit. If The SD zoo can handle 3 elephants on a 2 acre exhibit why can’t Los Angeles handle a breeding herd.
 
Is anyone aware of the decade-long problem at the Los Angeles Zoo with there elephants.While we are just focusing on zoos who are well off in terms of breeding the LA zoo only has two remaining elephants on a state of the art exhibit. If The SD zoo can handle 3 elephants on a 2 acre exhibit why can’t Los Angeles handle a breeding herd.

It is a well versed topic on ZooChat. It is quite bizarre, but do keep in mind that there isn't exactly a huge surplus of cows available for placement at this time. Furthermore, LA may have their reasons with Billy that we as randoms on the internet are unaware of.

I do always find it a bit weird though that given all the scrutiny LA Zoo has received over the years due to their situation, that they haven't just *done something* to put themselves in a better position. They're clearly committed to a future with elephants, have great facilities (which they have plans to expand upon further), and already have some animals. Why they haven't tried harder to either establish themselves as a breeding or bachelor facility in all this time is beyond me. But again, that's just blind wondering on my end. Who knows!
 
Is anyone aware of the decade-long problem at the Los Angeles Zoo with there elephants.While we are just focusing on zoos who are well off in terms of breeding the LA zoo only has two remaining elephants on a state of the art exhibit. If The SD zoo can handle 3 elephants on a 2 acre exhibit why can’t Los Angeles handle a breeding herd.
The question we've all been asking for years unfortunately :p
If the zoo and ssp coordinators were smart, they'd have plans in place now to move breeding-age individuals to the facility asap. With Tina being well over the life expectancy for elephants of her time and Billy's breeding potential rapidly decreasing, the right move would be to bring in new individuals before Tina passes. Their last statement regarding Billy did indicate an end goal to breed him, which I imagine is still in place. Leaving Billy alone again would be a pr disaster as well and I sincerely hope the zoo recognizes that. However, there has been nothing in reality that suggests that any moves are even being discussed, let alone taking place.
 
I do hope with the AZA/SSP supposedly playing hardball now with recommendations for transfers, breeding, etc. that it puts LA in a position to have to get more serious about the whole thing. Even if they're not going to breed, the space would be very useful for up and coming bachelors!
 
I do hope with the AZA/SSP supposedly playing hardball now with recommendations for transfers, breeding, etc. that it puts LA in a position to have to get more serious about the whole thing. Even if they're not going to breed, the space would be very useful for up and coming bachelors!
I agree! At the very least they need to get more elephants there, no matter whether those are breeding females or bachelors. Tina could, to be frank, drop dead tomorrow and LA would find themselves at the center of ARA scrutiny even moreso than usual. They are in a difficult spot though, there really aren't any obvious females or bachelors in need of placement at the moment. The only facility I can see being willing to offhand any would be White Oak, who definitely would have a few cows to spare as well as bulls.
 
Beyond LA, I am so very curious as to what the plans are for places such as Dickerson, Audubon, Little Rock, Miami - they're all getting into LA territory with aging animals and random single younger ones... yet little word on future plans/direction (at least publicly). I sincerely hope they've all got something planned that they're just not telling us, even if it's straight up getting out of elephants.
 
Beyond LA, I am so very curious as to what the plans are for places such as Dickerson, Audubon, Little Rock, Miami - they're all getting into LA territory with aging animals and random single younger ones... yet little word on future plans/direction (at least publicly). I sincerely hope they've all got something planned that they're just not telling us,
I certianly am curious on what these facilities will opt to do. Little Rock expressed a hope to expand their elephant exhibit over a decade ago, but due to an issue purchasing land those plans fell through. They doubtlessly are begining to discuss plans now that they're down to two elephants. Miami also had plans to breed again more recently, but their exibit is doubtlessly too small for such an endeavor.
Dickerson also has such a lengthy history breeding elephants/elephant keeping in general that I find it difficult to think they'd phase out.
I think the ultimate factors will be space, money and available individuals. A few could probably take on bachelor herds in a decade or so when there are more boys in need of holding as well.
 
Going back on some chatter about Ft Worth - has anyone who visits there seen Romeo mixed in with the females at all since Brazos/Travis's births? I would assume at least one of the females is pregnant there by now if so.
While I haven't had personal evidence of Romeo being placed with the girls, Fort Worth stated semi-recently that their hope was to have calves approximately every 2-3 years, which would put both Bluebonnet and Belle as being plausibly pregnant at this point.
 
As mentioned in another thread by @StellarChaser African Lion Safari apparently imported a new bull elephant from Europe earlier this year, but considering no zoo in Europe has announced who the bull that was transferred it's hard to find possible candidates.
My guess would be a Radza son. There are a plethora floating around bachelor holding that could've made the move quietly and the departing facility hasn't announced it. While someone from the Calvin or Motek/Warda lines is a possibility, I still find it an unlikely decision. Charlie Gray may be a controversial figure but I don't think he would be daft enough to import a related bull unless he's shipping cows out.

That being said, this does put ALS in an interesting position. They currently have 8 potential breeding cows with more upcoming. They certainly do not have the barn space for this. With a new bull onsite I have to wonder if this "controversial announcement" has to do with moving some cows from the facility and splitting up some groupings. Many people have speculated that Lily and Emily's matrilines could be shipped out to focus on Natasha's, but it is a possibility that they might be willing to split Natasha and Opal up for whatever reason and that might rear some heads. US facilities like Tulsa and LA would be eager to get cows if they were looking to be offloaded, but if it were an upcoming announcement we should have some inkling of it by now unless they're going to great lengths to keep it hush hush.
 
My guess would be a Radza son. There are a plethora floating around bachelor holding that could've made the move quietly and the departing facility hasn't announced it. While someone from the Calvin or Motek/Warda lines is a possibility, I still find it an unlikely decision. Charlie Gray may be a controversial figure but I don't think he would be daft enough to import a related bull unless he's shipping cows out.

That being said, this does put ALS in an interesting position. They currently have 8 potential breeding cows with more upcoming. They certainly do not have the barn space for this. With a new bull onsite I have to wonder if this "controversial announcement" has to do with moving some cows from the facility and splitting up some groupings. Many people have speculated that Lily and Emily's matrilines could be shipped out to focus on Natasha's, but it is a possibility that they might be willing to split Natasha and Opal up for whatever reason and that might rear some heads. US facilities like Tulsa and LA would be eager to get cows if they were looking to be offloaded, but if it were an upcoming announcement we should have some inkling of it by now unless they're going to great lengths to keep it hush hush.
I thought so as well a bull from the Radza line would be the most likely option, and considering the ever growing number of females at ALS it would make the most sense for Lily's matrilineal to be moved but who knows with ALS, they have been willing to separate daughters from their mothers but considering the controversy I don't think Charlie Gray would want that to happen again.
 
I thought so as well a bull from the Radza line would be the most likely option, and considering the ever growing number of females at ALS it would make the most sense for Lily's matrilineal to be moved but who knows with ALS, they have been willing to separate daughters from their mothers but considering the controversy I don't think Charlie Gray would want that to happen again.
It would be an odd choice to seperate Natasha from her daughter/granddaughters, but I think they would have, albiet slightly, better grounds for doing so than with Emily and Nellie. I can't really think of a scenario that would push them to split the groupings like that when exporting Lily and her five daughters and/or Emily and her inbred daughter would be infinitely easier, but ALS has done odd things to try and offload cows before so it wouldn't totally surprise me. Thats the most "controversial" thing I can think of them doing that would actually be announcement-worthy.
 
It would be an odd choice to seperate Natasha from her daughter/granddaughters, but I think they would have, albiet slightly, better grounds for doing so than with Emily and Nellie. I can't really think of a scenario that would push them to split the groupings like that when exporting Lily and her five daughters and/or Emily and her inbred daughter would be infinitely easier, but ALS has done odd things to try and offload cows before so it wouldn't totally surprise me. Thats the most "controversial" thing I can think of them doing that would actually be announcement-worthy.

In 2020 when it was announced that two females would be moved to Fort Worth I had originally assumed it would be Emily and Gigi as it made the most sense, but if I were LA or Tulsa and I wished to start breeding quickly moving Natasha's matriline would be my best bet, Natasha and Nellie could be bred if Natasha isn't already pregnant before Johnsons move and having four more young females is an added bonus.

It's interesting to point out that on ALS Facebook page and website mentions that 27 calves have been born there, meaning from 2020 four more calves have been born Maya (2021), Abigail (2024), and Olivia (2024), and an unknown calf that may be deceased perhaps born to either Natasha or Opal.
Asian Elephant - African Lion Safari
 
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Between all the controversy surrounding their incident in 2019, the proposed move to Ft Worth in 2020, and the ever looming bills re. elephant captivity/breeding in Canada - I sincerely hope that ALS doesn't do any mother/daughter splitting on the grounds of potential further PR disaster... besides all the other obvious reasons. Even herd/matrilline splitting at this point... while potentially necessary... I can't see that going over well in the court of public opinion.
 
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