North American Asian Elephant Population 2022

Mai Thai said:
Over the last couple months I have been emailing zoos throughout the country to ask about the breeding status of their elephants. After zoos confirming the following elephant are infertile. They are:

1.0 Groucho (Wild × Wild) 1970-00-00 (Denver Zoo)
1.0 Sneezy (Wild × Wild) 1971-00-00 (Tulsa Zoo)
0.1 Maharani (Bandara × Kamala) 1990-07-14 (Smithsonian National Zoo)
0.1 Kirina (Indy × Romani) 1995-06-20

Also I reached out to an old Ringling Brothers Circus Elephant Trainer who still keeps up with the herd and he informed me that 0.1 Shirley (Vance × Mala) 1995-02-19 passed away I am not sure when though. He unfortunately said that he did not know the four bulls that are currently at White Oak.
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That's very interesting, as I don't believe males can actually become infertile. Both Groucho and Sneezy have sired multiple calves before - Groucho last did nine years ago, prior to his transfer to Denver. I also remember they were working with Groucho for AI a few years back, so it's fascinating he's been deemed 'infertile' now. It might be another way for the facility to say they won't be breeding from them going forward.

Maharani makes sense as she hasn't conceived in a decade now; and Kirina hasn't at all, despite being now 27 years of age.
 
This may not be the place to ask, but do you guys know what year Asian elephant(s) were last imported by private owners?
 
csartie said:
This may not be the place to ask, but do you guys know what year Asian elephant(s) were last imported by private owners?
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Australia last imported their Sumatrans in 2019, but aside from that, there hasn’t been any since the 60’s which were made back then by circuses.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Good to know, but I believe the question is about North America, not the whole world.
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Oh yes, my bad I thought this was the Australian thread. :p

But on the topic of NA, I wouldn’t really know - probably back in the 90’s when ALS imported some from Europe.
 
Are Asian elephant subspecies managed separately? I know that Oregon? attempted to breed their Bornean? elephant with a male from another subspecies, so it does occur, but is this a common practice?
 
The SSP is managed on a species level.

However that said, it is primarily mainland (Ssp indicus) animals, with around a quarter to a third of the potential breeding population also containing some degree of Sri Lankan (Ssp maximus) blood as well. There’s only the one Bornean female at Oregon, and although she did get pregnant, she’s likely a non-breeder at this point. There are also two Malaysian bulls (which some consider to be a separate subspecies) that could potentially contribute to the population in the future as well, however only one is currently in a breeding situation.
 
Hyak_II said:
The SSP is managed on a species level.

However that said, it is primarily mainland (Ssp indicus) animals, with around a quarter to a third of the potential breeding population also containing some degree of Sri Lankan (Ssp maximus) blood as well. There’s only the one Bornean female at Oregon, and although she did get pregnant, she’s likely a non-breeder at this point. There are also two Malaysian bulls (which some consider to be a separate subspecies) that could potentially contribute to the population in the future as well, however only one is currently in a breeding situation.
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Where did the Bornean elephant in Oregon come from and did she successfully deliver a surviving calf?

It sounds as if the Malaysian bulls are not important to the future of the population. Are they pure and is this also true of the Sri Lankan elephants?

How many of the Indian elephants are pure? I would be interested in knowing which Sri Lankan elephants are pure, as well.

I think the Malaysian bulls are related, but I could be wrong. As for the one who is in a breeding situation, this is Sabu, right? Have either of them sired a calf who was able to or might breed successfully?

I know this will be considered by many to be the wrong forum for this question, but since I have already started a conversation here, this is where I will ask: How are the Asian elephants in Europe managed? Is it at the subspecies level and what subspecies are present?

Even further derailing the thread, I ask: Are the African elephants in Europe and North America pure African bush elephants?
 
wild boar said:
Where did the Bornean elephant in Oregon come from and did she successfully deliver a surviving calf?

It sounds as if the Malaysian bulls are not important to the future of the population. Are they pure and is this also true of the Sri Lankan elephants?

How many of the Indian elephants are pure? I would be interested in knowing which Sri Lankan elephants are pure, as well.

I think the Malaysian bulls are related, but I could be wrong. As for the one who is in a breeding situation, this is Sabu, right? Have either of them sired a calf who was able to or might breed successfully?

I know this will be considered by many to be the wrong forum for this question, but since I have already started a conversation here, this is where I will ask: How are the Asian elephants in Europe managed? Is it at the subspecies level and what subspecies are present?

Even further derailing the thread, I ask: Are the African elephants in Europe and North America pure African bush elephants?
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Chendra, the Bornean Elephant at the Oregon Zoo was orphaned in Borneo and could not be returned back to the wild so she was moved to Oregon. She has never had a surviving calf.

The so called 'Malaysian bulls' are extremely valuable to the population as neither has any relatives in the population. Sabu and Billy are two of the most genetically valuable elephants in the Americas. The Malaysian bulls are not related at all. Billy has never sired a calf but has shown breeding behavior while Sabu on the other hand has sired two, both passed away, and has been activity breeding at the Cincinnati Zoo for the last couple decades. The Malaysian Elephant is no longer considered to be a subspecies of the Asian Elephant and instead a subpopulation of the mainland Indian Elephants and the Sri Lankan Elephant is currently being researched to figure out if they are the same as Indian Elephant.

For the rest of your question please ask them in the respective threads as this is only for the North American Asian Elephant Population.
 
Here is a list of which what subspecies the Asian Elephants are in the North American Population:

Bornean Elephants
0.1 Chendra (Wild × Wild) 1993-00-00

Sri Lankan Elephants
1.0 Kandula (Calvin × Shanthi) 2001-11-25
0.1 Lucy (Wild × Wild) 1975-00-00
0.1 Bozie (Wild × Wild) 1975-00-00
0.1 Kamala (Wild × Wild) 1975-00-00
0.1 Swarna (Wild × Wild) 1975-00-00
0.1 Maharani (Bandara × Kamala) 1990-07-14

Mainland x Sri Lankan
1.0 Samson (Calvin × Kitty) 1998-05-04
1.0 Albert (Calvin × Lilly) 1998-11-29
1.0 George (Calvin × Phoebe) 1999-10-21
1.0 Johnson (Calvin × Kitty) 2001-04-29
1.0 Baylor (Thailand × Shanti) 2010-05-04
1.0 Bowie (Samson × Bluebonnet) 2013-08-05
1.0 Duncan (Thailand × Shanti) 2014-02-07
1.0 Nelson (Thailand × Shanti) 2020-05-12
0.1 Shanti (Onyx × Bozie) 1990-10-11
0.1 Nellie (Johnson × Natasha) 2013-08-02
0.1 Hannah (Johnson × Lilly) 2014-10-19
0.1 Gigi (George × Emily) 2015-02-24
0.1 Anna May (Johnson × Opal) 2015-05-04
0.1 Rose (Johnson × Natasha) 2016-02-28
0.1 Joy (Thailand × Shanti) 2017-.07-12
0.1 Luna (Johnson × Lilly) 2018-08-17
0.1 Sunita (Johnson × Natasha) 2018-11-14
0.1 Imke (Johnson × Lilly) 2020-11-22
0.0.1 Unknown (Unknown x Natasha) 2021/2022-00-00
0.0.1 Unknown (Unknown x Opal) 2021/2022-00-00
0.0.1 Unknown (Unknown x Emily) 2021/2022-00-00

Mainland Elephants
All other elephants in the population
 
Mai Thai said:
The so called 'Malaysian bulls' are extremely valuable to the population as neither has any relatives in the population. Sabu and Billy are two of the most genetically valuable elephants in the Americas. The Malaysian bulls are not related at all. Billy has never sired a calf but has shown breeding behavior while Sabu on the other hand has sired two, both passed away, and has been activity breeding at the Cincinnati Zoo for the last couple decades. The Malaysian Elephant is no longer considered to be a subspecies of the Asian Elephant and instead a subpopulation of the mainland Indian Elephants and the Sri Lankan Elephant is currently being researched to figure out if they are the same as Indian Elephant.
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I was assuming that Malaysian elephants are the same thing as Sumatran elephants. Is this wrong? This doesn't make complete sense to me, though, because I thought that Sumatran elephants only live on the island of Sumatra. Prior to this thread, I had never heard of any elephant subspecies being called Malaysian.

I am aware of the Bornean elephant subspecies being questioned, but not Sumatran or Sri Lankan elephants. Do the vast majority of scientists accept these ideas? If Sumatran elephants are really only a subpopulation of Indian elephants, then are Bornean elephants also thought to be a subpopulation?

What I meant by claiming that Sabu and Billy were unimportant was that they have yet to cement their genes in the population, and are running out of time to have a large, lasting effect on the population.
 
wild boar said:
I was assuming that Malaysian elephants are the same thing as Sumatran elephants. Is this wrong? This doesn't make complete sense to me, though, because I thought that Sumatran elephants only live on the island of Sumatra. Prior to this thread, I had never heard of any elephant subspecies being called Malaysian.

I am aware of the Bornean elephant subspecies being questioned, but not Sumatran or Sri Lankan elephants. Do the vast majority of scientists accept these ideas? If Sumatran elephants are really only a subpopulation of Indian elephants, then are Bornean elephants also thought to be a subpopulation?

What I meant by claiming that Sabu and Billy were unimportant was that they have yet to cement their genes in the population, and are running out of time to have a large, lasting effect on the population.
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An elephant could have a "large, lasting effect" even with only one or two offspring. If they only had a few offspring, then those would inherently be more genetically valuable, and could possibly be placed in breeding situations earlier. There's a big trickle-down effect with population genetics, where an individual may have a great effect right away, but later on doesn't have as big an effect, or vice versa with a small effect right away and later on a much larger effect.
 
wild boar said:
I was assuming that Malaysian elephants are the same thing as Sumatran elephants. Is this wrong? This doesn't make complete sense to me, though, because I thought that Sumatran elephants only live on the island of Sumatra. Prior to this thread, I had never heard of any elephant subspecies being called Malaysian.
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They are two seperate sub species. Sumatran's are on the island of Sumatra, and Malaysians are found in Malaysia, which means they're 'mainland' asian elephants - alongside Indians too.

wild boar said:
If Sumatran elephants are really only a subpopulation of Indian elephants, then are Bornean elephants also thought to be a subpopulation?
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It's widely believed the Bornean's split directly off from both Sumatrans and Malaysians in the past.
 
Wouldn't a Bornean x Mainland breeding be really dangerous for the Bornean cow? The calf may be too big.
 
tigris115 said:
Wouldn't a Bornean x Mainland breeding be really dangerous for the Bornean cow? The calf may be too big.
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Not necessarily - the calf will also share 50% of the Bornean genes too, so won't be an entirely large calf.
 
tigris115 said:
Wouldn't a Bornean x Mainland breeding be really dangerous for the Bornean cow? The calf may be too big.
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No. There are two pure Bornean cows in Europe, that have had a combined total of 7 offspring between them, all of which barring one (who was sired by a smallish sri lankan bull) were sired by a fairly large Indian bull. All calves are healthy and were birthed easily. The two eldest hybrid females are the same size as their Bornean mothers, and have also bred with the same large Indian bull to produce 4 healthy, problem free calves.

Ultimately, the cow controls the offspring's size. A very tiny calf could turn into a massive adult, and vice versa. Think, in the wild, massive old 13-14,000 pound bulls will happily breed with little 5-6,000 pound cows just starting their estrus cycles, and they calf just fine. Its the way things are both in terms of only the largest, oldest, most dominant bulls getting to breed, and a method of selection on the cows behalf to attempt to help ensure her potential daughters won't be breeding with their fathers down the road.
 
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