North American Asian Elephant Population 2024

Jambo said:
Johnson won't return to ALS; the whole point of him transferring out is to allow his daughters to breed.

Billy's genetically valuable, hence his planned transfer into a breeding situation. Whether it's Oregon or another facility, we can certainly expect him to move in the coming years.
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why would LA plan to move Billy? He has been languishing there for decades and with non reproductive cows. I honestly do not see him moving or the situation to change.
 
ZCChip said:
why would LA plan to move Billy? He has been languishing there for decades and with non reproductive cows. I honestly do not see him moving or the situation to change.
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I wouldn't discount LA's Billy breeding in the future.
I'd be surprised if LA wasn't actively looking to aquire more elephants. With only two, they're dangerously close to Billy being on his own again which is something that would surely be a further publicity nightmare. They'd be foolish not to want to avoid this situation for a second time.
While the acquisition of further geriatric individuals is a possibility, there aren't a surplus of geriatric females lingering around in phase out facilities like there were four+ years ago. Odds are any facility looking to offload older individuals will turn to TES.

LA's current social situation would be ideal to bring in a few cows. Most likely these would have to be imports.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I wouldn't discount LA's Billy breeding in the future.
I'd be surprised if LA wasn't actively looking to aquire more elephants. With only two, they're dangerously close to Billy being on his own again which is something that would surely be a further publicity nightmare. They'd be foolish not to want to avoid this situation for a second time.
While the acquisition of further geriatric individuals is a possibility, there aren't a surplus of geriatric females lingering around in phase out facilities like there were four+ years ago. Odds are any facility looking to offload older individuals will turn to TES.

LA's current social situation would be ideal to bring in a few cows. Most likely these would have to be imports.
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E Maximus said:
The move is referring to Billy at Denver.
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However, I do agree that LA should acquire some new cows once Tina passes so that they can give their Billy a chance to breed as any of his calves would be genetically valuable due to Billy's wild-born status.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
However, I do agree that LA should acquire some new cows once Tina passes so that they can give their Billy a chance to breed as any of his calves would be genetically valuable due to Billy's wild-born status.
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It would be in LA's best interest from a public standpoint to import/transfer new elephants asap. Loosing two elephants so close together was yet another blow to their already heavily criticized elephant program, and if they let Billy become the singular elephant at the facility again I don't doubt the protests would triple.
Not to mention Billy is steadily reaching a point where odds of successful breeding are slim. LA is perfectly capable of holding two bulls should the need arise, but obviously Billy would be preferred for his genetic value.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I wouldn't discount LA's Billy breeding in the future.
I'd be surprised if LA wasn't actively looking to aquire more elephants. With only two, they're dangerously close to Billy being on his own again which is something that would surely be a further publicity nightmare. They'd be foolish not to want to avoid this situation for a second time.
While the acquisition of further geriatric individuals is a possibility, there aren't a surplus of geriatric females lingering around in phase out facilities like there were four+ years ago. Odds are any facility looking to offload older individuals will turn to TES.

LA's current social situation would be ideal to bring in a few cows. Most likely these would have to be imports.
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If you look at the AZA recommendations lately ..., LA Zoo does not feature at all in terms of new elephants destined to transfer to LA..... LA Zoo might want to look at ALS for new cow elephants of breeding age!
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
If you look at the AZA recommendations lately ..., LA Zoo does not feature at all in terms of new elephants destined to transfer to LA..... LA Zoo might want to look at ALS for new cow elephants of breeding age!
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The most recent revealed SSP doccument doesn't reflect non-AZA transfers (it notably was missing Cincinnati's planned transfers), so I don't think we can 100% rule out that imports aren't being discussed. It would make sense for LA to keep these plans very close to their chest as well.

I do wonder though if ALS cows may slowly begin to move into the US. Aren't there new laws in the process of being passed that will ban breeding? Surely Charlie Gray will be eager to move his cows out chould those laws pass?
 
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Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I do wonder if ALS cows may slowly begin to move into the US. Aren't there new laws in the process of being pasaed that will ban breeding?
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If these laws are in the process ..., AW and anti-zoo mouvement have seriously invaded mainstream thought in the face of lack of engagement by the ex situ conservation breeding and zoo communities'. This legislation if it pre-exists needs to be fought at all levels in order to prevent ex situ conservation breeding becoming as Dead as a Dodo. It is pushed by a political elite totally out of step with reality and that the Sixth Extinction will fast track once they kill of ex situ conservation (breeding) actions, projects and efforts.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I do wonder though if ALS cows may slowly begin to move into the US. Aren't there new laws in the process of being passed that will ban breeding? Surely Charlie Gray will be eager to move his cows out chould those laws pass?
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I believe the bill prohibits new holders from acquiring and breeding elephants. It doesn't apply to animals already in captivity there - which in the case of elephants in Canada, would only surround Gray's herd at ALS.
 
Jambo said:
I believe the bill prohibits new holders from acquiring and breeding elephants. It doesn't apply to animals already in captivity there - which in the case of elephants in Canada, would only surround Gray's herd at ALS.
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why are they even introducing and potentially pass that bill?!
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
Nah, they've been wanting to source a new bull from Europe for awhile.

Given how Canadian legislation has been the past few years, I'm not altogether certain that's wise IMHO.
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I'd expect them to bring in another bull soon if they don't have plans already. Despite the shaky legislation in Canada right now, it would be an unwise choise to not breed the seven young females they have at the facility currently. If anything they should be working to strengthen their matrilines as much as possible before a circumstance would arise where They'd need to be sent out of the country.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
Nah, they've been wanting to source a new bull from Europe for awhile.

Given how Canadian legislation has been the past few years, I'm not altogether certain that's wise IMHO.
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rubicon is a river in Italy so I took that they are getting a bull from Italy?
 
ZCChip said:
that’s terrible.
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Indeed. Canadian public outlook in general seems to frown on the captive keeping of intelligent species. I have very little doubt that a similar breeding ban will follow in the next few decades for elephants. However until that point I don't see a reason for ALS to stop breeding nor do I think they will.

However I do have to wonder what the future at ALS will look like in terms of social groupings. With over a dozen cows and three seperate matrilines, I wonder how long they can go on from a social standpoint.

Natasha (Tusko x Whimpy)
  • Opal (Rex x Natasha)
    • Anna May (Johnson x Opal)
    • Onyx (Johnson x Natasha)
  • Nellie (Johnson x Natasha)
  • Rose (Johnson x Natasha)
  • Sunita (Johnson x Natasha)
Lilly (Motek x Warda)
  • Piccolo (Alexander x Lilly)
  • Hannah (Johnson x Lilly)
  • Luna (Johnson x Lilly)
  • Imke (Johnson x Lilly)
Emily (Rex x Kitty)

Each matriline other than Emily has over four daughters to their name, and that number would only grow with the arrival of a new bull.
 
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