North American Asian Elephant Population 2024

[Kifaru Bwana]

Crossing the rubicon is slang for passing the point of no return. IE: It refers to a bad thing.

Crossing the Rubicon - Wikipedia

I meant it more like a parabel to qualify that bull Johnson went south as ALS does not very often exchange or transfer out individual elephants.

If that in vitro strategy at ALS is anything to go by....What on Earth why since they have various bulls on site and a well structured natural herd.

If you look at the genetics they need a new bull ASAP and I would appreciate if they sent off some of the cows out down south too.

 

[Jambo]

If that in vitro strategy at ALS is anything to go by....What on Earth why since they have various bulls on site and a well structured natural herd.

The other adult bull they have is apparently chemically castrated so he can't naturally breed. The next youngest male appears to be Onyx who's only six years old so not of breeding age yet.

I do imagine they'll probably end up acquiring a new bull. Europe probably..

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

Indeed. Canadian public outlook in general seems to frown on the captive keeping of intelligent species. I have very little doubt that a similar breeding ban will follow in the next few decades for elephants. However until that point I don't see a reason for ALS to stop breeding nor do I think they will.

However I do have to wonder what the future at ALS will look like in terms of social groupings. With over a dozen cows and three seperate matrilines, I wonder how long they can go on from a social standpoint.

Natasha (Tusko x Whimpy)

• Opal (Rex x Natasha)
  • Anna May (Johnson x Opal)
  • Onyx (Johnson x Natasha)

• Nellie (Johnson x Natasha)
• Rose (Johnson x Natasha)
• Sunita (Johnson x Natasha)

Lilly (Motek x Warda)

• Piccolo (Alexander x Lilly)
• Hannah (Johnson x Lilly)
• Luna (Johnson x Lilly)
• Imke (Johnson x Lilly)

Emily (Rex x Kitty)

Each matriline other than Emily has over four daughters to their name, and that number would only grow with the arrival of a new bull.

Maya is the daughter of Emily and Johnson. The other two calves that were born in 2021 passed away due to EEHV.

 

[Jambo]

Maya is the daughter of Emily and Johnson. The other two calves that were born in 2021 passed away due to EEHV.

Natasha and Opal were the mothers of those two deceased calves, correct?

I believe it was rumored Lily gave birth to a calf last year.

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

Natasha and Opal were the mothers of those two deceased calves, correct?

I believe it was rumored Lily gave birth to a calf last year.

Yes, Natasha and Opal were the mothers of the deceased calves. I've heard rumors that African Lion Safari had two calves last year one of which was born to Lily but have gotten no official confirmation.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

Yes, Natasha and Opal were the mothers of the deceased calves. I've heard rumors that African Lion Safari had two calves last year one of which was born to Lily but have gotten no official confirmation.

Do you know who was the mother of the second calf?

 

[Jambo]

Do you know who was the mother of the second calf?

Theoretically, it would've had to have been Nellie.

 

[ZCChip]

Theoretically, it would've had to have been Nellie.

and who would be the sire of that calf? Johnson?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Natasha and Opal were the mothers of those two deceased calves, correct?

I believe it was rumored Lily gave birth to a calf last year.

@JonathanPetersson, do you know when both of Natasha's and Opal calves were born? What with the suggested rumour that Lilly had a calf in 2023 (as @Jambo seems to suggest)?

Any more detailed information on the above new information (I thought that ALS was probably not so secretive about a new ele events?)?

 

[Jambo]

@JonathanPetersson, do you know when both of Natasha's and Opal calves were born?

They were born in 2021 I believe.

 

[Jambo]

and who would be the sire of that calf? Johnson?

Correct, it would've had to have been.

Whilst we can't rule out the two females who birthed in 2021 (Natasha and Opal), it's very unlikely given elephant gestation and the fact that their calves seemed to have survived for a while before passing from EEHV.

We can also rule out Lily as she apparently had a calf the same year.

That would leave just Nellie and Hannah, both of whom would've been just ten and nine at the time, and both daughters of Johnson.

Johnson would've been the only viable bull at the park at the time.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

They were born in 2021 I believe.

I meant to have some more definites about date of birth and how and where the calves did not survive and / or succumbed to EEHV (as as been suggested)?

What is the situation now with the remaining adult bull George (chemically surprised or neutered or what or just straight non-reproductive)?
(The other male around is juvenile / adolescent transitioning bull Onyx)

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

@JonathanPetersson, do you know when both of Natasha's and Opal calves were born? What with the suggested rumour that Lilly had a calf in 2023 (as @Jambo seems to suggest)?

Any more detailed information on the above new information (I thought that ALS was probably not so secretive about a new ele events?)?

Natasha and Opal's calves were both born in the winter of 2020/2021, I do not have the exact birthdates of those two calves, and passed away later on in 2021 to early 2022. African Lion Safari had two elephant calves born in 2023 both sired by Johnson one of which was born to Lily. George is chemically castrated and there are no plans of using him in the breeding program. As of right now I have heard nothing of African Lion Safari trying to get a new bull but I would not put it past them.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

I've been looking through some of the facilities that house geriatric individuals and I was wondering if anyone has information on their future plans regarding elephants.
A few facilities I have been able to find phase out information for, but I can't find recent information on Auduban, Little Rock, Busch Gardens, Dickerson Park or Buttonwood Park. Have any of these facilities discussed their plans recently?

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

I've been looking through some of the facilities that house geriatric individuals and I was wondering if anyone has information on their future plans regarding elephants.
A few facilities I have been able to find phase out information for, but I can't find recent information on Auduban, Little Rock, Busch Gardens, Dickerson Park or Buttonwood Park. Have any of these facilities discussed their plans recently?

It is confirmed that Busch Gardens is phasing out elephants after their current herd passes away.

 

[MidwestFan]

It is confirmed that Busch Gardens is phasing out elephants after their current herd passes away.

They have a nice barn and exhibit, and long history, I am kind of surprised.

 

[Nile Hippo Expert]

I've been looking through some of the facilities that house geriatric individuals and I was wondering if anyone has information on their future plans regarding elephants.
A few facilities I have been able to find phase out information for, but I can't find recent information on Auduban, Little Rock, Busch Gardens, Dickerson Park or Buttonwood Park. Have any of these facilities discussed their plans recently?

The Buttonwood Park Zoo is 100% phasing out elephants once Emily and Ruth pass away.

 

[Yazziel]

It is confirmed that Busch Gardens is phasing out elephants after their current herd passes away.

When was it confirmed?
I visited back in May and did the Elephant Insider Tour and when I asked the question of the future of their elephants the keeper responded with plans are ever changing. Since there is such a large age gap with Karnaudi and the rest of the girls only time will tell if they bring in more elephants or move Karnaudi on when the time comes.

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

When was it confirmed?
I visited back in May and did the Elephant Insider Tour and when I asked the question of the future of their elephants the keeper responded with plans are ever changing. Since there is such a large age gap with Karnaudi and the rest of the girls only time will tell if they bring in more elephants or move Karnaudi on when the time comes.

Keepers stated that the park did not intend to bring back elephants a couple years ago after the current the current herd passed when I asked.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

When was it confirmed?
I visited back in May and did the Elephant Insider Tour and when I asked the question of the future of their elephants the keeper responded with plans are ever changing. Since there is such a large age gap with Karnaudi and the rest of the girls only time will tell if they bring in more elephants or move Karnaudi on when the time comes.

I really hope they reconsider a phase out. I know very little about their facility but parks have succeeded in having fabulous animal exhibits while still being, well, a theme park (See animal kingdom). And in the long run we need every holder we can get.

It would be ideal for several of these facilities to make transformations into either bachelor holding or invest in building new habitats for breeding herds. I know Little Rock had ambitions to one day house breeding individuals but that was well over a decade ago now and they seem to not have any goals to change/move their exhibit.
I have no idea about other facilities with herds like Auduban and Dickerson however, but I find phase outs fairly unlikely for them.