North American Asian Elephant Population 2025

Some updates on Columbus.
Phoebe, Rudy, Sunny and Rita Jean are spending more time together consistently, I saw them all together today and they appear to be doing really well! A docent said Frankie hasn't been able to share space with Rita because he's been too rough, but since their information isn't always reliable I'm taking it with a grain of salt.
On another note, I think Phoebe is getting very close to dropping her calf. She's huge and is clearly in a lot of discomfort. She's moving very slowly and acting very lethargic.
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Frankie_number_1_fan said:
On another note, I think Phoebe is getting very close to dropping her calf. She's huge and is clearly in a lot of discomfort. She's moving very slowly and acting very lethargic.
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Lovely! Well, I'm certain that it's not lovely for poor Phoebe to be so uncomfortable, but it'll be wonderful for Rita Jean to have a playmate once Phoebe does drop that calf.

Plus, perhaps with two calves on the ground, Frankie's rough and tumbleness can be spread out a bit better until he learns to play gently. Lol
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Some updates on Columbus.
Phoebe, Rudy, Sunny and Rita Jean are spending more time together consistently, I saw them all together today and they appear to be doing really well! A docent said Frankie hasn't been able to share space with Rita because he's been too rough, but since their information isn't always reliable I'm taking it with a grain of salt.
On another note, I think Phoebe is getting very close to dropping her calf. She's huge and is clearly in a lot of discomfort. She's moving very slowly and acting very lethargic.
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Thanks for the updates!

It's normal for young bulls of Frankie's age to be rough with new calves; they're at the age where they're very rambunctious and after the novelty of the new calf quickly dies, all they want to do is play, especially when they lack playmates of their own. So I imagine the docent may be right with that.

Phoebe should be due any week now, so it makes sense. Perhaps this is also part of the reason why Frankie's been separated in preparation for spending some time apart once she births too. Frankie's four now too, so I think we could expect to see him spending more time separated rather than with the matriarchal herd.

Does Frankie spend time with Johnson?
 
Jambo said:
Thanks for the updates!

It's normal for young bulls of Frankie's age to be rough with new calves; they're at the age where they're very rambunctious and after the novelty of the new calf quickly dies, all they want to do is play, especially when they lack playmates of their own. So I imagine the docent may be right with that.

Phoebe should be due any week now, so it makes sense. Perhaps this is also part of the reason why Frankie's been separated in preparation for spending some time apart once she births too. Frankie's four now too, so I think we could expect to see him spending more time separated rather than with the matriarchal herd.

Does Frankie spend time with Johnson?
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I only say to take the docent's information with a grain of salt because Columbus' docents are known to exaggerate information they only briefly hear from keepers, especially regarding the elephants.

I'm sure Frankie is being too rough at times (and Phoebe is in no state to properly correct him so late in pregnancy), but given that they've been doing introductions, shared space and keepers themselves have said that he was doing well, I'd rather wait for a more credible source to confirm the information. I don't find it necessarily unlikely all things considered, but I've heard many things said over the years at the elephant exhibit that Ive found out later/known to be blatantly untrue or exaggerated.
I do agree that it's likely he's being kept seperate to ease stress on both Sunny and Phoebe mainly, who need to focus on bonding with each other and their calves. Having a boistrous young male around a very pregnant female and a very young calf is asking for some disharmony. I'm sure they'll aim to reintegrate once the cows are settled and the calves are bigger.

Last I'd heard on Johnson is that he does well with Frankie for short periods, but then gets "bored" and starts to push him around and just overall be a bully. Hopefully the situation has/will improve the more they interact, seeing as Frankie has no other options for shared-space social interaction.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Last I'd heard on Johnson is that he does well with Frankie for short periods, but then gets "bored" and starts to push him around and just overall be a bully. Hopefully the situation has/will improve the more they interact, seeing as Frankie has no other options for shared-space social interaction.
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That's not surprising at all. I don't believe Johnson ever had substantial time spent with any of his sons at ALS, so this would be very much a novelty to him. I tend to find a lot of mature bulls are like this; and can't really keep up with the exuberance of the younger bulls, but every now and again you get a social butterfly bull that can and will, and therefore could serve as a great mentor bull to younger bulls.

The best case for Frankie is probably for Phoebe's next calf to be another son, which will at least allow him to have a companion as he matures, although that still likely won't be for another three to four years. I guess they'll just have to make do with Johnson in the meantime.

Raja should also be arriving from Saint Louis soon too, so perhaps he'll be a better shot, but then again, he hasn't had sons and has never interacted with another bull (to my knowledge).
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Phoebe's progesterone levels dropped over the weekend! Keepers are begining to observe her round-the-clock. We're getting very close, fingers crossed everything goes well!
Columbus Zoo and Aquarium on Instagram
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Elephants usually birth mere days after this - so considering it's been at least now over two days, I have a sneaky suspicion she'll birth tonight. Fingers crossed everything goes well!
 
ZCChip said:
Damn. A boy. Not what she needs.
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I mean... it's still an extremely valuable calf considering his father's next to zero representation.

Why are folks always so anti-male? Sure, it'd be nice for Phoebe to have a matrilline - but think about the fact that this valuable little calf will be able to pump representation of those genes out way faster than any female ever could. And I'm sure she'll have a few calves yet who may be female!

If this was yet another son from an extremely well represented male - sure. But male or female, this calf is very very special for the population.
 
HawkAlot said:
I mean... it's still an extremely valuable calf considering his father's next to zero representation.

Why are folks always so anti-male? Sure, it'd be nice for Phoebe to have a matrilline - but think about the fact that this valuable little calf will be able to pump representation of those genes out way faster than any female ever could. And I'm sure she'll have a few calves yet who may be female!

If this was yet another son from an extremely well represented male - sure. But male or female, this calf is very very special for the population.
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Phoebe is very well represented herself. She already has two living sons. No daughters.
 
ZCChip said:
Phoebe is very well represented herself. She already has two living sons. No daughters.
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That doesn't negate the fact that this calf's father up until this summer had zero living relatives in NA. That's a huge deal - regardless of the sex.

That's like saying Kandula in OKC is from a well represented line because his father had some calves here and now over in Europe. Meanwhile - he is his mother's only descendant here in the US. His sex doesn't change his value in the population whatsoever.
 
HawkAlot said:
I mean... it's still an extremely valuable calf considering his father's next to zero representation.

Why are folks always so anti-male? Sure, it'd be nice for Phoebe to have a matrilline - but think about the fact that this valuable little calf will be able to pump representation of those genes out way faster than any female ever could. And I'm sure she'll have a few calves yet who may be female!

If this was yet another son from an extremely well represented male - sure. But male or female, this calf is very very special for the population.
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I’m pretty sure this calf as well is the only living male descendant of Sabu currently.
 
HawkAlot said:
I mean... it's still an extremely valuable calf considering his father's next to zero representation.

Why are folks always so anti-male? Sure, it'd be nice for Phoebe to have a matrilline - but think about the fact that this valuable little calf will be able to pump representation of those genes out way faster than any female ever could. And I'm sure she'll have a few calves yet who may be female!

If this was yet another son from an extremely well represented male - sure. But male or female, this calf is very very special for the population.
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Precisely this. If this calf was a Johnson son, sure it might be more of a disappointment. And while it is frustrating that Phoebe has no surviving daughters right now, if her reproductive health is strong there is little reason to worry that she won't be able to have one now that two males with impressive records of daughters are either onsite or soon to be onsite. Her keepers have stated that they believe she should be able to breed into her 40s, which is potentially another 3-4 calves that could easily have a few females among them.

Sabu now has 1.1 calves, a female line and a male line which is amazing. I can't think of better conditions for a value male calf to grow up in as well. A peer calf to play with, an older brother who will surely become a companion before long and two males to learn from.
 
E Maximus said:
Phoebe has had her baby and it’s a boy
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I knew my feeling that Phoebe would have a male calf was valid :p, all jokes aside, although this is another male to Phoebe out of all her sons, he is the most genetically valuable as the only living male descendant of Sabu. And although a female would have been amazing, the fact that both Johnson and Raja are living/set to arrive at Columbus, there is a high likelihood that Phoebe's next calf will be a female.
 
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HawkAlot said:
That's like saying Kandula in OKC is from a well represented line because his father had some calves here and now over in Europe. Meanwhile - he is his mother's only descendant here in the US. His sex doesn't change his value in the population whatsoever.
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The same could be said about Phoebe's second-born son, Bodhi, although through his mother's line, he is related is large amount of the global population, that doesn't change the fact that he is his father's only surviving offspring, and he in turn has a single daughter, and hopefully will continue to breed either naturally or through AI.
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Sabu now has 1.1 calves, a female line and a male line which is amazing. I can't think of better conditions for a value male calf to grow up in as well. A peer calf to play with, an older brother who will surely become a companion before long and two males to learn from.
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And considering that Sabu has only sired two other calves before the birth of Rita, and now PHO25 calf, one male with Jati, and one female with Moola, I think it's safe to say that we can continue to see a similar pattern of 50/50 with whatever calves are born to Yasmin and Anak. I completely agree that Phoebe's new son will thrive with having Frankie around, seeing as bulls that are raised with older brothers seem to be much more socially savvy individuals, as well as allowing for a spar partner as he gets older, and having Rita present is another plus, as this allows for a same-age playmate, as well as species-appropriate play behavior.
 
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HawkAlot said:
I mean... it's still an extremely valuable calf considering his father's next to zero representation.

Why are folks always so anti-male? Sure, it'd be nice for Phoebe to have a matrilline - but think about the fact that this valuable little calf will be able to pump representation of those genes out way faster than any female ever could. And I'm sure she'll have a few calves yet who may be female!

If this was yet another son from an extremely well represented male - sure. But male or female, this calf is very very special for the population.
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This I agree with, I actually think the population can certainly eventually use another breeding or bachelor bull, especially one of international ancestry on both sides. If Phoebe's next calf is also a male, then that may be considered a disappointment since Johnson and Raja both have bull calves already and her reproductive years being numbered by then, but for now I am actually kind of happy that we got a boy.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
This I agree with, I actually think the population can certainly eventually use another breeding or bachelor bull, especially one of international ancestry on both sides. If Phoebe's next calf is also a male, then that may be considered a disappointment since Johnson and Raja both have bull calves already and her reproductive years being numbered by then, but for now I am actually kind of happy that we got a boy.
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Raja just has girls (surviving anyways) but now has at least one breeding daughter = gene representation down the line. He is also nice in the sense that he's well represented on his father's side, but is his mother's only offspring.
 
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