North American Asian Elephant Population 2025

I'm faithful that the zoo will have elephants again relatively soon once the heat dies down and once a group becomes available. Give it about 5 years

I think the exhibit will receive very minimal renovations to be ready for this. For example, I imagine rhinos, tapirs, and takin will probably be what they exhibit as it'll keep with the Asian theming
 
This decision by LA is really not that surprising to me. Giving Tina companionship would be a big priority and it's been decided that this can't occur at LA for whatever reason. They've obviously deduced Tina is still in good condition for a move, so there's really no reason to keep her at LA.

Whilst the move is disappointing for the zoo and its locals, it's a really positive move for both elephants. Tina will get companions again, and Billy will hopefully get the opportunity to interact with a bull for the first time in a long time.

With Tulsa also looking to hold a breeding group in the long term, I'm also hopeful that this will be Billy's big chance to finally sire some offspring once additional cows are acquired.
 
tigris115 said:
I'm faithful that the zoo will have elephants again relatively soon once the heat dies down and once a group becomes available.
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I'd personally be very very sad if they decided to not have elephants again at all after their move. If imports were allowed at last then they'd gladly take a herd split from ALS or any European Asian facility that needs to (I don't know any off the top of my head).
 
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The Horse Boy said:
I'd personally be very very sad if they decided to not have elephants again at all after their move. If imports were allowed at last then they'd gladly take a herd split from ALS or any European Asian facility that needs to (I don't know any off the top of my head).
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What seems to be the issue with imports?
 
Hyak_II said:
Technically there are no restrictions on imports from Canada or Europe, however is it an extremely time, money, and labour intensive process. There is a reason why it’s been done so few times over the past 20 odd years, and why it’s primarily been to extremely well funded facilities.
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Considering the time and effort it took to get Budi from Dublin to Denver, Yasmin/Anak/Sanjay/Kabir from Dublin to Cincinnati, Trong Nhi and Nhi Linh from Rotterdam to National, Johnson from ALS to Columbus, and even Ongard from Melbourne to Miami... yeah, I'd tend to agree.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Yes, they stated on their website for years that the only reason why they didn't have females to breed with Billy was due to them housing older females.
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Let's hope they're still adamant regardless of what's happening now. But for now I think the only American facilities to sustainably house Asian with proper herds are ABQ Cincy Columbus Denver Dickerson Fort Worth Houston OKC Oregon Rosamand St Louis Smithsonian Tulsa and White Oak. I find phase outs for Audubon and Miami very unlikely for phase outs as the former has a newer enclosure and the latter has a younger bull. And San Antonio still seems dead set on bringing in Asians as the next phase after they finish gorillas later this year
 
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I took a look at an overhead view of Tulsa's elephant facility on Google Earth - I genuinely have no idea what people are complaining about when it comes to Billy and Tina's welfare. I'm unsure how often the elephants'll have access to the 10 acre offshow preserve, but *this* level of innovation should be replicated by zoos looking to give their elephants choice and highlight them in as dignified a way as possible.

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StoppableSan said:
I took a look at an overhead view of Tulsa's elephant facility on Google Earth - I genuinely have no idea what people are complaining about when it comes to Billy and Tina's welfare. I'm unsure how often the elephants'll have access to the 10 acre offshow preserve, but *this* level of innovation should be replicated by zoos looking to give their elephants choice and highlight them in as dignified a way as possible.

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They could have access to the entire county, but if the zoo was involved - folks would have an issue with it. It's not a sAnCTUaRyyyyY.
 
StoppableSan said:
I took a look at an overhead view of Tulsa's elephant facility on Google Earth - I genuinely have no idea what people are complaining about when it comes to Billy and Tina's welfare. I'm unsure how often the elephants'll have access to the 10 acre offshow preserve, but *this* level of innovation should be replicated by zoos looking to give their elephants choice and highlight them in as dignified a way as possible.

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Cheyenne mountain apparently has a 3 acre private space for their Africans they call a 'vacation yard'. But I think I read on a youtube vids they mainly use it in summer months. I agree that as zoos now have to give their animals choice in their habitats, large private yards would be a good idea for elephants when they do not feel like being viewed by the noisy crowds. I'm just unsure how much of the other zoos have enough land to build these. Still, it is a good start.
 
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On a nicer note, I'm glad that TES is now not the only locations zoos depend on for sending out geriatric Asians to retire. Tulsa publicly stated they eventually want to house breeding groups, but it does serve as a wonderful place for housing post reproductive individuals after they leave zoos that either plan on full blown phase outs or one's planning to solely house younger social groupings mirrioring the wild (e.g Columbus las year when they moved hank and connie last summer). On the whole, since Billy and Tina's move and other recent or planned phase outs, we're gradually starting to see less and less geriatric exhibits and more matriachal bachelor or both.
 
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The Horse Boy said:
On a nicer note, I'm glad that TES is now not the only locations zoos depend on for sending out geriatric Asians to retire. Tulsa publicly stated they eventually want to house breeding groups, but it does serve as a wonderful place for housing post reproductive individuals after they leave zoos that either plan on full blown phase outs or one's planning to solely house younger social groupings mirrioring the wild (e.g Columbus las year when they moved hank and connie last summer). On the whole, since Billy and Tina's move and other recent or planned phase outs, we're gradually starting to see less and less geriatric exhibits and more matriachal bachelor or both.
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Honestly I see little issue with TES being the designated "retirement facility" for geriatric individuals. Especially in Tulsa's case, it's a touch unfortunate to see such a state of the art breeding facility be used for overflow holding, but it's also arguable that they wouldn't house a breeding group for years even if they had the space for it.
In this scenario I am glad that Billy and Tina (specifically Billy) didn't end up in TES' hands simply due to Billy's genetic value, but I hope the SSP doesn't become too comfortable sending excess individuals to Tulsa. Imo they're too valuable of a potential breeding holder.
 
On an even nicer note, I'm happy to see that nobody seems to be sending their elephants to PAWS anymore!

I don't mind post-reproductive females who aren't part of an existing matrilline/cohesive breeding group being sent to TES - but unless they're deemed truly infertile, I do *not* support sending males there. An absolute waste of genetics/resources, and unnecessarily feeds into public perception that all elephants are best off in a sanctuary.
 
Regarding Tulsa, I want to know is Hank living with Sneezy, Booper, and Sooky yet because I know Connie is fully integrated with them back in November and Hank was being introduced to Sooky at the time so I want to know are all five living together yet?
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Regarding Tulsa, I want to know is Hank living with Sneezy, Booper, and Sooky yet because I know Connie is fully integrated with them back in November and Hank was being introduced to Sooky at the time so I want to know are all five living together yet?
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No I don't believe Hank has been introduced to the others yet, or at least he spends his time with Connie or by himself.

Connie however has been introduced to the others and is quite fond of Sneezy.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Regarding Tulsa, I want to know is Hank living with Sneezy, Booper, and Sooky yet because I know Connie is fully integrated with them back in November and Hank was being introduced to Sooky at the time so I want to know are all five living together yet?
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Hank has been intro'd to Sooky and spends time with her and Connie or each on their own individually, but not to Sneezy. I have no clue about Booper, though.
 
The Horse Boy said:
I find phase outs for Audubon and Miami very unlikely for phase outs as the former has a newer enclosure and the latter has a younger bull.
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I wonder if Miami may phase out one of their species and end up sticking with either Asian or African Elephants. I would hope that wouldn't be the case since they are still one of only two zoos that house both species, since Mikki and Punch from Louisville were sent to TES.
 
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