North American Asian Elephant Population

Yi Qi said:
I'm glad too. Are Jothi and Surapa still able to breed? If so, where should they get the bull?
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Even three years ago when I was there, breeding was no longer being discussed. Surapa has one of the most faces I've ever seen, right up there with BG's Karnaudi. They look like baby Dumbo.
 
TheWalrus said:
As of my last visit yesterday, the answer is yes. George is still doing demonstrations.
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I envy you being close enough to visit frequently. Does the big group of moms/calves still go out in the yard in the afternoon?

Lol I don't suppose the walrus could be Smoochie?
 
John Marchwick said:
Does anyone know if the Los Angeles Zoo has plans to breed Billy in the future?
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A number of us wonder why he does not seem to be part of the SSP breeding program, but one member discretely revealed that he is trained for semen collection, implying that he may still be believed to be fertile.
 
AmbikaFan said:
A number of us wonder why he does not seem to be part of the SSP breeding program, but one member discretely revealed that he is trained for semen collection, implying that he may still be believed to be fertile.
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Good to know. Hopefully he’ll have someone to breed with oneday
 
John Marchwick said:
Good to know. Hopefully he’ll have someone to breed with oneday
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It's mysterious and perhaps complicated. He's not listed as a castrated male in the stud book, but he does seem to be just about the only male elephant for whom there doesn't seem to plan for a breeding partner. He's a stunning specimen, and LA's new exhibit is not only fantastic but literally the centerpiece of the zoo. All the ingredients for success would seem to be in place..
 
There's a bit of conversation so I won't bother quoting, but in regards to the ALS herd, yes they do still have the large social groupings. As I mentioned they have been varying things up a lot this year, but their most standard groups falls into the following animals:

George, Natasha, Opal, Nellie, Ana-May, and Rose

Lily, Piccilo, Emily, Hannah, Gigi

Chuck and Jake

Johnson

Maggie and Jenny generally are seen on public display doing the rides, or sometime swims with the Lily group.

Chuck and Jake are almost always together, however they do go in with either George or Johnson regularly as well.

Not often, but sometimes for private events or whatnot they will bring out all the animals except for Chuck, Jake, Jenny, and Johnson, to do swims or big feasts.

This year things have been a bit different, some of the adult cows (lily and Natasha) are doing rides as well, and sometimes you will find all the "youngsters" on display, so that would be Chuck, Jake, Nellie, Hannah, Ana-May, Gigi, and Rose all in one big group.

There are also different social groupings done with Johnson, and he actually gets on very well with all the other elephants including his young daughters, however he can not go into the main display yard which limits viewing of him with the other eles sans chuck and jake in the semi-public bull yard.
 
AmbikaFan said:
It's mysterious and perhaps complicated. He's not listed as a castrated male in the stud book, but he does seem to be just about the only male elephant for whom there doesn't seem to plan for a breeding partner. He's a stunning specimen, and LA's new exhibit is not only fantastic but literally the centerpiece of the zoo. All the ingredients for success would seem to be in place..
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Agreed. And I wish they wouldn’t Billy go to waste. He would be a great father in my opinion
 
Hyak_II said:
Lily, Piccilo, Emily, Hannah, Gigi

Chuck and Jake

Johnson


Thre are also different social groupings done with Johnson, and he actually gets on very well with all the other elephants including his young daughters, however he can not go into the main display yard which limits viewing of him with the other eles sans chuck and jake in the semi-public bull yard.
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Charlie Gray maintains that he has very little musth amongst his males because he has them living like equals, with no dominant one. That would explain the peaceful grouping of all four males--and the ability of the males to be calm ambassador animals in demonstrations. I have NEVER seen Piccolina.
 
AmbikaFan said:
Charlie Gray maintains that he has very little musth amongst his males because he has them living like equals, with no dominant one. That would explain the peaceful grouping of all four males--and the ability of the males to be calm ambassador animals in demonstrations. I have NEVER seen Piccolina.
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Eh, that's only partially true. Johnson does enter a mild musth when the cows are cycling, and the main reason that George is managed free contact and doesn't enter a musth cycle is because he is chemically castrated. In addition, George and Johnson are rarely, if ever put together at this point.

Also about the males being brought out, it's only George now. The last time Chuck and Jake were making appearances out of the exhibts were in 2016, and quite a bit before that for johnson. Johnson is totally PC now, and while chuck and Jake are still managed free contact, I don't know much longer that will last for.

As for Piccolo, she's often on display! To be quite honest she's a rather unusual looking animal, but she strikes me as being quite spirited!
 
Hyak_II said:
Actually here's a picture of piccolo, photo compliments of yours truly ;)
View attachment 358759
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Thank you for all this. I too was told that George was chemically castrated, but Gray was quick to refute this, possibly because George is reportedly the father of then newborn Gigi. I hope they saved semen, because Emily can't breed anyone but George without inbreeding. Piccolina is the result of inbreeding, which could account for both her appearance and lack of breeding success. When Charley Gray first purchased sisters Phoebe and Lilly, Lilly was pregnant by a breeding to her full brother Alexander. The genepool of Alexander (and parents Motek and Warda) is heavily represented in Europe.
 
World Elephant Day News! Columbus's Phoebe is 18 months pregnant, due in December! Phoebe, sister of Lilly mentioned above, had her last calf Beco 9 years ago, and especially with the arrival of Rudy and Sunny from Ringling, I thought she was done. The sire is either the incredible Hank or an AI donor to be determined later. Even with Kenzie's loss, there were still two surviving calves last year (Rose and Joy) and Thorn and Tilly and ex-pat Ongard this year. There are gains being made!
 
Just noticed that there are more female then male asian elephants. I presume its to do with temperament?
 
Yi Qi said:
Just noticed that there are more female then male asian elephants. I presume its to do with temperament?
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Precisely. Back when zoos, circuses and private owners were importing copious amounts of young Asian Elephants from range countries, many, many more females were imported due to the fact they could be managed free contact for their entire lives, as a general rule, as opposed to males, which needed to either be castrated, or moved to a protected/no contact management style as they matured. Some males could be managed FC into adulthood, but that was the exception to the norm.

If you look at the gender ratios for elephants under the cage of 25 or so, you will see it is much more equal ratio.

Remember, facility wide protected contact only started to really take off after the early 2000's, and was virtually unheard of for ANY animals prior to the 80's. It was either free contact, or no contact at all.
 
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