North American Asian Elephant Population

AmbikaFan said:
Just curious. I went to the link on page 1 for the studbook, and it leads to an error page. Does anyone have a link to the most recent studbook?
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I've experienced the same problem too. In November 2018, I made a post on the thread Who Coordinates the Asian & African Elephant Studbooks? asking why the Asian elephant studbook, as well as the African elephant studbook, was inaccessible. Unfortunately, I never received a response or answer. However despite the official studbooks being down, I was able to find a duplicate of the 2005 and 2010 Asian elephant studbook: 2005 Asian Elephant Studbook - AZA Elephant TAG/SSP Homepage & 2010 Asian Elephant Studbook - AZA Elephant TAG/SSP Homepage. I couldn't find an accessible duplicate of the 2014 studbook which is the most recent one I know of.
 
Thanks for weighing in. The 2010 version is the most recent I can get to. Fortunately, you've done the legwork to provide this thread with updates that render it pretty valuable! Kudos for your continued work.
 
Anyone know what herd numbers are at Rockton at this time and the number of calfs bred to date!
 
Are there any zoos that hold elephants in Mexico and in Central America? This is called the North American Asian Elephant Population thread after all.
 
Zorro said:
Thats outstanding any idea how many mature bulls they have there these days.
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Two. Johnson (Calvin x Kitty), 2001, and George (Calvin x Phoebe), 1999. Johnson is a father of 5 females and 1 male since 2013. George is chemically castrated and has sired only one calf, Gigi, born in February of 2015.
 
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I don't know how to upload the file, but the Chester Zoo (England), after losing two calves to EEHV, has announced that its 2-year-old female Indali has the virus. I mention this, despite our thread being devoted to the NA population, because they have used a procedure I haven't seen before. They now have an on-site lab, probably like NZP's, that processes thrice-weekly tests. They made this diagnosis so early that Indali has yet to show physical symptoms. They put her on anti-viral medication, presumably Tamcyclovir, AND flushed her system with plasma from the blood of an identically-type-matched elephant. This is pretty wonderful. Once the purple tongue and malaise set in, death usually follows within 24 hours. I know of calves who have survived EEHV, but this early, pre-symptom diagnosis and blood cleansing as a treatment is promising news.

Has Columbus ever revealed the results of the necropsy on Phoebe's calf?
 
Elephant Enthusiast said:
I've experienced the same problem too. In November 2018, I made a post on the thread Who Coordinates the Asian & African Elephant Studbooks? asking why the Asian elephant studbook, as well as the African elephant studbook, was inaccessible. Unfortunately, I never received a response or answer. However despite the official studbooks being down, I was able to find a duplicate of the 2005 and 2010 Asian elephant studbook: 2005 Asian Elephant Studbook - AZA Elephant TAG/SSP Homepage & 2010 Asian Elephant Studbook - AZA Elephant TAG/SSP Homepage. I couldn't find an accessible duplicate of the 2014 studbook which is the most recent one I know of.
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For many years while Pat Derby was alive, the PAWS Sanctuary provided up-to-date
links to both the Asian and African studbooks. I see they are no longer there. Is the TAG making efforts to keep this document out of the public?
 
AmbikaFan said:
Two. Johnson (Calvin x Kitty), 2001, and George (Calvin x Phoebe), 1999. Johnson is a father of 5 females and 1 male since 2013. George is chemically castrated and has sired only one calf, Gigi, born in February of 2015.
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I would of thought that Rockton would have obtained a young bull from Emmen sired by the outstanding massive bull Radza!
 
Yi Qi said:
I'm pretty sure African Lion Safari is in Hamilton or Kitchener, not Rockton (which I've never even heard of until now).
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No, ALS is indeed in Rockton. When you're heading north up highway 8 to access the park from the south, you actually drive right by it. It's this tiny little town right off the highway to your right. ALS is technically closer to cambridge, but the land it sits on falls under the municipality of Rockton still, as far as I'm aware.
 
AmbikaFan said:
Thanks for weighing in. The 2010 version is the most recent I can get to. Fortunately, you've done the legwork to provide this thread with updates that render it pretty valuable! Kudos for your continued work.
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Thank you so much @AmbikaFan! I really enjoy researching the North American population of Asian and African elephants and creating studbooks based on the current populations.

Yi Qi said:
Are there any zoos that hold elephants in Mexico and in Central America? This is called the North American Asian Elephant Population thread after all.
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You make a valid point @Yi Qi. Unfortunately, I'm not well acquainted with the current population of Asian, and African, elephants in Mexico and Central America. However, I'll do some research and hopefully add those individuals to the thread.

AmbikaFan said:
I don't know how to upload the file, but the Chester Zoo (England), after losing two calves to EEHV, has announced that its 2-year-old female Indali has the virus. I mention this, despite our thread being devoted to the NA population, because they have used a procedure I haven't seen before. They now have an on-site lab, probably like NZP's, that processes thrice-weekly tests. They made this diagnosis so early that Indali has yet to show physical symptoms. They put her on anti-viral medication, presumably Tamcyclovir, AND flushed her system with plasma from the blood of an identically-type-matched elephant. This is pretty wonderful. Once the purple tongue and malaise set in, death usually follows within 24 hours. I know of calves who have survived EEHV, but this early, pre-symptom diagnosis and blood cleansing as a treatment is promising news.
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It's extremely uplifting to know that the Chester Zoo is doing everything in their power to ensure that another calf does not die from this awful virus. In addition, it's great to know that Chester has implemented early detection systems to diagnose the virus before any physical symptoms appear. I wholeheartedly believe that the way to fight off this disease is to detect the virus at its earliest stage and to implement vital medications and treatments at the earliest detection.

AmbikaFan said:
Has Columbus ever revealed the results of the necropsy on Phoebe's calf?
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I don't believe the Columbus Zoo ever revealed the official results of the neocrospy on Ellie. However, the Columbus Zoo gave an update on their Facebook page about her passing. Dr. Randy Junge, the zoo's Vice President of Animal Health, stated that the preliminary results suggest that Ellie died from an intestinal bacterial infection.

Has the Columbus Zoo made public the paternity of Ellie?
 
Yi Qi said:
I'm pretty sure African Lion Safari is in Hamilton or Kitchener, not Rockton (which I've never even heard of until now).
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Not only is it in Rockton, more importantly for our purposes, Rockton is the name the studbook uses for this facility. That might not seem so important when finding ALS as an institution in this resource, but when looking at individual elephants and their transfer history, the word "Rockton" signifies that a given animal was/is at ALS. Perhaps this originated when ALS switched to breeding Asians and the TAG thought "African" was confusing and so chose a delineator based on location. It's a good reminder here that they are one and the same.
 
Zorro said:
I would of thought that Rockton would have obtained a young bull from Emmen sired by the outstanding massive bull Radza!
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Well with no fewer than 7 little girls (!!!!), they will definitely need an unrelated breeding male like this in just a few years! These girls are all varying combinations of Tusko, Calvin (heavily represented in Europe and here), Motek/Warda (heavily represented via Alexander in Europe and by Phoebe and Lilly here), and Kitty, so finding a male who's totally unrelated could be challenging.
 
AmbikaFan said:
Well with no fewer than 7 little girls (!!!!), they will definitely need an unrelated breeding male like this in just a few years! These girls are all varying combinations of Tusko, Calvin (heavily represented in Europe and here), Motek/Warda (heavily represented via Alexander in Europe and by Phoebe and Lilly here), and Kitty, so finding a male who's totally unrelated could be challenging.
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There are a number of young bulls in Australia one of which was exported to Miami resenty
 
Zorro said:
There are a number of young bulls in Australia one of which was exported to Miami resenty
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I remember when this happened, and it could be a great thing. But I can't help wondering, Why on Earth Miami? They've had wild-born Dalip, who's sired exactly one living offspring, languishing there for years. A complete waste! How could a facility that's shown zero interest in breeding this valuable male manage to obtain what is, without doubt, the most genetically important Asian elephant in NA right now?!?! Even European Billy in Denver is from the Alexander line, showing that not even specimens from other continents are automatically good genetic outcrosses. And nearly all of our breeding zoos have either sires over 45 or sires whose genes are represented in several other animals. What's wrong with this picture?!
 
AmbikaFan said:
I remember when this happened, and it could be a great thing. But I can't help wondering, Why on Earth Miami? They've had wild-born Dalip, who's sired exactly one living offspring, languishing there for years. A complete waste! How could a facility that's shown zero interest in breeding this valuable male manage to obtain what is, without doubt, the most genetically important Asian elephant in NA right now?!?! Even European Billy in Denver is from the Alexander line, showing that not even specimens from other continents are automatically good genetic outcrosses. And nearly all of our breeding zoos have either sires over 45 or sires whose genes are represented in several other animals. What's wrong with this picture?!
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I think the plan was, once Dalip and Nellie die, to start a breeding program for the Asian elephants featuring Ongard as the breeder. I don’t know if this is still in works; what do you guys think?
 
Jambo said:
I think the plan was, once Dalip and Nellie die, to start a breeding program for the Asian elephants featuring Ongard as the breeder. I don’t know if this is still in works; what do you guys think?
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Ok feeling a bit sheepish. Why didn't I just tell you how I REALLY feel lol.

I know it must be easier to be a backseat driver or Monday-morning quarterback than to create a continent-wide SSP, but the logic about Miami all around just vexes me. First of all, it's typically the bulls that move around to keep matriarchal herds together. Then too, if there were females available to make Miami a breeding facility, why haven't they been sent there already to maximize Dalip's valuable genes? Or to LA for Billy to breed? Or to Dickerson for Indy to breed? Or Groucho? Or Sneezy? Most of these gentlemen don't have much time left, and we could be maximizing their potential now if some facility is truly willing to relinquish one or more breeding-age females.

Most importantly, Ongard--and Dalip--are genetic outcrosses to every female in NA, and Ongard should already be earmarked by the SSP for cows with the most over-represented genes--like everyone descended from combinations of Vance, Charlie, Calvin, Tusko, Alexander, and now Johnson/Samson. The SSP generally likes the idea of these young bulls going where they will ultimately breed and acclimate to both the facility and how to be bulls, like sending Kandula to OKC years before he will be bred. Both Dalip and Ongard are too valuable to be languishing unused in Miami.

One has to wonder if Miami just refuses to allow its males to relocate because they would then not fulfill the AZA minimum of three and would thus lose elephants altogether. They could easily take the less-genetically-valuable Jake and Chuck or Bodhi and Billy from Denver to make the requisite trio with Nellie. Why did the SSP let Miami claim such a valuable bull in the first place? Why doesn't the SSP compel Miami to be a team player and require these two to be transferred to facilities where they could be better utilized? Like even up the road to Ringling where the 5-6 Charlie/Vance girls of breeding age live? Dalip and Ongard are too valuable to be mere placeholders marking time in Miami.

I'm truly not trying to be a smart aleck. Given the plight of this population in NA human care, I am earnestly at a loss trying to figure out why these two are being wasted as "mere" exhibit animals.
 
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