Bristol Zoo Project NWCP to open in July as......

[pipaluk]

Surely a couple of giraffe and white rhino would be easy to obtain. There's no shortage of African lions in the UK and possibly hunting dogs as well?
I'm in agreement with pipaluk and KB, they need to have something to rival Noah's.

There are plenty of hybrid giraffe around and i'm sure white rhino would be obtainable. How about tigers, even white ones, if i dare to suggest it, but there are plenty of zoos looking to move on ageing , non breeding or cross breds. It's not the NWCP at the moment anyway.

 

[Brum]

There are plenty of hybrid giraffe around and i'm sure white rhino would be obtainable. How about tigers, even white ones, if i dare to suggest it, but there are plenty of zoos looking to move on ageing , non breeding or cross breds. It's not the NWCP at the moment anyway.

Tigers don't really fit with the 3 themed areas at the moment, chimps could be good for a display though, feature them in Congo until the (planned) bonobo arrive.
I did think tigers would be a fitting species though, my thinking being along the lines of gerenuk and okapi. Pure Bengal whites would be amazing but nigh on impossible. Pure Bengal would be fantastic though and also featured in the long term plan.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Tigers don't really fit with the 3 themed areas at the moment, chimps could be good for a display though, feature them in Congo until the (planned) bonobo arrive.
I did think tigers would be a fitting species though, my thinking being along the lines of gerenuk and okapi. Pure Bengal whites would be amazing but nigh on impossible. Pure Bengal would be fantastic though and also featured in the long term plan.

I really do not think that white tigers or Bengals is what NCWP stands for or the image it wishes to project. As a conservation minded park nothing could be more removed from the essence of its vision.

 

[pipaluk]

I really do not think that white tigers or Bengals is what NCWP stands for or the image it wishes to project. As a conservation minded park nothing could be more removed from the essence of its vision.

You are right really, NWCP shouldn't r
be getting involved with crossbred animals of any species if pure bred animals are available. It appears that the short term plans for the park have changed though, my suggestion of white tigers was not a serious one and this is probably a relic from its past that Bristol would want to distance itself from!

 

[Brum]

I really do not think that white tigers or Bengals is what NCWP stands for or the image it wishes to project. As a conservation minded park nothing could be more removed from the essence of its vision.

I wasn't thinking of the zoo Bengals that are currently around, I was hoping that they may import some pure founder stock from India. It can be done, it just appears no-one wants to. I totally agree that whites would be of no use whatsoever!

 

[JamesB]

Are the original plans for NCWP still available to view online? Could someone post a link for me? The links I tried from old threads are dead.

Thanks!

 

[Pertinax]

I have to agree on your theory of bringing in some of the larger mammals Bristol cant hold, at least to get the place off the ground. The original plans have to be compromised a bit, they have been already. What they need is people through the gates.

I believe they will have Eland, Zebra and Okapi to start with. Many of the other species mentioned would be fine too, but somehow I can't see Bristol obtaining many large species for short term display if they don't want to keep them longer term- the cost of building specifically for large animals like Giraffe and(White) Rhino would mean they would have to keep them longterm, and I don't think such species are included in their aims, though Black Rhino may have been. Also, they may be trying largely-(both will have Zebra, I know) not to duplicate what Noah's have already got too much, so there is a different range of species on show.

I agree they are in competition to an extent with the 'big' animals down the road at Noah's, but I would still expect WildPlace in time to develop as a quality park with the emphasis sticking, as in their original outline, on more endangered species in themed areas. In the short term, they are opening with a few 'token' larger animals- the Okapi will obviously stay longterm, but the Eland and Zebra (which don't require expensive housing) could move on if need be. For a predator, I think Hunting Dogs would fit their remit and I believe were in the original plan- again not too expensive to build for, and maybe something like Cheetahs too? Neither are at Noah's of course. Perhaps we will see them appear in the future.

 

[BongoHardwood]

Are the original plans for NCWP still available to view online? Could someone post a link for me? The links I tried from old threads are dead.

Thanks!

I think they are either non-viewable or very hard to find! I saved them at the time to look back on them (maybe I could send them to you if you want?)

With regards to mammalian species to be kept at the NWCP, here is a list by area:

British Ancient Woodland
Brown Bear
Wolf
Wolverine
Lynx

British Habitats
Harvest Mouse

China Montane Forest
Golden Monkey
Takin
Blue Sheep (Bharal)
Snow Leopard

Congo Tropical Forest
Bonobo
Okapi
Red River Hog
Bongo
Duiker
Hamlyn's Monkey
Black and White Colobus Monkey

Costa Rica Swamp House
Manatee

Georgia Wetlands
Raccoon Dog
European Otter

Indian Ocean Coral Reef
Livingstone's Fruit Bat
Mongoose Lemur

Nepal Grasslands
Asian Rhino
Sloth Bear
Banteng
Chital
Hog Deer
Swamp Deer (Barasingha)
Entellus Langur
Dhole
Bengal Tiger

Sumatra Rainforest
Sumatran Tiger
Lar Gibbon
Malayan Tapir
Orangutan
Short-clawed Otter

Tanzania Savannah
Giraffe
Greater Kudu
Zebra
Warthog
Gnu
Black Rhino
Cheetah
African Wild Dog
Dik-dik
Banded Mongoose
Zebu Cattle

Included in Wild Place but not plans for NWCP:

Savannah
Eland

Madagascar
Ringtailed Lemur
Mongoose Lemur
Red-bellied Lemur
African Pygmy Goats

So some of the species being discussed here (Bengal tigers, black rhino, cheetah, African hunting dogs etc.) are included in the plans, however plans change of course...

 

[Pertinax]

I was wrong, as I see Giraffe were included in the original plans as were Zebra.

It would be marvellous if this Park ever came to fruition with the range of species included in the original plans- for me it would represent one of the most interesting collections in the country.

Lets hope the small beginnings of 'WildPlace' can lead them to this eventually.

 

[IanRRobinson]

The park did hold Black Rhino in the 1960s/70s I believe; I wonder if the housing is usable? It might be no worse than the original Rhino housing at Whipsnade - or Chester!

 

[Pertinax]

The park did hold Black Rhino in the 1960s/70s I believe; I wonder if the housing is usable? It might be no worse than the original Rhino housing at Whipsnade - or Chester!

It was shocking- it was a domestic bull pen. I think only one Rhino ever lived in it, the male 'Rupert' which was later transferred to Whipsnade.

 

[Brum]

The original planned line-up of this park was amazing, I really hope it's a success and they can build up the collection to the NWCP standards that they set themselves. Bonobo, golden monkey, manatee, sloth bear, Bengal & Sumatran tigers... Wow!
If I remember correctly there were plans for gharials as one of the reptile highlights and the bird collection was also going to be spectacular.
It is a shame that none of the original links work anymore, I spent hours pouring over them and even downloaded the pdf of each section at one point but then deleted them once it looked like it was never going to happen.

 

[gentle lemur]

The park did hold Black Rhino in the 1960s/70s I believe; I wonder if the housing is usable? It might be no worse than the original Rhino housing at Whipsnade - or Chester!

Don't bet on it
The original black rhino house at Bristol Zoo is the current pygmy hippo enclosure; the outdoor part was a simple concrete yard, no larger than the current area for the hippos. But the rhinos bred successfully. I think the calves may have been transferred to the estate for a while before moving on to other zoos.
The first calf, Roger, became Chester's first black rhino: the Chester indoor accommodation is hardly changed (except that it's now off-show) but the outdoor paddocks have been enlarged.

On the NWCP theme, it might pay Bristol to get a few more easily obtainable species to add variety to their list. It wouldn't be too hard to add an ostrich, some guineafowl and the inevitable meerkats to give people a bit more for their money, possibly a few farm animals too

Alan

I see Pertinax has posted while I was writing this reply. He knows more than I do about Hollywood Towers, so my conjecture above is probably wrong.

 

[Pertinax]

Don't bet on it
The original black rhino house at Bristol Zoo is the current pygmy hippo enclosure; the outdoor part was a simple concrete yard, no larger than the current area for the hippos. But the rhinos bred successfully. I think the calves may have been transferred to the estate for a while before moving on to other zoos.

You are right about the Rhino House in the Zoo, the outdoor yard was tiny- as well as a clear memory, I also have two postcards of it. But 'Willie' and 'Stephanie' bred five times, though only the first two calves, Roger and Ronald, survived to maturity. The three subsequent female calves( Rhona, Rowena & Rebecca) all died before they were full grown though one or more may well have been transferred to Hollywood for a while. None of them got as far as another zoo though. One at least suffered repeated rectal prolapses- in those days everything at the Zoo was fed Evergreen Oak, maybe that could have been the cause?

The 2nd calf 'Ronald' went to Dublin, where he fathered a single calf- Ringo who -with a name change to Baringo- later moved to Howletts and became their original breeding male.

Hollywood Towers rhino accomodation was, as I said above, just a makeshift bull pen, probably still there for all I know!

 

[chizlit]

I'd be satisfied with the raccoon dogs alone for starters!

I think they are either non-viewable or very hard to find! I saved them at the time to look back on them (maybe I could send them to you if you want?)

With regards to mammalian species to be kept at the NWCP, here is a list by area:

British Ancient Woodland
Brown Bear
Wolf
Wolverine
Lynx

British Habitats
Harvest Mouse

China Montane Forest
Golden Monkey
Takin
Blue Sheep (Bharal)
Snow Leopard

Congo Tropical Forest
Bonobo
Okapi
Red River Hog
Bongo
Duiker
Hamlyn's Monkey
Black and White Colobus Monkey

Costa Rica Swamp House
Manatee

Georgia Wetlands
Raccoon Dog
European Otter

Indian Ocean Coral Reef
Livingstone's Fruit Bat
Mongoose Lemur

Nepal Grasslands
Asian Rhino
Sloth Bear
Banteng
Chital
Hog Deer
Swamp Deer (Barasingha)
Entellus Langur
Dhole
Bengal Tiger

Sumatra Rainforest
Sumatran Tiger
Lar Gibbon
Malayan Tapir
Orangutan
Short-clawed Otter

Tanzania Savannah
Giraffe
Greater Kudu
Zebra
Warthog
Gnu
Black Rhino
Cheetah
African Wild Dog
Dik-dik
Banded Mongoose
Zebu Cattle

Included in Wild Place but not plans for NWCP:

Savannah
Eland

Madagascar
Ringtailed Lemur
Mongoose Lemur
Red-bellied Lemur
African Pygmy Goats

So some of the species being discussed here (Bengal tigers, black rhino, cheetah, African hunting dogs etc.) are included in the plans, however plans change of course...

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Pure Bengal whites would be amazing but nigh on impossible. Pure Bengal would be fantastic though and also featured in the long term plan.

It'll never happen, but it would be kind of appropriate being as the last 100% proven pure Bengal outside of India was held at Bristol in the 1980's.

A white one at that, I believe.

 

[Brum]

It'll never happen, but it would be kind of appropriate being as the last 100% proven pure Bengal outside of India was held at Bristol in the 1980's.

A white one at that, I believe.

Indeed, one of their last tigers even had a spell at Dudley. I have a photo knocking around from the early eighties showing one in the Tecton pits, Pertinax filled in the gaps for me when I mentioned it!
That's my whole reasoning behind the Bengal suggestion, I don't want Bristol to sully themselves with crossbred individuals when there's a place just down the road with generics.

 

[Pertinax]

The last pure Indian tiger at Bristol(and in the UK) would have been the white male Akbar 2nd- as far as we know -and he may have gone to Dudley for a period too.

I think if Bristol ever manage to import pure Indian tigers at any stage if this park develops, then they will probably choose normals- if only to get away from the controversial aspect of keeping White tigers.

 

[zooboy28]

I think if Bristol ever manage to import pure Indian tigers at any stage if this park develops, then they will probably choose normals- if only to get away from the controversial aspect of keeping White tigers.

Are there actually any white pure Bengals anywhere? It would be awesome if they could get some Bengals.

 

[Pertinax]

Only within India to my knowledge.