NZ wildlife questions? Ask them here.

they were shot soon after release...a common fate of many of the introduced species. Things like deer often had to have legal protection to prevent hunting until they were established. But its a jolly good thing quolls didn't establish here!
 
Chlidonias said:
When it comes down to it, much as I love NZ wildlife, to your average zoo-goer they would seem a pretty boring lot of animals. Even if a zoo got takahe or kakapo, while we all would drool over it, most visitors would sort of give it a quick look and move on. Antipodes Island parakeet -- "little green parrot, wow"; kakapo -- "big green parrot...why's it in the dark? Can't they turn the lights on?"

If I had a zoo in England, say, and I wanted a NZ section (which I would), I would be trying to get Antips, NZ pigeon, tui, blue duck, kaka....but for most visitors it would just be like, "oh birds, OK, where's the monkeys"
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Thanks for replying to my answers. About the "visitor quality": You're not telling me something new here...;) However, maybe the apt setting/presentation could improve that: imagine a zoo section called "The Lost World of Gondwana" (with a teeth-showing T.Rex-statue at the entrance...) or any other of those silly zoo exhibit titles, showing interesting examples of New Zealand's and New Caledonia's flora and fauna, with a walk-in aviary with NZ birds and a life-size model of a female Giant Moa-hunted-by-an-harpagornis-etc. hidden in the green? The curious (some might even call it rude;) ) character of the Weka might be just as charming for average zoo visitors as the Grey-winged Trumpeter is now in many zoos. Which makes me ask: Wekas in non-NZ zoos? And the Stuttgart kakas are breeding...well; they poisoned their chicks accidently, but now they hopefully don't any longer.

One (last?) question: any new sightings of the "Fireman kiwi"? Or the Waitoreke? ;)
 
Sun Wukong said:
Wekas in non-NZ zoos? And the Stuttgart kakas are breeding...well; they poisoned their chicks accidently, but now they hopefully don't any longer.

One (last?) question: any new sightings of the "Fireman kiwi"? Or the Waitoreke? ;)
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I only assume there are still weka overseas, many have been sent away over the years.

The "fireman kiwi" was probably the great spotted kiwi (at that time not yet known to science). The name apparently derived (possibly) from the fact that they go down burrows, like the old-time firemen going down mines to extinguish fires. Another suggestion was from the call.

The waitoreke is a myth, composed of Maori folklore and various European-introduced mammals such as possums, ferrets, etc. When one was shot and the skin and skull presented for examination it turned out to be one of those quolls mentioned earlier. Suggestions that the creature may be a population of otters left behind by random visiting Asian fishermen (or that they were a stray population of sea otters as Heuvelmans would say) is ridiculous. An intriguing possibility may be that they are a relict platypus-like monotreme from Gondwana days but this too is pretty far-fetched.
 
Chlidonias said:
Eradication is impossible for most species now in NZ. The hunting community gets all het up if the suggestion of shooting out tahr for example is brought up. (And of course the Government always pays attention to any "minority" groups -- a rather big minority group in this case! -- so while tahr could be feasibly eliminated it won't happen). The best that can happen is local control by trapping and shooting. There is talk of a possum contraceptive or virus (but obviously that's a bit of a worry in itself with Australia right next door).
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what I was saying here was only about mammals by the way. Most of the birds in NZ aren't much of a problem (most are restricted to human-created habitats such as farmland and gardens). The rainbow lorikeets were moved in on by DoC/MaF in an attempt to eradicate them to prevent them spreading into the forests and competing with native honeyeaters. The bulbuls were wiped out (?) by shooting although there are occasional sightings still. Rooks are kept at low numbers by shooting and poisoning. Canada geese and black swans are culled regularly (often through egg-pricking rather than shooting). If we could get rid of mynahs, starlings and magpies that would be great but its not going to happen.
 
I heard the term "Fireman" originated from the sound the animal was said to make.

And about the waitoreke: what struck me when seeing specimen of Hydromys chrysogaster in Frankfurt, Poznan and Rotterdam zoo: couldn't it be an unknown NZ form of a Hydromyini species?
 
Please do not consider me an ignorant, infantile fool. I'm not talking about "swimming" or "log-drifting" (the ever popular island "conquest" theory for rodents) here; maybe specimen of a common ancestor of the modern Hydromyini were "aboard" when the NZ landmass drifted away from Gondwana roughly 85 million years ago. Otherwise I might also ask how modern Hydromyini made it to New Guinea-or, as one of very few Eutherias, Australia? Just by "swimming"?
Maybe it doesn't even have to be a close Hydromyini-relative, but could be the result of a convergent evolution to a similar ecological niche (think of the South American Ichthyomyini)! All in all as equally (im)plausible as mysterious monotremata or escaped otters...;)
 
Chlidonias,

I am rather shocked the DoC is not stronger in Kiwiland. For goodness sake we have seen on other continents what introduction of all kinds of non natives can produce in terms of biodiversity loss.

Why is biodiversity loss less important than the whims of the hunting community in NZ? Most mammal introductions have proven to be a disaster for native wildlife. When will we ever learn something ...???? :( :mad:
 
Sun Wukong said:
Please do not consider me an ignorant, infantile fool. I'm not talking about "swimming" or "log-drifting" (the ever popular island "conquest" theory for rodents) here; maybe specimen of a common ancestor of the modern Hydromyini were "aboard" when the NZ landmass drifted away from Gondwana roughly 85 million years ago. Otherwise I might also ask how modern Hydromyini made it to New Guinea-or, as one of very few Eutherias, Australia? Just by "swimming"?
Maybe it doesn't even have to be a close Hydromyini-relative, but could be the result of a convergent evolution to a similar ecological niche (think of the South American Ichthyomyini)! All in all as equally (im)plausible as mysterious monotremata or escaped otters...;)
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I certainly don't think you are a fool of any description; apologies if that was the impression you got.

I don't know much about the evolution of rodents in Gondwanaland so can't comment on that, but I do find it very unlikely that any rodent would occur in NZ naturally. The following link refers to fossil mammal bones found in Otago last year (along with crocodilian and snake fossils, which are obviously all VERY interesting finds in NZ). Cryptozoologists no doubt will grasp at this as "proof" that the waitoreke must have been real. But Miocene bones are not the same as living mammals today. (ps, the "mouse" in the title of the article is journalistic licence)

Fossils reveal New Zealand's indigenous 'mouse' - life - 11 December 2006 - New Scientist
 
jelle said:
Chlidonias,

I am rather shocked the DoC is not stronger in Kiwiland. For goodness sake we have seen on other continents what introduction of all kinds of non natives can produce in terms of biodiversity loss.

Why is biodiversity loss less important than the whims of the hunting community in NZ? Most mammal introductions have proven to be a disaster for native wildlife. When will we ever learn something ...???? :( :mad:
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DoC's pretty strong in some respects, weak in others. The government likes tourist dollars and according to the hunter lot, foreign hunters will pay big money to come here to shoot a tahr or a wapiti. Also many hunters are selfish idiots. There have been threats made that possums and stoats will be released on sanctuaries like Kapiti Island if DoC goes ahead with plans of this or that. There is a big anti-1080 movement over here, for example, led by ignorant people. Rabbit Calicivirus was illegally introduced by farmers when the government wanted to test it first to make sure it wouldn't affect the native bats or kiwi. Things like pigs, deer and wallabies are often released into new areas by hunters. NZ has a clean green image but in many ways DoC is fighting an uphill battle against certain sectors of the population.
 
NZ was almost totally submerged undersea in Oligocene, and this probably wiped out native crocodiles and mammals.

Takahe would be great ambassador animal in European zoos. Big, colorful, flightless and apparently easy to breed.

BTW, how New Zealand looked like in Ice Age? I heard that it was mostly tundra. If so, how native reptiles, moas and parrots survived?
 
No offence taken. Thanks again for Your answer and the hint with the fossil; quite interesting.

Whether Takahes really would be great crowpleasers is hard to say; the Purple Swamphen at e.g. Leipzig Zoo aren't that popular; and I think that they even had to seperate the male from the visitors due to becoming too aggressive.
Maybe the kakapos would be more popular; I remember an old account of one kept as a pet-seemed to have been one charming fellow...;)
 
Jurek7 said:
NZ was almost totally submerged undersea in Oligocene, and this probably wiped out native crocodiles and mammals.

Takahe would be great ambassador animal in European zoos. Big, colorful, flightless and apparently easy to breed.

BTW, how New Zealand looked like in Ice Age? I heard that it was mostly tundra. If so, how native reptiles, moas and parrots survived?
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NZ was reduced to its smallest land extent during the Oligocene but it wasn't "almost totally submerged" (this has been said before in various books etc, even that it was ENTIRELY submerged, which is obviously not true), rather it was reduced to a series of small islands. This may be a reason for the great diversity of species in NZ, from having numerous small populations diversifying in isolation. Also I would point out that the Oligocene was BEFORE the Miocene -- the crocs, snakes and mammals were still here for millions of years AFTER the Oligocene.

In the last ice age there was still a lot of forest as well as extensive grasslands and swamplands. The forest was greatly reduced from what was there before and after but there was still ample available for forest-dwelling species. NZ did not have large ice-sheets such as in Europe etc. All but one of NZ's reptiles are live-bearers and are well-adapted to cooler climates.
 
Sun Wukong said:
No offence taken. Thanks again for Your answer and the hint with the fossil; quite interesting.

Whether Takahes really would be great crowpleasers is hard to say; the Purple Swamphen at e.g. Leipzig Zoo aren't that popular; and I think that they even had to seperate the male from the visitors due to becoming too aggressive.
Maybe the kakapos would be more popular; I remember an old account of one kept as a pet-seemed to have been one charming fellow...;)
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kakapo are fantastic birds (not that I've seen a live one in person but I've seen them on tv and read a lot about them). They were commonly kept as "pets" by bushmen, and there were a few sent overseas (to London Zoo for instance). They do appear to be real characters when in captivity.
 
Have You read the passage about kakapos in " Last Chance to See"? Seems they also won favour with Douglas Adams...;)
Too bad they are that rare; dog & budgie in one-what a marvellous pet that would be! ;)
 
No, really? I always thought 86 birds could be easily & fairly distributed to 6 billion people, couldn't they? jk
 
Chlidonias - you mentioned 1080 being used in NZ although there is opposition to it. I am familiar with its use in Western Australia, but there the plant it is derived from is native and so the native animals are all immune to the poison. How can it be used elsewhere without risking local wildlife which may be attracted to the baits, which I understand has happened where it has been used in the Eastern states of Australia?

On a separate note - I saw a kakapo last week! Unfortunately as it was daytime it was not very active. Or maybe that's because it was stuffed in 1886...
 
here is the DoC page regarding 1080, which is pretty self-explanatory

1080: Animal pest control

critics bring up all sorts of half-formed rubbish to support their claims, such as that NZ is the biggest user of 1080 whereas other countries have outlawed its use (think about this one: other countries are trying to preserve their own mammal species so of course they're not going to be spreading mammal toxins around everywhere. In NZ we are trying to wipe foreign mammals out and have no at-risk mammals to worry about being poisoned; the situations are entirely different). They also twist facts to suit their own agendas. A favourite is that the forests are silent after 1080 drops, implying that all the birds have been poisoned -- anyone who has been in a NZ forest knows that they are pretty silent to begin with, because all the birds have been wiped out by the mammals!

Basically the poisoned baits are made as unattractive to non-mammals as possible; surveys are undertaken before and after drops to assess effects on non-target species; in particular areas (such as on islands) certain species may be removed first as a precaution (eg, on Kapiti Island, recently rid of Norway rats, many little spotted kiwi and weka among other birds, as well as short-tailed bats, were caught and held in captivity until after poisoning, while remaining wild birds were monitored for affects, of which there were very few -- although one anti-1080 "publication" that I read on a shop wall claimed 100% mortality of kiwi!)
 
Chlidonias,

I've read that NZ's only native mammals are two species of bats and saw on Attenborough's Life of Mammals that they (one or both) do a lot of feeding on the ground...

Can you elaborate on these species..?

How has 1080, previously mentioned and predation affected them..?

How is their status in the wild and are there any in captivity..?

Thanks in advance...
 
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