ZSL London Zoo Old times of the London Zoo

[Norwegian moose]

I think this maybe have been done before, but I would like to have some more imformation about the good old times of the London Zoo, 1970s and back. The animal species collection then was maybe the largest in the world, even surpasing Berlin, although the conditions the animals was kept in was far from ideal. I would like to have answers to these questions about London Zoo:

1. How many animal species have the London Zoo ever kept ? (a number, or a rough estimate).
2. Can anyone give me a list or at least say some examples of what animal species where kept in the bird houses, the reptile house and the small mammal house ?
3. Are there any animal species kept in London Zoo today, that was not kept in earlier times (1970s and back ?)
4. How many animal species that are today extinct have the London kept, I know about thylachine, quagga, and dodo, are there anymore ?

 

[sooty mangabey]

4. How many animal species that are today extinct have the London kept, I know about thylachine, quagga, and dodo, are there anymore ?

Dodo! Given that they became extinct in the late 1600s, none has, sadly, ever been seen at London Zoo. I believe that the Borth Animalarium maintained a breeding pair for several years, however.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Now, now sooty,,,,

A good starting point for you, Nm, would be to obtain a copy of "London Zoo in Old Photographs" by John Edwards. Not only does this show photos of Thylacine, Quagga, Syrian and Nubian Wild Ass, Bubal Hartebeest and Pink-headed Duck (the last not taken at London), it talks about the development of the Society and the Zoo from its early days.

I doubt if London was much more than 3rd or 4th in the world by the 1970s - and it most certainly was not perfect then. A lot of badly planned architecture in the 1960s, a failure to move larger mammals to Whipsnade, a failure to get extra land from the Royal Park at a time when it probably could have been obtained without too much difficulty, and above else a lack of a hard-headed business plan for the Zoos' long-term development were all building up the problems that would explode in the early 1990s.

But yes, you could spend a full day in the Zoo forty years ago and not see everything.

 

[Norwegian moose]

Quote: Dodo! Given that they became extinct in the late 1600s, none has, sadly, ever been seen at London Zoo. I believe that the Borth Animalarium maintained a breeding pair for several years, however.

Okay Sooty Mangabey I stand corected the London Zoo have maybe not held dodo, I just saw an episode of a cartoon, where they said that London Zoo used to have dodo, but of course I shouldnt relay on that kind of sources.

 

[Tim May]

4. How many animal species that are today extinct have the London kept, I know about thylachine, quagga, and dodo, are there anymore ?

This has been discussed on other threads but London Zoo had three quaggas and twenty thylacines.

Another noteworthy extinct species, once at held London Zoo, was the Falkland Island "wolf"; London Zoo had four specimens (and I am unaware of any other zoo ever having this species in the collection).

Of course, as "Sooty" has pointed out London Zoo never had dodos. However, it is interesting to note that a live dodo was exhibited in London in 1638.

 

[Brum]

However, it is interesting to note that a live dodo was exhibited in London in 1638.

Completely off-topic but what is this? Tell me more Tim, tell me more! Please! Where was this? I'll take a guess at The Tower Menagerie?

 

[gentle lemur]

I'll attempt to answer question 3.
There are a few mammals in the zoo (or kept there recently) that were not kept in the 1970s, including

• Alaotra bamboo lemur
• aye aye (although they aren't on display)
• Australian water rats
• giant jumping rat
• golden-headed lion tamarin
• hunting dog
• Indian lion
• Francois langur
• tamandua

I'm working from memory only, so there may be some mistakes here. Of course the number of mammals that are no longer kept is much larger.

Alan

 

[Chlidonias]

Completely off-topic but what is this? Tell me more Tim, tell me more! Please! Where was this? I'll take a guess at The Tower Menagerie?

it was in a sideshow/curiosity sort of shop (i.e. not a zoo or animal collection per se), and the attraction was that it was fed on pebbles.

 

[Tim May]

Of course, as "Sooty" has pointed out London Zoo never had dodos. However, it is interesting to note that a live dodo was exhibited in London in 1638.

Completely off-topic but what is this? Tell me more Tim, tell me more! Please! Where was this? I'll take a guess at The Tower Menagerie?

No it wasn’t at the Tower Menagerie.

Numerous books and articles report that Sir Hamon L’ Estrange saw a “great fowl called a dodo” exhibited in London in 1638.

It seems to be generally accepted that it really was a dodo. It has been suggested by some authors that this was probably the dodo that was subsequently acquired by Tradescant’s Museum, then by the Ashmolean Museum and the remains of this specimen are now in the Oxford University Zoology Museum.

 

[Brum]

No it wasn’t at the Tower Menagerie.

Numerous books and articles report that Sir Hamon L’ Estrange saw a “great fowl called a dodo” exhibited in London in 1638.

It seems to be generally accepted that it really was a dodo. It has been suggested by some authors that this was probably the dodo that was subsequently acquired by Tradescant’s Museum, then by the Ashmolean Museum and the remains of this specimen are now in the Oxford University Zoology Museum.

Interesting stuff, am I right in saying the fragments in the Oxford museum are the most complete dodo remains in existence? I'm sure I've read that all museum specimens are mounted fakes and are the result of creative taxidermy.

 

[Tim May]

Interesting stuff, am I right in saying the fragments in the Oxford museum are the most complete dodo remains in existence? I'm sure I've read that all museum specimens are mounted fakes and are the result of creative taxidermy.

Yes the stuffed “dodos” displayed in museums are fakes; they are models covered with (normally) chicken’s feathers.

The head and one of the feet of the Ashmolean Museum dodo are now in the Oxford University Zoology Museum. (As mentioned earlier, some authors have suggested these are the remains of the live London dodo but I don’t think anybody knows for sure.)

There is an often repeated story that it was decided to burn the genuine stuffed dodo in the Ashmolean Museum as it was in a bad condition; consequently, a bonfire was built outside the museum in 1755 but, fortunately, the dodo's head and one of its feet were rescued from the flames.

However, according to the recent publication “The Dodo and the Solitaire: A Natural History” (Jolyon C. Parish; 2013) this is a myth and there is no evidence of a fire although it certainly makes a good story!

Anyway we’ve probably digressed enough from the theme of London Zoo.....

 

[Pertinax]

There are a few mammals in the zoo (or kept there recently) that were not kept in the 1970s, including

• Alaotra bamboo lemur
• aye aye (although they aren't on display)
• Australian water rats
• giant jumping rat
• golden-headed lion tamarin
• hunting dog
• Indian lion
• Francois langur
• tamandua

I'm working from memory only, so there may be some mistakes here.

So am I...

I think there was a single male Hunting Dog in the 'dog pens' behind the Sealion stand.

Other species I can think of not held in that era would be; Anoa, Bearded Pig, Warthog, R.R. Hog(gone to Whipsnade now) Aardvark(?) Okapi( I can't remember when they started with them again? '80's?)

 

[Brum]

Yes the stuffed “dodos” displayed in museums are fakes; they are models covered with (normally) chicken’s feathers.

The head and one of the feet of the Ashmolean Museum dodo are now in the Oxford University Zoology Museum. (As mentioned earlier, some authors have suggested these are the remains of the live London dodo but I don’t think anybody knows for sure.)

There is an often repeated story that it was decided to burn the genuine stuffed dodo in the Ashmolean Museum as it was in a bad condition; consequently, a bonfire was built outside the museum in 1755 but, fortunately, the dodo's head and one of its feet were rescued from the flames.

However, according to the recent publication “The Dodo and the Solitaire: A Natural History” (Jolyon C. Parish; 2013) this is a myth and there is no evidence of a fire although it certainly makes a good story!

Anyway we’ve probably digressed enough from the theme of London Zoo.....

That's an extremely interesting tale, I never thought a live dodo would have landed on our shores and I've never heard anything about the burning rumour.

And as for digressing, Norwegian Moose was the one who brought up dodos in London so I think we're well on topic!

 

[pipaluk]

So am I...

I think there was a single male Hunting Dog in the 'dog pens' behind the Sealion stand.

Other species I can think of not held in that era would be; Anoa, Bearded Pig, Warthog, R.R. Hog(gone to Whipsnade now) Aardvark(?) Okapi( I can't remember when they started with them again? '80's?)

I think Okapi returned in 1979 or 80, so they certainly weren't there for most of the 70s, if any of it.
I don't think they held malayan tapir continuously through the 70s, though i remember seeing one once in part of what is still the female/calf enclosure on the Cotton Terraces.
Just a couple of questions relating to Gentle Lemur's list:
Where are the gentle lemurs kept currently? I didn't see them on my last 3 visits in the past year.
Did London not have AyeAye in the 70s ? i thought they had them in the Clore around that time, but probably wrong!

 

[IanRRobinson]

It has been observed that a bird that was hardy enough to cope with several months' close confinement on a 17th century sailing ship might well have acclimatised in captivity.

If it had lingered on for another century, or if Mauritius had stayed undiscovered until then with the more focussed interest in the natural world seen during the Enlightenment, and the number of menageries that developed in Europe at that time, the Dodo might still be with us.

As Gerald Durrell put it. "I am honestly very annoyed that I will never get the chance to see a Dodo".

 

[Pertinax]

As Gerald Durrell put it. "I am honestly very annoyed that I will never get the chance to see a Dodo".

I feel that about a number of extinct species- most particularly the Thylacine of course.

 

[Shirokuma]

Gentle lemurs are, I think, in the off show area of the Clore. I'm sure I caught a glimpse of an enclosure once.

 

[pipaluk]

Gentle lemurs are, I think, in the off show area of the Clore. I'm sure I caught a glimpse of an enclosure once.

Thanks, at least that explains why i haven't seen them. A shame, just like with the AyeAye! I've said it before but also a shame that so much of the Clore has gone to waste.

 

[Tim May]

I think Okapi returned in 1979 or 80, so they certainly weren't there for most of the 70s, if any of it.

Indeed, the okapi returned to London Zoo in 1979; these were the first okapi at London Zoo since the early 1950s.

Did London not have AyeAye in the 70s ? i thought they had them in the Clore around that time, but probably wrong!

No, London Zoo didn’t have aye-ayes in the 1970s.

The first ayes-ayes I ever saw were at Vincennes (Paris) in 1987; these were the first aye-ayes in Europe in recent times (although, of course, London had aye-aye long ago).

 

[pipaluk]

Indeed, the okapi returned to London Zoo in 1979; these were the first okapi at London Zoo since the early 1950s.



No, London Zoo didn’t have aye-ayes in the 1970s.

The first ayes-ayes I ever saw were at Vincennes (Paris) in 1987; these were the first aye-ayes in Europe in recent times (although, of course, London had aye-aye long ago).

Thanks for the information Tim, at least it's only some of my memory that has gone!