I'm wondering if the current Dianas(or one or other of them at least) are descended from those originals- I think maybe yes?
ZSL London Zoo Old times of the London Zoo
- Thread starter Norwegian moose
- Start date
I'm wondering if the current Dianas(or one or other of them at least) are descended from those originals- I think maybe yes?
I tried to trace the ancestry of these once. At this time I think both Bristol and Twycross had breeding groups and ZSL received some from each to make up a group. It is very sad all three groups are long gone now- Entellus make a splendid exhibit under the right circumstances- at London the Mappin terraces suited them well though they were rather distant-IMO better than the Bears!
The very last Langurs from these groups were a few kept at Combe Martin Park in Devon, but they no longer have them.
There were still 2 langurs left in the enclosure next to the mangabeys when i returned to London for the first time in many years in 2009, but by my next visit in early 2010 they had gone.
Agreed:- I don’t think that previous geladas (which I also remember in the old Monkey House) were still at the zoo when this new group were acquired for the recently opened Sobell Pavilions.
Norwegian moose
Well-Known Member
Thank you folks for filling up my thread with interesting information. But so far are most of the questions I have asked unanswered. It would be nice if some one who know the answers can answered them. Thanks in advance !
I'm almost 100% certain the Sobell group of Geladas were all from Jersey and the London pair disappeared when the old Monkey House closed.
Other monkeys I remember in the old house (apart from the Ape section);
1.1 Olive baboons( 'Ebb' & 'Flo')
2.3 Pigtailed Macaques.
1.2 Drill.
1.1 Mandrill
0.1 Mandrill(mother of above)
Talapoins.
Assamese Macaque(1)
1.0 Hamlyn's Monkey
0.1 Lion-tailed macaque.
Albino Mona/Campbells Monkey.
Sooty Mangabey?
There must have been others in the other cages, but I don't remember what.
After more than forty years I cannot recall the full list of species but my memories are similar to yours (although I didn't know the names of the olive baboons; neither did I remember the exact numbers).
I'm sure at times there were also patas monkeys, hamadryas baboons, a species of spot-nosed guenon and Barbary macaques. I also recall a red uakari too.
The albino mona monkey was always a particular favourite of mine. I remember that for a while this animal shared a cage with a red uakari and these two unlikely companions seemed to get on very well.
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I mistook Sobell for Clore last night. Hence the list of small mammals.
Anyway a list of animals exhibited in the Sobell Pavillions was printed in Zoo Yearbook volume 16. The list is from October 1971 until July 1975.
Lowland Gorilla Gorilla gorilla gorilla 2
Bornean Orang Utan Pongo pygmaeus pygmaeus 12 - 6 bred (2 DNS)
Chimpanzee Pan troglodytes 8 - 2 bred
Grey Gibbon Hylobates moloch 3
Diana Monkey Cercopithecus diana 2
Vervet Monkey Cercopithecus aethiops pygerythrus 2 - 4 bred (1 DNS)
Mandrill Mandrillus sphinx 4 - 2 bred (1 DNS)
Olive Baboon Papio anubis 2
Gelada Theropithecus gelada 6 - 2 bred
Sooty Mangabey Cercocebus torquatus atys 6 - 1 bred
Pig-tailed Macaque Macaca nemestrina 12 - 9 bred (1 DNS)
Black Spider Monkey Ateles paniscus 3
Long-haired Spider Monkey Ateles belzebuth 4
Brown Capuchin Cebus apella 9 - 7 bred (1 DNS)
The figure for orang utans includes specimens also housed elsewhere within the zoo.
Anyway a list of animals exhibited in the Sobell Pavillions was printed in Zoo Yearbook volume 16. The list is from October 1971 until July 1975.
Lowland Gorilla Gorilla gorilla gorilla 2
Bornean Orang Utan Pongo pygmaeus pygmaeus 12 - 6 bred (2 DNS)
Chimpanzee Pan troglodytes 8 - 2 bred
Grey Gibbon Hylobates moloch 3
Diana Monkey Cercopithecus diana 2
Vervet Monkey Cercopithecus aethiops pygerythrus 2 - 4 bred (1 DNS)
Mandrill Mandrillus sphinx 4 - 2 bred (1 DNS)
Olive Baboon Papio anubis 2
Gelada Theropithecus gelada 6 - 2 bred
Sooty Mangabey Cercocebus torquatus atys 6 - 1 bred
Pig-tailed Macaque Macaca nemestrina 12 - 9 bred (1 DNS)
Black Spider Monkey Ateles paniscus 3
Long-haired Spider Monkey Ateles belzebuth 4
Brown Capuchin Cebus apella 9 - 7 bred (1 DNS)
The figure for orang utans includes specimens also housed elsewhere within the zoo.
Thanks for posting this list Rob.
As discussed in another thread, the trio of grey gibbons were moved from Whipsnade when the Sobell Pavilions opened.
Although listed as Hylobates moloch they were really Hylobates muelleri although, of course, in those days the two forms were considered conspecific.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Just interrupting to say what wonderful names!
Mike, further to my earlier post, I’ve now had time to go through various editions of the ZSL “List of Vertebrated Animals” volumes.
I can confirm that the huia the ZSL acquired in 1870 (i.e. the one drawn by Laura Buller) was purchased on 18th May 1870.
The only other reference I could find to a huia was of a female that was deposited at the zoo on 22nd April 1886 and subsequently presented to the ZSL by Sir Walter Buller on 2nd March 1887.(At first I thought this was referring to two separate individuals but it appears that it was the same bird that was first deposited at the zoo and then presented to the society almost a year later.)
I can find no reference in these lists to two male birds at London Zoo in the 1880s.
To go back to Norwegian Moose's third question about species that are kept now (or have been kept recently) that were not kept in the 1970s or earlier. Again I am relying mainly on memory and I may have missed many species out, so I am prepared to be corrected.
Birds
Reptiles
Amphibia
I have not included species like brolga, as I think it very likely that specimens were kept many years ago (possibly true of pygmy geese and Komodo dragons too): for the most part these are species which have only been kept in zoos in the past twenty years or so.
Alan
Birds
- African pygmy goose
- blue-crowned lory
- Montserrat oriole
- Socorro dove
Reptiles
- blue-spotted tree monitor
- Boelen's python
- Komodo dragon
- pig-nosed turtle (Fly River turtle)
- Utilan iguana
Amphibia
- Mallorcan midwife toad
- mountain chicken
- Vietnamese mossy frog
I have not included species like brolga, as I think it very likely that specimens were kept many years ago (possibly true of pygmy geese and Komodo dragons too): for the most part these are species which have only been kept in zoos in the past twenty years or so.
Alan
London Zoo had two Komodo "dragons" in the 1930s; I think that one of these is currently on display in the Tring Zoological Museum.
They were taken I believe from the Daily Mirror(?) cartoon of the same name, featuring an old couple...
Also from memory the three Mandrills in the old Monkey house were 'Fete'(the mother) and 'Fritz' and 'Fingers'- the sibling pair of breeders which founded the group in the Sobell Pavilions..
At least one Mandrill from this line came I think to Paignton and bred there in the past, but as you know, they aren't represented in the present group.
It would be interesting to know if the current Dianas are descended in part from these- I think they might be.
The extra Orangs were housed in the circular Lubetkin GorillaHouse.
Indeed, this Australian crane lived in London Zoo's Stork and Ostrich House for many years.
After this crane ‘disappeared’ from London Zoo, I saw it once at Stagsden Bird Gardens and then again a number of times at Whipsnade; it was unquestionably the same bird as its strange crossed beak provided an unmistakeable means of identification.
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There is a photograph of "Sport" the Brolga and quite a few pages about it (it is described as a male) in Noel Virtue's book "Among the Animals". Mr Virtue says the bird had arrived from Taronga in 1954 (he adds a Saddle-billed Stork, "Philippa", had lived in the same house since 1947).
Got Noel Virtue's book. I'm almost certain 'Sport' [who appeared to have a fairly nasty disposition] was eventually sexed as a female & known in her latter years as Sheila.
Just as an aside; what happened to the crane collection that Whipsnade gathered briefly after Stagsden closed, one of which at least [this Brolga] came from there? I visited Whipsnade a few years later, and was disappointed to see three Cranes only -- pair of Stanley's & one Manchurian
Just as an aside; what happened to the crane collection that Whipsnade gathered briefly after Stagsden closed, one of which at least [this Brolga] came from there? I visited Whipsnade a few years later, and was disappointed to see three Cranes only -- pair of Stanley's & one Manchurian