I would say that if this chimp isn't 71 then its because of innaccurate records of her earlier life, rather than a deliberate effort to mislead. I think even a commercially driven Safari park(as they all are) is unlikely to give such a precise age for one of its animals unless it at least believes it is true. Whether she is really such a great age is debatable perhaps.
Oldest Chimpanzees in Zoos of the world
- Thread starter Zebraduiker
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I would say that if this chimp isn't 71 then its because of innaccurate records of her earlier life, rather than a deliberate effort to mislead. I think even a commercially driven Safari park(as they all are) is unlikely to give such a precise age for one of its animals unless it at least believes it is true. Whether she is really such a great age is debatable perhaps.
That's definately an unfair statement: The UK's safari parks cut their links with Chipperfield many years ago, and have done more beyond the profit venture: You can't push aside Woburn's work with the Pere David's Deer and Longleat's association with the Tusk Trust and the Diane Fossey Foundation. Yes, the animals are not totally free, but that doesn't mean they live bad lives. Longleat's hippos are practically wild animals!
Even if they do seem more commercial, they are no more commercial than zoos in my opinion. Loads of zoos boast to have "the UK's only" etc, and they still have the same drawcard species like meerkats. Safari parks are no more likely to boast about having the worlds oldest chimp than a zoo.
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Lion Park Safari in FL is AZA certified.
Nothing unusual about that, Ash.
If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger!
If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger!
Vis a vis the comment about Pere Davids Deer ,the conservation of that species has almost nothing to do with the Safari park at Woburn-in my book on british zoos i list the deer park as a seperate establishment .I also note that a fabulous 16 of 72 elephants in Britain are in safari parks - i thought they had lots of room!At West Midlands, Knowsley and Blair Drummond I can go on a helterskelter but endangered ungulates are perhaps more difficult to find,And I shouldnt dismiss any conservational effort at all but it seems ironic to me that Longleat should send its elephants away whilst at the same time making a contribution to the Tusk Trust [ i know which is cheaper!].Sorry to go off Chimp longevity - Weigl couldnt find a Chimp over 60 back in 2005 and i tend to believe his exhaustive research and unbiased opinion,Off for my Turkey now- merry christmas!
Richard Weigl just published a short note in International ZOo News (Vol 56, No 1; pp24-25) about "cheeta - the world oldest chimpanzee"
He argues that Cheeta is indeed played by various chimp 'actors', who did not seem to age throughout several Tarzan movies.
According to Weigl the oldest known chimpanzee is a male named Kongo, who's born on the 28 February 1948, in one of Bob and Mae Noell's show trucks, so he's at least 60 years old (if you believe that he has not been "replaced" by another Kongo somewhere in his life); Fifi in Taronga died at 60 years old, but was wildborn and estimated birth in 1947, arrived in St Louis in 1948, and died in Taronga on 19 july 2007.
He argues that Cheeta is indeed played by various chimp 'actors', who did not seem to age throughout several Tarzan movies.
According to Weigl the oldest known chimpanzee is a male named Kongo, who's born on the 28 February 1948, in one of Bob and Mae Noell's show trucks, so he's at least 60 years old (if you believe that he has not been "replaced" by another Kongo somewhere in his life); Fifi in Taronga died at 60 years old, but was wildborn and estimated birth in 1947, arrived in St Louis in 1948, and died in Taronga on 19 july 2007.
I suppose that depends on how old (approximately) it was when it was captured. A couple of the chimps that moved from Penscynor to Cefn-yr-Erw are supposed to be well over 40.
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How up-to-date is their literature? According to it:
Caehopkin
One born Dublin Zoo, three born Penscynor, one from the University of London via London Zoo and Chester Zoo, One via London Zoo and Penscynor, the two born at Southport Zoo and just one pet.
Of them, three are wild-caught, but two are via London and Chester and only one just a pet.
There were the ones from Germany and Belgium (the latter was also a pet) but I'm not sure they're current.
Ah them having three wildcaught individuals sounds about right, not entirely sure of their history though. I tried volunteering there but didn't hang around to long for a few reasons, so I didn't really learn much about the chimp's histories. I just heard that 3 of them were ex pets, I imagine the info I got given must have been wrong in this case.
In theory it should be the other way round. An 'expet' chimp has been in contact with people since a very early age- as only young chimps ever become 'pets'- so virtually its whole lifehistory should be traceable, making accurate age assessment possible. But I accept the origins of many such chimps become lost/confused as they often change homes frequently in their earlier lives.
Just for the record, Woburn's conservation work with Pere David's deer (and other species like Bison and Prezwalski horses) took place decades before the Safari park was ever established. Though both form part of the Duke of Bedford's enormous estate, Woburn Deer Park & Woburn Safari Park have very little/no connection.
there are many number of chimps that have been believed to live near to, and past, 70 years of age. and there are even more chimps that are in their 60's. thus the only unrealistic opinion here is probably yours.
i could easily ask you - where is your evidence to the contrary?
To be fair, that's asking someone to "prove a negative" which is pretty difficult. i.e. I don't personally believe in the existence of the "Loch Ness Monster" (how do I know it's name then? one might ask
) but I can't prove conclusively, to the satisfaction of believers, that it doesn't exist.Personally I think the ages quoted are unlikely because they don't follow a standard statistical pattern, i.e.:
i. few, if any, reputable/established places (a loaded term I know) with (historically/theoretically) the highest standards of care claim similar excessively long-lived Chimps. It seems strange that a few long-living Chimps don't pop up at these places;
ii. as far as I understand there's quite a few Chimps claimed in the late 60's and early 70's but less claimed in the late 50's and early 60's. This would imply care has got worse over the years.
Whilst I think the extremely old Chimps claimed are unlikely, I don't completely write off the possibility -I can see there's an argument that those held as pets possibly have fairly stress-free lives and the facts that this doesn't happen as (Chimps as pets) nowadays may explain the statistical anomolies above.
As i stated earlier with regard to Weigls book from 2005,he used data drawn directly from zoo records or from the records of Marvin Jones,who was a good friend and i can vouch for his accuracy[ he was the registrar at San Diego and even put them on ISIS].At the time[2004] Weigl found NO record of a Common Chimpanzee older than 56years and 5 months for a female born at Suncoast Primate Sanctuary in Florida which was still alive at 17.08.04. Assuming the animal is still alive it therefore would only just creep into its 60s.Anything supposedly older must be treated with suspicion particularly since Chimps of a certain age are likely to be wild-caught.
Zebraduiker
Well-Known Member
@Phoenix. No chimp has reached the age of 70. The chimp at the Lion Country Safari is wild caught, they have no birth date for it. Goodall said, she had a 66 years old chimp at a rescue center in afrcia, itc ame from a little zoo, But this animal was wild cuaght, too, it came adult to the zoo and they had no birth date for it also....
So why are you say, my opinion is unrealistic ?
So why are you say, my opinion is unrealistic ?