Aww lucky you, Ive recently got a chester news from July 1968 with a picture of Rajang at 4 days old . . soooo cute.
I just got the impression they didnt think Rajang would be with us that much longer. when asked the keeper I spoke to said no plans at the moment while Rajang is still alive.
I know the picture you mean- he is wrapped in a towel or baby blanket?
Rajang is what- 40 years old now? Some males live quite a bit longer- that's if he's still fit and well and he was the last time I saw him (some years back now).
Regarding new Orangutans- either it will happen or it won't happen, just have to wait and see.
Colchester Zoo Orang Utan Forest
- Thread starter CZJimmy
- Start date
What they could do is move in a young, immature male, about 7-9 years old. He wouldn`t be a threat for Rajang and it is very well possible that the 2 would come along well. Young males in this age may already be fertile and do sire babys even when living in a group with a big male.. this happened in Leipzig and Münster (both Germany). In Leipzig, old male Bimbo lived with much younger Walter and Walter is indeed the father of some babys born while both lived in the group. In Münster, the situation is a bit like in Colchester - the old male is infertile and to continue breeding, 2 young males (about 8-10 years) were brought in. Both came along very well with the old male and when 2 babys were born, it turned out that each sired one of them. One of the young males has since been moved to Paignton as new breeding male while the other one continues to live in Münster with the females, his baby and the old male.
Yes, they could. My guess is that if any more Orangs go to Colchester while Rajang is still there, it would be a young pair of the age you suggest. Even six year old males can be fertile... ask Paignton Zoo!!
taun
Well-Known Member
You beat me to it. He definitely hasn't matured yet, he was avoiding Chesters adult male all day on Sat making sure he had an escape route at all times.
He really does need to move on in the next year or so.
I was only passing on what I was told
With only the inside part of the enclosure anywhere near completed if they did bring in any more orangs it would mean them taking it in turns to be out of their quite small sleeping quarters.
Rajang is a very special orang and much loved and wont be around for ever cant see what all the rush is about to get a breeding pair at Colchester, those of us who love Rajang are more than happy to see him spend his last days without having his territory threatened and him upset by even more change.
He has spent 25 years in the same enclosure, both of my children have been brought up visiting Rajang and i myself have been going to Colchester for a very long time!
Change is good but no need to rush things, plenty of time for babies at Colchester unlike Rajang who needs to enjoy his old age after all zoos should look after all their animals whether they are part of a breeding programme or not
I am not to put it past you ... but dream the dream .... In both Orang EEP's the species coordinator is strongly opposed to any hybrids precluding any potential breeding pair from forming. I am not against the idea of keeping hold of Rajang at Colchester on welfare grounds, just your idea that no pure male Sumatran could be imported just because Rajang is there and while he will not tolerate another male there.
The very fact that Rajang pees on the female is not exactly great from a welfare point of view from her sakes .... So, I would still advocate separating Rajang from her and GIVE Djambe the opportunity to breed as comes naturally. After all, we are talking a (sub-)species (some taxonomists/
geneticists now regard both Sumatran and Bornean orangs separate species)
that in the wild does contain no more than 3,000 - 4,500 individuals, whereas the Bornean (sub-)species at least still numbers in the 10,000's. We have a duty to multiply them as much as possible and breeding orangs is not exactly numerous each year (with in Sumatrans probably no more than 2-4 births a year), so we need all the realistic breeding recommendations we can get.
So, I beg to differ massively with you on both counts ....
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karenZOO
Well-Known Member
Lol was gonna say iv just spent ages uploading them and i hope it worked! (first timer lol)
Not the best of quality this exhibit is gonna be a nightmare for photographers inside with a lot of light coming in overhead and awful reflections! Also a pack of brownies at Adopters day i didnt want in any posted photos!
Alot of money went on restoring Stanway Church which was unfortunately a big part of the planning permission and which has held up this enclosure for 2 years! I will post a picture of the restoration lol!
Also they have dug down for the enclosure and had to build a tunnel under the road!
I can only assume thats where alot of the money went!
Not the best of quality this exhibit is gonna be a nightmare for photographers inside with a lot of light coming in overhead and awful reflections! Also a pack of brownies at Adopters day i didnt want in any posted photos!
Alot of money went on restoring Stanway Church which was unfortunately a big part of the planning permission and which has held up this enclosure for 2 years! I will post a picture of the restoration lol!
Also they have dug down for the enclosure and had to build a tunnel under the road!
I can only assume thats where alot of the money went!
taun
Well-Known Member
Thanks that might explain, why it doen't look like £2million was spent on it.
But accomodation work is built into the cost. Shame really, that there is no naturally planting indoors. It works well in chesters new enclosure and provides a different sort of enrichement as they can pull the plants up.
Sumatran males usually do not attain their cheek pads and the long thick coat of full maturity until as late as 18 years old. Although full sized earlier, Puloh didn't get his pads till that age..(Borneans are usually not quite such slow developers). Padang probably won't develop pads at all while he is in contact with an older male(this can supress their development)
'Padang' would be ideal for Colchester. However at 11, the much older and established Rajang would almost certainly act agressively toward him and they would have to be kept separate. I don't know whether the design incorporates more than one main exhibit or not to allow for that.
taun
Well-Known Member
Check the Photos KarenZoo posted.
It certainely is designed for just four adult orangutans. So I doubt ir very much that it would be a good idea to hold an additional male orangutan.
I can't understand why they have stated the intention of getting another pair(of Sumatrans) for breeding, if the enclosure makes it impossible to keep two males seperate. I am totally confused here....
taun
Well-Known Member
Am just as confused, because by the looks of things if they wanted to keep another male, one would have to be locked indoors while the other outdoor.
It doesn't make sense that they want another pair, unless they requested a pair but once their original male was no longer around.
It doesn't make sense that they want another pair, unless they requested a pair but once their original male was no longer around.
They couldn't keep two males(fairly) under that 'one in/one out' regime longterm.
Maybe the intention is to house 4- meaning 1.3 after 'Rajang' has gone though it does say they aim to add another 'pair'. EEP lists showed a possible move of 1.1. for 2008/9. However, these listings are recommendations, not necessarily adhered to, plus they may change according to circumstances.
It seems to me Colchester may not be in a position to accept more Orangutans currently- if so its a pity considering this new house.
taun
Well-Known Member
I agree there plan does seem to have 1.3. Once 'Rjang' has gone.
Wouldn`t Chester`s Padang be a great candidate for Frankfurt Zoo? Their male orang utan is now 50 years old and while he seemed to do reasonably well at my last visit (climbing into the top of the new, 12 m high enclosure), it is just unrealistic to assume that he will be around much longer. And there are not that many orang utan males in the right age to take over as new breeding male.
Padang is a lovely young male- still quite small but has a good thick coat.
A good choice for somewhere as a breeder certainly as his father Puloh (from the Perth line) has only one other offspring (Padang's halfsister) so far in Europe so this line is not particularly highly represented yet.
I don't know if Chester feel any need to move 'Padang' away yet- I presume it depends on EEP recommendations again. I had hoped he might go to Colchester but the situation there seems very confusing now.
Isn't Puluh the father of Chester's other 3 youngsters?
Yes, but they are still young and won't leave Chester for some years to come...
What I'm saying is Puloh's line hasn't spread beyond Chester yet, except for the daughter(name?) that has already left. Though Puloh has many relations at Perth, (also I think one in Singapore now) he's the only one from that group to come to Europe. So Padang could be valuable too. And he's ready to leave if another zoo could take him into a group.