Melbourne Zoo Orang-utan Sanctuary opens...

problems with rothschilds giraffes

whilst our zoos are playing an important role in the international breeding programs for many primate and carnivore species, which can be imported and exported freely, as well as rhinos i think that the current quarantine leglislation means zoos will increasingly have to focus on the artiodactyl tag as a closed, regional program.
its probably better if we focus just on hybrid giraffes and incorporate current genetic material from the rothschilds into that program. in the long-term, if we cant import anymore rothschilds than the population will inevitably get more inbred.
secondly, if we are part of an international program for this species then some australian bred stock would eventually go back overseas. but with no chance of importing animals that just represents a loss of an animal with no chance of replacement.
giraffes, in fact all of the artiodactyl tag will probably have to be managed like birds. and if you compared giraffes to macaws, would you engage in an international program that would see your precious little breeding stock heading os.
the only reason we should become more involved, in fact the only way we could become more involved with conservation for this tag if current import bans were lifted. then some programs could be viable.
 
To Rothschild or not to Rothschild

Glyn,

Your comments are fine where it not for the fact that hybridising an endangered giraffe subspecies is highly undesirable. I personally would rather advocate a more vigorous approach by ARAZPA zoos in the regional collection plan and making arrangements with the government to overcome the Artiodactyl import ban. This ban is a slow killer on zoos in the region and for that reason alone individual ARAZPA zoos should battle long and hard with the federal government over the import issue.
 
well dubbo's male is pure rothchilds, yet he is the sire to all the calves, he is the only full blood rothchilds.
 
in the 'going going gone' report one of the most important statements was that zoos need to face economic reality. zoos are facing a ban on artiodactyl species. so how, with no chance of importing more rothschilds giraffes, could a program of pure=bred animals be considered sustainable.
zoos in north america and europe still have access to each others stock. but we dont, as everyone is aware. for many years auastralia's giraffe herd was highly inbred and still is to an extent. integrating rothschild's genes will secure a healthy hybrid population for many years to come. on the other hand, mainatianing two seperate programs will only see the rothschild's program become more and more inbred and ultimately unsustainable.
zoos tha currently have pure rothschilds should focus on breeding these animals for the next two to three generations and exporting offspring back to overseas for integration to foreign programs. some stock should also be retained and bred into our hybrid herd.
whilst i strongly advocate keeping subspecies pure and also believe in zoo conservation programs for the larger vertabrate species particualrly i also feel that in the future australian zoos will need to put regional obigations first when it comes to artiodactyl programs and perhaps withdraw completely from international programs altogether, simply because...
a-our holding capacity is so small our region is considered genetically short term
b-our quarantine laws ban importation of hoofed stock.
its a sad siutation, given the expertise, climate and space available at our open-range zoos but the risk to our agriculatural industry could be seen as to great to see any bans overturned (i know, there are millions of examples of breaches, aquarium fish, imported fruit etc)
 
in the 'going going gone' report one of the most important statements was that zoos need to face leglislative reality. zoos are facing a ban on artiodactyl species. so how, with no chance of importing more rothschilds giraffes, could a program of pure=bred animals be considered sustainable.
zoos in north america and europe still have access to each others stock. but we dont, as everyone is aware. for many years auastralia's giraffe herd was highly inbred and still is to an extent. integrating rothschild's genes will secure a healthy hybrid population for many years to come. on the other hand, mainatianing two seperate programs will only see the rothschild's program become more and more inbred and ultimately unsustainable.
zoos tha currently have pure rothschilds should focus on breeding these animals for the next two to three generations and exporting offspring back to overseas for integration to foreign programs. some stock should also be retained and bred into our hybrid herd.
whilst i strongly advocate keeping subspecies pure and also believe in zoo conservation programs for the larger vertabrate species particualrly i also feel that in the future australian zoos will need to put regional obigations first when it comes to artiodactyl programs and perhaps withdraw completely from international programs altogether, simply because...
a-our holding capacity is so small our region is considered genetically short term
b-our quarantine laws ban importation of hoofed stock.
its a sad siutation, given the expertise, climate and space available at our open-range zoos but the risk to our agriculatural industry could be seen as to great to see any bans overturned (i know, there are millions of examples of breaches, aquarium fish, imported fruit etc)
Yesterday 08:43 PM
 
jeez all this from an orangutan sanctuary. but whilst were on the subject of giraffes i dont think they belong at taronga either. in fact, whilst i dont think theyre suffering, i do reckon they should all go to western plains and the african waterhole could be remodelled into a gigantic gorilla habitat. i would base my designs on bronx zoo's congo forest and melbournes rainforest. it would feature gorillas, the chimpanzee enclosure, mandrills, colobus, a walk-thru lemure enclosure, birds, reptiles and maybe a black rhino or two...
 
Hey Glyn,

Your posting on the 'going going gone' report is very well thought out, and represents reality in the region. We absolutely don't have sufficient animals in our collections to sustain a small herd of rothschilds separately from the hybrids. In the short-term maybe, but unless the import bans are lifted, or AI becomes feasible with this species, we will need to maintain a hybrid population, purely for display.

I'd have to disagree with your suggestion of exporting giraffe overseas though - zoos in the US and Europe are not likely to want to bear the costs of importing giraffe from Australia, when they can easily obtain stock from within their respective regions, or from each other. And since the rothschilds here originates from the SSP (US) population to start with, there's no great benefit in sending them back to the US. Add to this the well-known beaurocratic hurdles that DEH place in the way of imports from Australia, and it makes it an even less appealing prospect.

In reality, we need to manage giraffe in this region (and a number of other species), purely for sustaining a display population. This is one of the big arguments for us focussing on South East Asian species, where there is far more chance of us making a meaningful contribution to the conservation of these species.

Boy, has this gone off-topic - sorry!! Although, if we consider the original posting - ourang-utans - it's kind of come full circle!
 
thanks zoo pro

my suggestion to send australian bred giraffes back overseas too was only if they originated from a line that needed more representation overseas. im not as obsessed with the lineage of giraffe populations as some people ;) so i wasnt sure.
giraffes, african lions-the true value of maintaining both populations in australia is not long-term reintroduction but instead education, fundraising and use as analogues to assist in-situ recovery.
i know the u.s zoo industry found themselves in a similar situation as we are with giraffes, only with asian elephants instead. the question of sub-species soup was raised, in fact a book by vicki croke called the modern ark explored the topic really well.
ill just reinterate my point that sub-species should be maintained but when it comes to artiodactyl's in australia i think we will be viewing most species as display species, as you said!!!
 
im not obsessed! i hope your reffering to jason! ;) and by all means i'm all for hybridising our giraffes should that be our only option. i just think its a bloody shame that we started off this purebred breeding program that was going so well and now its been hit on the head by this big fat import ban that is going to effect not only giraffes but a whole heap of other species we have put so much effort into (like bongos for example... they are in really big trouble).

the thought of speculating on what our zoos of the future will be like with very, very few artiodactyl species just gets me down, espacially the effect this will have on our open-range zoos. some of them are really world class and western plains certainly gets thrown in the same class as places like whipsnade and the san diego wild animal park.

is the plan to try and have it overturned? even if it is just for a select few species? i sure hope so....
 
the future of our open-range zoos

i havent been to san diego wild animal park but i have been to whipsnade. it was brilliant but i honestly believe western plains zoo will always be in the top 3 zoos around the world, as its regulalry touted, even if the import ban doesnt get overturned.
the parks layout and the number of potential species held would make it neccesary to redesign some parts of the zoo but if some more primate species were incorporated then that would helpt to fill the gap.
in the future african elephants will need to be imported or western plains will lose a major drawcard. this could prove a contentious issue but with the zoos three females in their late 30's it probably has a good decade or so to work out a proposal.
in the future, if dubbo cannot import any more hoofed stock then the hippo lakes area would be a great place for an african primate forest. perhaps another group of chimps, or some colobus. a walk through lemur enclosure would be a drawcard.
dubbo would also be a great place to develop exhibits of servals and hamydryas baboons, and maybe hyena.
 
Photos uploaded.

for those interested i just spent an arduous however-long, uploading a photo-tour of the new orang-facility in the gallery section. the rest of the zoo looked empty. keepers and visitors alike were all lazing around the asia trail admiring the elephants and orangutans!!!
 
i dont know if i like it...trust melbourne to come up with something completely out of the box.
maybe a bit like federation square??? or the giant chip on the highway on the way in from the airport. ill probably like it when i see it. ;)
its obviously a giant improvement on the old orang enclosure.
 
not living together as yet. it will be a gradual thing, probably particuarly important since the siamangs (and can i just say man, they are damn big gibbons!) have a small baby. interestingly adelaide zoo recently reported that they are only the second zoo in the world to exhibit siamangs and orangs together, after some other zoo i have forgotten at this time. san diego do it without problems and plenty of others have gibbon orang mix-ups, such as jersey.

i think the melbourne exhibit is good and i like the way they are always prepared to throw out something different - in this instance, creating three very different enclosures as part of the exhibit. but i think the main, outdoor enclosure could have been just a tad more innnovative and immersive. i prefer water moats over tall walls to keep in the apes for one, and i would have liked some experimentation with sythetic vines and artificial or dead trees rather than all poles and pillars. at least melbournes custom made poles are painted so as to blend in. a heap more ground covers wouldn't go astray either. they certainly could have done more to make the exhibit look like a rainforest. but as i said once those trees grow, and i presume they are inteneded to grow a conopy of sorts over the climbing frames, the shade will offer opportunity to develop a greener habitat.
 
i was more poking fun-trying to encourage some sydney-melbourne rivalry ;)
if its anything like melbourne's usual standard it will look fantastic.
in the future at taronga i would like to see the gorilla rainforest converted to an orang exhibit to link the two elephant rainforests. and i think a two-storey building like melbournes could be built behind the gorilla exhibit, on the other side of the service road and linked by an o-line.
im starting to think taronga should consider scrapping geographic zones for the south american and african parts of the master plan and instead present the wildlife in a 'jungle trails' exhibit which i would cover the whole hillside from serpenteria across to the waterhole (and including) and then all the way down to the food market.
i would link the animals in with global themes, and have...
butterflies
squirrel monkeys
macaws, tamarins
spider monkeys (in the old orang enclosure)
brazillian tapir and possibly maned wolves
the chimps would stay where they are
the giraffe and rhino exhibit would become a new gorilla habitat
new colobus, mandrill and lemur exhibits.
new rhino enclosures
new lion enclosure
and finally a boardwalk would rise through the canopy past clouded leopards to the orang pavillion where a huge glass window would look out over the exhibit from the back.
JUNGLE TRAILS
(and the zoo adelaide refered to is san diego, thoguh i believe there reference to santiago was a typo)
cincinatti mixes orangs and white-cheeks. london mixed bears with lars. lets hope our zoos get even more creative with their ixed species combinations.
 
yeah right.

i agree with you gorilla to orang convversion idea. linking the bull elephant and gibbon islands to the rest of asia. its a shithouse gorilla exhibit would could be a not-so-bad orang one if they added, as you said a treetop viewing platform at the back and maybe even some additional mesh exhibits like melbournes has. spider monkeys in the old orang habitat is the go too i think and i think is the long-term plan at the zoo.

i noticed that, whilst the orangs have no been placed between the giraffes and the eles, there is a back service road that runs past the flight aviary to the giraffes and there are already gates placed in the bull paddock to allow the elephants to bypass the orangs, since they can no longer walk that way (it would require them going up into the boardwalk). thus, it would require very little to extend trail of the elephants (and the asia trail) if need be, by transforming the african savannah into another elephant exhibit. with the option to move even the bull to a hypothetical new paddock via a protected raceway.
 
hay pat i carnt find ya tour, can u help me?

i reakon melb, should do the african section next, as in zebs, giraffes, ostrich, and lions and wildogs, as well as every other savannah species, it would be fantastic, keep the current lion/wilddog exhibit, and move the giraffe area around to it, take some lawns up, and then bulldoze the giraffe exhibit, minus the historic ********, and make, yes yet another paddock, maybe a people friendly really upclose feeding dock, as well as new tapir (if zoo keeps them on) , fishing cat, golden cat bintorong monkey exhibits.

that would be the bext asian exhibit vere then hay guys, what do yas think?
 
i just re-read my previous post and it makes no sense whatsoever - my apologies. in the first paragraph i was talking about taronga zoo in the second, melbourne with no indication that is what i was doing at all!

re: the orang gallery, i put it in the gallery section and it pops up under recent posts. i wasn't sure exactly what i was doing so the tour goes backwards! maybe go to the last photo and then keep hitting "previous" to see the tour in the correct order...
 
Glyn.- I don't think London have ever had bears with Lars(gibbons)

They do have sloth Bears with Grey Langurs tho' and that works well
 
more orangs on the horizon?

now that the melbourne zoo has a new, larger, orangutan exhibit i wonder if there are any plans to aquire any more purebred sumatran orangutans? currently the zoo has just two adults and their offspring (supprisingly dad santan is often on exhibit with his young son and mate - i didn't know male orangs were particuarly tolerant or paternal in captivity?) and two hybrid females.
you would assume that with the additional space and the new setup that the zoo could afford to house at least a couple more females to breed from. certainly, unless they do we can expet the breeding program to go on hold whilst the young orang grows up... oranguatrans have one of the longest child/mother dependancies of any primate!!
 
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