Paignton Zoo Orangutan Island/Lemur Wood
- Thread starter Pertinax
- Start date
Nosey Parker
Member
Pertinax
Having read some of your work on other threads you clearly know a lot about primates. Do you have a zoo back ground. Obviously you are far more knowledgeable than myself but I have to say I strongly disagree with you concerning the gorilla island viewing and you are painting a very grim picture of it for other readers who may not be regular visitors. Especially as you haven't been to the zoo yourself since 2005!
The whole point of Paignton zoo is it's natural settings for the animals. I expect they get many complaints from today's impatient society who want everything handed to them on a plate and more besides. Personally I like the challenge of "animal spotting" and I imagine the animals are happier being able to retreat from the jeering crowds when they want to. So what if you have to wait or go back a few times to catch a glimpse - they are not circus performers! Some people would prefer it if zoos went back to concrete cages perhaps.
In reference to the gorillas, now that it is a younger group they are much more active and can often be seen on the edge of the island, sometimes even paddling in the water! In fact most of the time they seem to prefer to be indoors.
Sorry I didn't mean this to be quite so match of a rant!!!! I visit a lot of zoos and think it would be dreadfully dull if they copied each others enclosures. Also sorry about the bad grammar the question mark key on this computer is broken!
Having read some of your work on other threads you clearly know a lot about primates. Do you have a zoo back ground. Obviously you are far more knowledgeable than myself but I have to say I strongly disagree with you concerning the gorilla island viewing and you are painting a very grim picture of it for other readers who may not be regular visitors. Especially as you haven't been to the zoo yourself since 2005!
The whole point of Paignton zoo is it's natural settings for the animals. I expect they get many complaints from today's impatient society who want everything handed to them on a plate and more besides. Personally I like the challenge of "animal spotting" and I imagine the animals are happier being able to retreat from the jeering crowds when they want to. So what if you have to wait or go back a few times to catch a glimpse - they are not circus performers! Some people would prefer it if zoos went back to concrete cages perhaps.
In reference to the gorillas, now that it is a younger group they are much more active and can often be seen on the edge of the island, sometimes even paddling in the water! In fact most of the time they seem to prefer to be indoors.
Sorry I didn't mean this to be quite so match of a rant!!!! I visit a lot of zoos and think it would be dreadfully dull if they copied each others enclosures. Also sorry about the bad grammar the question mark key on this computer is broken!
At her age Chinta is full of life and promise and surely will do her "bit" in raising the next generation of orangs. I expect that the breeding programme will be up and running with proven Demo.
Of all the Gorilla enclosures I've seen in Uk and abroad, I would rate Paignton's (at least up to 2005) the hardest anywhere to see the Gorillas in their outdoor situation. My complaint is you couldn't SEE the animals even when they are moving about, NOT that they don't show hemselves. There's a big difference between the two. This is because the increasingly dense vegetation on the public's side of the water obscured views of the island & its occupants at all but a couple of places. The first time I ever saw the exhibit I was struck at how few viewing points situated around it there were. Then even they became overgrown though Gigit tells me some of the veg has been removed to give a better views now.
The more vegetation on the island itself the better and the gorillas can always retreat away from the public viewing areas if they want. But as you've noticed, they'd still rather prefer to stay indoors a lot where people can stare directly at them through glass. I'm not sure that Apes are really bothered at all by crowds of people anyway- so long as they can get away if they wish to. The Gorilla groups at Howletts are all happy to go about their business without trying to hide away from the almost permanent flow of visitors standing only a couple of feet outside their enclosures. Sometimes they go into the less visible areas too but nobody leaves Howletts complaining they can't see the Gorillas, and this is the most successful breeding programme in the World.
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Nosey Parker
Member
I always manange to SEE the animals. My point is that Paignton is a natural zoo not trimmed and manicured like some others. The wild vegetation softens the exhibit boundaries and encompasses the public into a sense of being in the animals' environment.
Your judgements are outdated and present a false and not very complimentary view of the zoo to other readers. Come and SEE for yourself and if you're still not satisfied perhaps you could redesign the enclosures and submit them to the zoo's management.
Come and SEE for yourself and if you're still not satisfied perhaps you could redesign the enclosures and submit them to the zoo's management.
I was referring to what I think was a shortcoming in the viewing facilities at one exhibit, not to the enclosure or the zoo itself. It may be improved since my last visit which would be good news(especially for photographers). As for redesigning things, all they needed is a pair of branch cutters.
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i never realised london had orangs upto then!
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Yes - they came to Paignton in 1992 when London decided to stop holding them, in favour of chimps. I've just been reliving it by watching a DVD of 'The Ark', a BBC series about how London nearly closed and the steps they took to keep it open. They decided that the public thought chimps were more interesting and that they were easier to keep. A bonus for Paignton (and ultimately, me!)
Gigit
Well-Known Member
I've uploaded 3 photos of tree-climbing orangutans so that you, especially Pertinax, can see that they do climb now and again! Mali is on the larger island and Chinta on the smaller - the first time I've seen anyone on it since male, Nakal, left. (keywords Paignton orangutan 2008)
Orangutans in trees at Paignton? Unheard of... Actually they look pretty good against the foliage background. Hopefully the new pair will use them on a more regular basis and maybe encourage Chinta & Gambira too. There are more ropes and platforms than previously, which may help encourage access too.
Fact for the week; Did you know that 'Mali' is a full sister of 'Batu' at Twycross...?
Fact for the week; Did you know that 'Mali' is a full sister of 'Batu' at Twycross...?
Gigit
Well-Known Member
One of the more fragile looking trees is already showing wear and tear from their climbing with some broken branches. I saw Mali fall from it as a branch snapped but fortunately she wasn't very high up. She and Demo are featherweights compared to the less active Chinta and Gambira who may have to be more cautious when climbing. They are a delight to watch.
Yes, I knew about Mali and Batu but haven't noticed any family resemblances!
Yes, I knew about Mali and Batu but haven't noticed any family resemblances!
I'd be interested to know whether Demo and Mali came from an enclosure where they had lots of climbing opportunity, or if it is primarily their younger age and 'outlook' that accounts for their climbing ability and proper use of the trees at Paignton. I feel sure the ex London Orangs were so inactive because of their previous background and Gambira just took their lead.
Its great to see the trees being climbed at last, wear and tear = regular usage!