Living Coasts (Closed) Otters coming in 2012

polarbear

polarbear

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Living Coasts have announced today that they will be receiving a breeding pair of European / Eurasian (lutra lutra) Otters in 2012, currently held at Highland Wildlife.

Plans have been developed over the past year and the Sea Duck pool will be redeveloped in early 2012, hopefully completed for the 2012 main season. The enclosure will have both sea and fresh water pools and will be called 'Otter Rapids'.

The sea ducks will move to Penguin Beach and the oystercatchers to Waders.
 
Where are they coming from?? I have only ever seen the European Otters once at Edinburgh Zoo... they are very hard to see...lol
 
I imagine they will have to net over the new Otter enclosure to prevent free flying waders , terns etc. flying in and being killed .
 
The ones being held at HWP are from Edinburgh I believe. On a recent trip it was mentioned that they were minding some from Edinburgh as the collection they are going to is not yet ready for them.
 
That sounds great, I don't know of any other exhibits which show European otters in a marine context. Are there any?
 
I hope its a worthwhile exhibit for them- Eurasian Otters are often very retiring in Zoos and don't show as well as species like Asian Short-Clawed, Canadian etc.
 
I'm interested to know how they will convert the Sea Duck enclosure to hold fresh water as well as sea water? I've always thought it was wasted as a Sea Duck pool, especially when their plumage is dull for half a year, but recently it has become a sub-habitat of its own with Oyster Catchers and waders coming over from the estuary. Does anyone know if the pair from Scotland are shy or active during the day? Interesting thought about the possible netting to protect the birds - but there is none over the Fur Seals? I think it would 'feel' wrong and go against the unique immersion exhibit they've created. I still think the seals should eventually be replaced by two breeding pairs of Sea Otters. I know the US Marine Fisheries Dept have said no, but it makes so much sense! I also think they should display Sand Lizards (Ventnor Wall perhaps?), Lemmings, Little Auks and the Grey Gulls & Lapwings (kept at Paignton). Interesting times eh?
 
TriGB said:
I still think the seals should eventually be replaced by two breeding pairs of Sea Otters. I know the US Marine Fisheries Dept have said no, but it makes so much sense! I also think they should display Sand Lizards (Ventnor Wall perhaps?), Lemmings, Little Auks and the Grey Gulls & Lapwings (kept at Paignton). Interesting times eh?
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I don't think they have much chance of getting Sea Otters if a zoo like Rotterdam,cannot get any to replace the ones they sent back to Lisbon!
As for the other all possible I feel,except I think the Grey Gulls that were actually kept in Living Coasts,but were removed before the end of the first year of the place being open!
 
The americans DONT want to send any sea otters anywhere, so they can be the only ones that have them, selfish really !!! I KNOW but there you go. The fur seals don't have a net as the thought it would break up the zoo, however they have never had any trouble with birds getting caught and they often fly in. There was one occasion when the keepers went in one morning and one of the bank cormorant was found surrounded by the seals, he was fine and was infact pecking them. So from now on the seals are put away every night to make sure that this doesn't happen agian. They have tried chemical warfare with frozen quail to see if a mild chemical would make the seals leave the birds alone however they just destroyed the quail and then left it :D. However at the moment there is no danger of the birds being eaten.
coffee pheasant
 
Ian Robinson - you left a reply about the Marine Otter of SW S America - I have just researched it and it does seem a perfect fit for Living Coasts, especially since there are other S American species there already. Maybe they will gain experience with the Eurasian otters and then look into it? Columbus Zoo (I think) may run the studbook or oversee an in-situ breeding programme......good suggestion!
 
They most definitely have had problem encounters between birds and seals previously and why would they feel the need to use 'chemical warfare' (or aversion training) if there was no problem there? I agree with most of the posts on here though that they are likely to keep the new otter enclosure un-netted in order to preserve the feeling of space outside and have heard some of the more recent chicks of the more vulnerable species have been pinioned (the inca terns are usually too fast and strong fliers to be at much risk) to help avoid any future problems. Personally I don't really agree with pinioning as flying is such a big part of what birds are (excluding the non-flying species obviously) but its a complex topic which im sure has its own thread somewhere on these forums.

I am a bit worried for the ducks being moved down to penguin beach too. I am a bit biased as I have always loved them with their gorgeous colours and different courtship calls but I fully appreciate they are not such a big hit with the general visitors. I also know they have had ducks with the penguins before, however penguins are large, curious and clumsy so they will probably chase them a fair bit and they will definitely make it very difficult for the ducks to breed naturally. Given some of these ducks are facing difficult times in the wild and are not that common in captivity I would rather see them go to other collections which have facilities that allow them to breed successfully, unless living coasts can come up with an area that only the ducks can access in the beach area to allow them space to breed free from penguin disruptions.

That said I really do hope the new otter enclosure works out for them. As some others on here I worry that eurasian otters are usually quite shy and may not be the show stoppers they hope for, but with some well thought out enclosure modification and a bit of luck it will hopefully work out well, and fingers crossed creates another feeding time to look out for.
 
The ducks have infact not bred for a year now as their numbers have been reduced and they don't feel comfortable enough! I do agree with you that they are gorgeous birds however only in winter when no visitors are there. Thus they are being replaced! :( I have been told if a zoo wants them they can have them !! If not they will be moved to the penguins.
As you said they did have some common eider on penguin beach they lived there happily, also some barrows goldeneye ducks lived with the macaroni penguins before they joined the african penguins.
Penguin beach is infact rather large and there is a section under bushes where the penguins often don't go a perfect place for nests!!!
I would say that chemical warfare is a harsh way of saying it !!! These tests where done years ago!!!
Living coasts is a strong non believer in pinioning !!! Hence the net, and no chicks bred there are pinioned !!!! The ducks and oystercatchers came from private collections and where already pinioned. NOT living coasts choice. (inca terns would never be pinoned it would be inhuman for an aieral bird).
I am sure that the otters will bring a new dimension to Living coasts
kind regards coffeepheasant.
 
coffeepheasant said:
Living coasts is a strong non believer in pinioning !!! Hence the net, and no chicks bred there are pinioned !!!!
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That isn't entirely true. I agree they wouldn't pinion the inca terns (they wouldn't have anywhere to keep them if they did!) and I know the ducks and oystercatchers came in already pinioned as it is sadly common practice to pinion water birds under the misconception that flight isn't important to them. I was last at Living Coasts in September when this years young avocets were still easily distinguished from the adults by the brown colouration on the wings and those birds were definitely pinioned. A pinioned bird is pretty easy to spot if you know what you are looking for-one wing will look shorter than the other even at rest, and when the wings are flapped it is obvious. Secondly, Living Coasts is owned by the Whitley Wildlife Conservation Trust, as are Paignton and Newquay Zoos, so it is the trust that makes the overall decisions and they are clearly not anti-pinioning as the waterfowl on the lake at Paignton are commonly pinioned.

As for the ducks on penguin beach, they also had spectacled eiders on there for a while and there eggs and nests were disrupted by the penguins investigating them to the point the keepers had to intervene and take the remaining eggs and the ducks have not managed to breed successfully since then as far as I know, so it is a problem, but hopefully if they are willing for them to go as you say then they will be on the surplus list and they may find a more suitable home. I agree the flock size is probably too small for the ducks to make a serious attempt at breeding currently anyway.

Anyway, all this really means is that the otters present challenges that need solving to fit them into the collection, as with all new species, and hopefully Living Coasts has the experience now to do so successfully.
 
I am sure that they haven't pinnoned any of the wading birds because the avocets are often found on penguin beach! The whole point of the huge net is to allow the birds to fly(thus they don't need to be pinnoned) Paignton zoo which doesn't have the correct facilities for flying birds on the same scale does pinnon specific species.
It is owned by the Whitley wildlife fund however living coasts differs from the other zoos in how they look after their birds( because of the different environment that they have).
I do believe that this year some of the wading birds were found with abesses on them, most of them were cured however i think one of the birds had to have it's wing taken off!
I think we can however both agree that there is little hope of the sea ducks breeding, and it would be lovely if living coasts could keep the birds but it would probably be best if they went to another collection(blackbrook).
kind regards coffeepheasant
 
You should only pinion a bird within the first few days of its life. It is only last summer they have started to pinion the avocets, so any that were not hatched before last year would not have been pinioned and can still fly freely (hence getting to the beach). I have double-checked my facts on this one before this posting-it definitely has happened and probably will now continue as standard practice, possibly for the best if the otters do end up without a net and are located right next to the waders estuary, but it is just something I personally am not very comfortable with as I agree the point of the net should be to allow free-flight-its one of the things that makes Living Coasts wonderful!
 
Otters

Has anyone seen how the converted Sea Duck enclosure is coming along? Have the otters arrived yet? Do we know if the Oystercatchers will go to the Waders Estuary?
 
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