Twycross Zoo Our first visit in several years and our last

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daystar12uk

Member
Twycross Zoo today and what a disappointment. Molly Badham must be turning in her grave. In all honesty Himalaya is very good and the new elephant enclosure is nice but as for the rest of it, no. Chimpanzee enclosures an absolute disgrace, dirty, derelict and lacking any redeeming features. The chimps seemed listless and depressed. Leopard & hyena enclosures leave a lot to be desired, orang enclosure same as ever. It is only thanks to the hard work of one family that at least the climbing frames have been renewed. Neglected about sums up the entire zoo. It was a sad visit, to see old friends living in such bad conditions made me want to weep. The one highlight was unbelievably one of the orangs and a couple of our favourite chimps recognised us, I was amazed as it's been several years since we last visited.

Once upon a time we were animal adopters and visited on a weekly basis but found it increasingly difficult to watch the decline of a place we loved so much. The powers that be should hang their heads in shame.
 
While many will share your feelings of disappointment at the way Twycross looks - it is a zoo that gets a lot of criticism on here - is it any worse than it was in the past? The collection, certainly, has declined from the 1970s and 1980s, but the animal housing is, in places, as poor as ever it was. The hideous giraffe paddock, the ugly brown brick ape things, the 'green mile' cages for the chimps, the rectangular pens for gibbons and monkeys, the inadequate cages for leopards and hyenas - these are not new developments. One or two of the newer things, though misguided in their emphasis, perhaps, do represent a step forward. I'd agree that Twycross is a pretty awful zoo, in many ways, but is it really any worse than it was in the days when chimps' tea parties were a highlight of any visit?
 
I agree with you Sooty, I've been a regular visitor (once or twice a year) since I was 4 which would've been 1989 and it doesn't seem to have detoriated in appearance but it certainly hasn't improved too much. Other than the elephant paddock, Himalaya and moving the lions out of the collection improvements are very thin on the the ground. A couple of extra climbing frames are not what's needed, a complete overhaul is! I know that it takes money to do a lot of the work but after spending a fortune on a new entrance and restaraunt then surely they should now be looking to sort out the existing collections exhibits.
Twycross bills itself as the "World Primate Centre". In theory I agree because the collection is fantastic, unfortunately the enclosures are not! I still enjoy visiting but I have to say that the place could be improved greatly and I think visitor numbers would increase if they publicised any changes they made. I know a few people who are disillusioned with the place but would visit far more regularly if they knew improvements were being made.
I still quite like the place though, childhood memories are hard to shake!
 
Twycross Zoo

It is about 5 years since our last visit and I'm sad to say that yes it is far worse than it used to be. It appears to be stuck in a time warp, nothing has been done to improve the conditions for any of the animals living in those vile enclosures. They were far from ideal when we first started visiting and the decline is blatantly obvious. If they had the funds to build Himalaya, then they would have served the animals in their care far better by improving their habitats. Why bring in new species when you are incapable of providing adequate facilities for those already in your care.

I firmly believe that zoos are important in helping educate people on the plight of our disappearing wildlife. That said there is a responsability to house the animals in the best conditions possible and Twycross are not meeting the needs of the animals in their care.

I don't actually care how pretty or well landscaped a zoo is. Yes it's nice to have a good cafeteria and gift shop, however my prime concern is the wellfare of the animals. If I have to forego a few luxuries on my visit so that the animals are better cared for, then so be it.
 
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daystar12uk said:
It is about 5 years since our last visit and I'm sad to say that yes it is far worse than it used to be. It appears to be stuck in a time warp, nothing has been done to improve the conditions for any of the animals living in those vile enclosures. They were far from ideal when we first started visiting and the decline is blatantly obvious. If they had the funds to build Himalaya, then they would have served the animals in their care far better by improving their habitats. Why bring in new species when you are incapable of providing adequate facilities for those already in your care.

I firmly believe that zoos are important in helping educate people on the plight of our disappearing wildlife. That said there is a responsability to house the animals in the best conditions possible and Twycross are not meeting the needs of the animals in their care.

I don't actually care how pretty or well landscaped a zoo is. Yes it's nice to have a good cafeteria and gift shop, however my prime concern is the wellfare of the animals. If I have to forego a few luxuries on my visit so that the animals are better cared for, then so be it.
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I agree with your statement 100%, by all means have nice cafes and gift shops, but build these after the chimps have had a new house built, I am repeating myself again, but these animals certainly deserve far better accommodation than what they have had present, I for one would not have minded having to"rough it" in the old cafe if the chimps had a new house built with some of the money that was used to build Himalaya, as much as I like going to Twycross the sight of these chimps living in this sub standard accommodation spoils my day, the same as it was at Edinburgh, seeing Mercedes the polar bear having to live in that museum piece of a bear enclosure, at least Mercedes finally got to live out her remaining time at the Highland Wildlife Park, are the Twycross chimps ever going to have a new facility built or are they destined to remain in the present accommodation until they pass away?, I sincerely hope not.
 
It might be wise for the board members at Twycross to have a look at the Defra website.
Standards of Modern Zoo Practice.

4.3 Accommodation should take account of the natural habitat of the species and seek to meet the physiological and psychological needs of the animal.

4.4 Enclosures should be equipped in accordance with the needs of the animals with bedding material, branchwork, burrows, nesting boxes, pools, sub-strates and vegetation and other enrichment materials designed to aid and encourage normal behaviour patterns and minimise any abnormal behaviour. Facilities must take into account growth in animals and must be capable of satisfactorily providing for their needs at all stages of their growth and development.

4.5 Animals of social species should normally be maintained in compatible social groups. They should only be kept isolated for the benefit of the conservation and welfare needs of the group, and where this is not detrimental to the individual specimen

Or perhaps they have and are using a very loose translation of the rules.
 
I was told by a pleasant young lady, serving in one of the quieter catering outlets on a visit at the end of 2010, that Himalaya hadn't been marketed to the local community as being a facility that could be visited WITHOUT the need to pay for entry to the zoo.

I don't know if that's true; obviously I very much hope not. However, the bizarre experiences of a huge new visitor area where one STILL has to queue outside for admission that has tacked on a peculiar new aviary off-exhibit to the public, and the longhouse aviary distinguished by the near total absence of any Indonesian birds, does make me wonder about the zoos' management and their priorities.

Meanwhile, as many other posters have pointed out, the great apes, very many monkeys, leopards, sealions and giraffes continue to live in accommodation that might be politely described as "dated".

Twycross is now (along with Whipsnade) my nearest major collection, so I try to see the positive in it. But it's hard not to feel concerned.
 
Oh I'm so torn here, you see I visited Twycross just over a week ago and have not yet done a visit report (under my Exercise Wandering Cheetah Thread) as I was trying to sort out my wording.
For me it's great seeing Bonobo & Gorilla as my 'home' zoo of Chester doesn't have them, I'm also aware that Chester is not a good yardstick for me to measure Twycross with respect to cages against due to the disparity in size, funding, support etc etc.
So I suppose I bottled out - I love the Himalaya exhibit for the views I get of the Snow Leopards and I also thought that the Elephant enclosure and the Borneo Longhouse exhibit are very good. BUT and this is a big but - although I liked getting to meet the really good primate collection I was upset by the cages in particular - they are not what I'd like to see for any of them but the Chimps and the Orangs look like a teenager has had a party in there with the amount of boxes, paper and plastic bottles they get access to - now I know they are enrichment of sorts but after they have used and abused them it just looks like rubbish and it's untidy, I don't like that, Also to be honest the bonds that the great apes appear to form with regular visitors are not only amazing but very touching, I feel that THAT is where most of their enrichment comes from in truth and without that I feel that they would suffer. On the other hand someone a lot more knowledgable in animal husbandry that me once said that 'a good measure of how happy and/or relaxed an animal is in it's environment is whether or not it breeds' the collection at Twycross currently has young Bonobo, Gorilla and Orangs that I saw so they must be doing something right?

I would LOVE to see them all in much better housing with lovely clear glass (or none at all where appropriate) but from where Twycross are now that will take a significant injection of funds, providing the Himalaya complex is inspired from that view point if you think about it - the gift shop, restaurant and gallery complex are all accessible without entry to the zoo - they must get some passing trade, if only from people camping out by the window to watch the snow leopard cubs and it's rare that any visitor spends no money at all. So overall they have spent big in the main 'first footfall' public area and hopefully the rewards from that will be put to improving the rest of the zoo, a speculate to accumulate kind of idea.

So I suppose this is sort of my review too, yes Twycross has much room for improvement and I believe that it is on the cards, otherwise how could they continue to operate as a world primate centre without seeking continued improvement and update?

I will return and not just to watch the 'snowie' cubs grow up but also to see if the primate centre reaches it's full potential enclosure wise to match it's excellent collection animal wise.
 
Maguari said:
It's a reference to death row taken from a Steven King novel (and later film).
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Thank you. I haven't seen that film (or read the book) so didn't want to mistakenly make the connection.
karoocheetah said:
For me it's great seeing Bonobo & Gorilla as my 'home' zoo of Chester doesn't have them...
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Many ZooChat members will remember the gorilla accommodation at Chester, including within the Tropical Realm and old orang house. Having seen the shoe boxes at Twycross, I think it could be argued that they're worse than the enclosures at Chester... and Chester's were deemed unsuitable over twenty-five years ago!
karoocheetah said:
On the other hand someone a lot more knowledgable in animal husbandry that me once said that 'a good measure of how happy and/or relaxed an animal is in it's environment is whether or not it breeds' the collection at Twycross currently has young Bonobo, Gorilla and Orangs that I saw so they must be doing something right?
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I believe that's debatable, animals in completely unsuitable surroundings often breed.
 
On the other hand someone a lot more knowledgable in animal husbandry that me once said that 'a good measure of how happy and/or relaxed an animal is in it's environment is whether or not it breeds' the collection at Twycross currently has young Bonobo, Gorilla and Orangs that I saw so they must be doing something right?


Actually I don't think this is a good measure of an animals well being at all - more a measure of compatability of mates as much as anything. Put a male and female together and as long as they get along then they will mate, it's not really anything to do with being "happy". This is not to generalise and say that they aren't happy but the opposite is also true. I think it's a common misconception to say if they have bred then they are "happy".
Also animals should also be bred for the right reasons so if they are part of a breeding programme and the recommendations are to breed then fine, but if they are recommended not to breed then that should also be followed. I am not being specific to Twycross here just commenting in general.
 
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Many animals breed under horrendous conditions (just think of mink farms).

Twycross has a lot of flaws and much is needed to bring the zoo to a modern standard, but I am still missing where it has deterriated? Apart from very few improvements, aren`t things pretty much as they were when Molly Badham left/died?
 
Yassa said:
Apart from very few improvements, aren`t things pretty much as they were when Molly Badham left/died?
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Yes, they are. All major buildings are the same really, apart from the new Himalaya centre and the new Children's Zoo, and maybe the Bornean Longhouse, though that might have been before she died, also the extended Elephant paddock and now the new Sri Lankan walkway.
 
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I'm missing that as well. I've visited at least twice a year for the last 10 years and in my opinion the zoo has a few extremely nice new bits now and for the rest they've pretty just maintained the status quo. I don't see much improvement nor any deterioration. I'd love to see wider improvements of course. I think there are a few really unacceptable exhibits, of which the green mile is one, but the rest I think are just underwhelming more than anything.

Couple of comments on other posts:-

'I don't actually care how pretty or well landscaped a zoo is. Yes it's nice to have a good cafeteria and gift shop, however my prime concern is the wellfare of the animals. If I have to forego a few luxuries on my visit so that the animals are better cared for, then so be it.' - It would be nice if that was the case for everyone but the reality is the opposite and for the bulk of visitors the facilities/lawns are paramount and it's those people that are going to provide the cash for the zoo to further improve itself. It's a sad reality that the zoo has to look at these areas first before it can look at all the exhibits. The infrastructure was in a very bad way so needed serious upgrading I'm sure.

'Molly Badham must be turning in her grave.' - I always find this one interesting because Molly is always painted as a pioneer and visionary and I think she possibly was when the zoo was first conceived, but I'm not sure she really kept apace with changing attitudes. I wonder whether the green mile would still be there if the zoo was directed by someone else much earlier , I certainly know some exhibits that would have been much larger than they are now and much more suitable for their occupants.

Anyways, I await news of further developments there, not sure how long I'll be waiting for though.
 
For me the most upsetting thing was seeing the new Himalaya and then seeing the appalling conditions the chimps have to endure, along with a lot of other animals. Sadly there has been a lot of deterioration in the chimp enclosures. I was totally shocked by the state of one in particular it houses the group with Flyn & Josie in, two of my favourite chimps. Indoor area is dank, dark, & dirty with filthy viewing windows covered in condensation and lacking in any redeeming features. The outdoor enclosure is little better. Yes these enclosures have needed updating for sometime but they are definitely worse than they were. (Not surprised Josie made a bid for freedom). I fail to understand as I said earlier how they can have been allowed to or can justify spending all that money on Himalaya when they have existing animals living in such terrible conditions.

They are not running a theme park with mechanical rides, they have a collection of wonderful, living, breathing animals that deserve far better conditions than they are providing. Is there no group that oversees how zoos are run and where money is spent?
 
rubymurray said:
I'm missing that as well. I've visited at least twice a year for the last 10 years and in my opinion the zoo has a few extremely nice new bits now and for the rest they've pretty just maintained the status quo. I don't see much improvement nor any deterioration. I'd love to see wider improvements of course. I think there are a few really unacceptable exhibits, of which the green mile is one, but the rest I think are just underwhelming more than anything.

Couple of comments on other posts:-

'I don't actually care how pretty or well landscaped a zoo is. Yes it's nice to have a good cafeteria and gift shop, however my prime concern is the wellfare of the animals. If I have to forego a few luxuries on my visit so that the animals are better cared for, then so be it.' - It would be nice if that was the case for everyone but the reality is the opposite and for the bulk of visitors the facilities/lawns are paramount and it's those people that are going to provide the cash for the zoo to further improve itself. It's a sad reality that the zoo has to look at these areas first before it can look at all the exhibits. The infrastructure was in a very bad way so needed serious upgrading I'm sure.

'Molly Badham must be turning in her grave.' - I always find this one interesting because Molly is always painted as a pioneer and visionary and I think she possibly was when the zoo was first conceived, but I'm not sure she really kept apace with changing attitudes. I wonder whether the green mile would still be there if the zoo was directed by someone else much earlier , I certainly know some exhibits that would have been much larger than they are now and much more suitable for their occupants.

Anyways, I await news of further developments there, not sure how long I'll be waiting for though.
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I am obviously a little naive expecting people to put the welfare of the animals before their own comforts. Too much of an idealist I think. We visit zoos every weekend as we love watching the animals and taking pictures. For us the welfare of the animals is of paramount importance and we will not support any zoo that doesn't appear to do this. I do understand the need to provide good facilities for the paying public but feel in this instance commerce has been given centre stage. If they had all this money to spend then they should have improved on the existing enclosures before embarking on the aquisition of new species.
 
daystar12uk said:
I am obviously a little naive expecting people to put the welfare of the animals before their own comforts. Too much of an idealist I think. We visit zoos every weekend as we love watching the animals and taking pictures. For us the welfare of the animals is of paramount importance and we will not support any zoo that doesn't appear to do this. I do understand the need to provide good facilities for the paying public but feel in this instance commerce has been given centre stage. If they had all this money to spend then they should have improved on the existing enclosures before embarking on the aquisition of new species.
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I've never been to Twycross, and from the descriptions and photos I don't think I'm missing much. But I do have to take exception to the notion that the zoo should not have built the (admittedly extremely odd) Himalaya complex before fixing up the various animal exhibits. It sounds to me like the Zoo creatively applied for and received a government "community development" grant that would never have been available for building pure animal exhibits, and turned it into something that in theory will generate positive cash for the Zoo, allowing it in the future to make other animal-related changes.

Many times, zoos are limited as to how they can spend money due to the restrictions of those governments, individuals or companies who have providing the funds. I think this is a classic case of that.....
 
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