Paignton Zoo Paignton News 2020

TriUK said:
Non-news really, but thought I’d share; I went shopping for my Mum in Paignton yesterday so decided on Morrison’s...., it gave me a chance to peer through and see Cassowary, Green Peafowl & Egret. I could hear Gibbons and Lion. So, in the afternoon I used my Lockdown exercise time to run over to Torquay and see the Penguins & other birds at Living Coasts for 5 minutes. I was very careful and stayed well away from others but wondered if any other zoochatters have the relative luxury of being close to a collection & ‘peeking’ in without breaking lockdown rules? I thought of Regents Park straight away?
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We've now had a good old nose around the zoo's perimeter in an attempt to spot animals. We've been up and down cul-de-sacs (culs-de-sac?) at the kangaroo/zebra and ABC ends of the zoo but all the houses get in the way of a view. I'd heard that the orangs are visible from houses above the ABC, but only from their back gardens it would seem (although some aviaries can be seen in places). Today we were in the woods below the Takin and the Nature Trail area, which was interesting if nothing else!
 
Simon Tonge has given a rather pessimistic account of what it's like to run a zoo with no visitors:
While our zoos are closed | Paignton Zoo
He says a zoo without visitors is not really a zoo but a breeding centre. However, breeding more animals would be irresponsible if a zoo was unable to reopen. Which made me think of the pregnancy test kits recently donated for the orangutans, a story the local newspaper ran a week ago. Maybe they should ask for donations of contraceptives instead. How quickly things change.
How to tell if your great ape is pregnant…
 
Gigit said:
Simon Tonge has given a rather pessimistic account of what it's like to run a zoo with no visitors:
While our zoos are closed | Paignton Zoo
He says a zoo without visitors is not really a zoo but a breeding centre. However, breeding more animals would be irresponsible if a zoo was unable to reopen. Which made me think of the pregnancy test kits recently donated for the orangutans, a story the local newspaper ran a week ago. Maybe they should ask for donations of contraceptives instead. How quickly things change.
How to tell if your great ape is pregnant…
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His first comment is is right, and he is one of the first to point out along with Colchester, the risk of some of of our zoos closing for good. Other European countries recognise the risk, and the importance of their zoos - France, Germany, Czech Republic etc; but our Government has confirmed that it is not going to do any more for UK zoos, although of course we continue to lobby in the hope they will change their mind.

It is an assumption on here that only the 'small' places are at risk, but this is not the case. Some of our famous names have huge debt burdens and require enormous amounts of money to stand still. It looks as though it will take the closure of one of these to bring the situation to a head, and shame the Government into doing something.

The media is only interested in either bad stories or those about fluffy animals; so there is little information available for the public, whose low level support is notable and continuous. The silence too of the media celebrities from Sir David Attenborough down, who have used zoos to further their own careers, is very disappointing too - the very places they have used are at risk, and whilst Drew Pritchard and Kevin Bacon tell the public to stay-at-home-or-they-will-die, famous animal-people are saying nothing...

However, I don't agree that animal breeding can be switched on-and-off to suit (hopefully!) temporary circumstances. The cycle often takes years to complete, as we know from some of our successes, and his comments on this are ill-informed and simplistic.
 
Gigit said:
We've now had a good old nose around the zoo's perimeter in an attempt to spot animals. We've been up and down cul-de-sacs (culs-de-sac?) at the kangaroo/zebra and ABC ends of the zoo but all the houses get in the way of a view. I'd heard that the orangs are visible from houses above the ABC, but only from their back gardens it would seem (although some aviaries can be seen in places). Today we were in the woods below the Takin and the Nature Trail area, which was interesting if nothing else!
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I think the Park Paddocks @ London Zoo are a thing of the past. I remember seeing groups of White Storks, Demoiselle Cranes, Barnacle Geese and Muntjac in them over the years.
One of the best sights from outside the Zoo always used to be giants and sheep on top of the Mappin Terraces.
 
Simon Tongues comments are concerning. Speculation can be a scary and terrible thing, but if one of the 3 zoos had to close, which one would it be? So sad!
 
TriUK said:
Simon Tongues comments are concerning. Speculation can be a scary and terrible thing....
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Scare tactics are the way the UK is handling this - just look at every TV advert slot...
In the meantime, the fluffy animal stories continue.
Even if Tongue spoiled it a little in his final comments, he is to be commended for speaking out.
Perhaps the UK's animals will be better off housed in other countries which actually value them...?
This is what the silence and the Government will achieve.
 
TriUK said:
..... but if one of the 3 zoos had to close, which one would it be? So sad!
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Why just one?
It is likely to be those with the highest level of debt, combined with the highest outgoings and costs.
We then get back to the old issue of exactly how this is done, assuming that suggestions made on this site that all you have to do is to co-opt local farmers to shoot animals which their own (and other) Vets refuse to euthanase, would not work in the UK.
This should be built in the the closure plan which all zoos are required to have, but we are told that none actually do.
 
Statement on the zoo's Facebook page

Paignton Zoo is concerned at recent press speculation that it is considering euthanasing some of its animal collection. Nobody from the zoo has said this. The current crisis would have to be much worse before such a move would even be contemplated. Having said that, nobody should underestimate the financial challenge facing us. Like all zoos we currently have no income at all but our costs are still extremely high, running to hundreds of thousands of pounds per month. This is clearly an unsustainable situation so it would be remiss of the zoo's owner, the Wild Planet Trust, were it not to be looking very hard at what it can do to mitigate the loss and protect itself, and its zoos, for the future. We suspect that every single charity, business and enterprise in the country is doing exactly the same. We are very grateful for the support that has been offered to us and for the donations that we have received in the last few weeks.
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TriUK said:
This was from Devonlive and the Facebook comments are disturbing! Lots of hate messages on both sides unfortunately!
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I really wonder as I thought there was a strict social media policy to block any hate speech or inappropriate comments?! So much so for Facebook's own moderation and its CEO Mark Zuckerberg marketing oriented PR talk (it is just that ...).

A second issue is truthfully a sensationalist press within the UK that is only interested in fat cat headlines. But again, I thought there was a thing called misrepresentation in the press which usually should be corrected by way of an public complaint.

I am also somewhat shocked to learn though that UK newspaper readers - those with ultra negative hate speech as well as those seeking to advocate the zoo's points of view - seem equally unable to live up to any form of civil, constructive and reflective discourse. A rather worrying state of affairs do not ye all think?
 
Nothing surprises me about the state of the UK at the minute! It’s Daily Mail, Sun reading Tory majority are toxic! I fear that this Trust may have to close Living Coasts or cease to spend the much needed capital to bring Paignton Zoo back to its former glory & to be able to attract holidaying tourists from the ‘north’ who compare it to Chester & YWP. We need to rally around zoos, not knock them!
 
TriUK said:
Nothing surprises me about the state of the UK at the minute! It’s Daily Mail, Sun reading Tory majority are toxic! I fear that this Trust may have to close Living Coasts or cease to spend the much needed capital to bring Paignton Zoo back to its former glory & to be able to attract holidaying tourists from the ‘north’ who compare it to Chester & YWP. We need to rally around zoos, not knock them!
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At least the media publicity has resulted in an increase in donations today. I wouldn't be surprised if Living Coasts was sacrificed. I don't think it's ever made a profit?
 
Gigit said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Living Coasts was sacrificed.
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I was thinking the same thing, Newquay and Paignton probably get enough footfall from locals and tourists, whereas LC probably gets the tourists but I can't imagine many locals visit more than once every year or two. They don't add much (size obviously limits that though), and there's not a lot to see once you've done the aviary, and if you're not into birds then that won't hold the attention for too long. Best placed bar and restaraunt in Torquay though...
 
Gigit said:
At least the media publicity has resulted in an increase in donations today. I wouldn't be surprised if Living Coasts was sacrificed. I don't think it's ever made a profit?
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Whilst I'm sure Living Coasts loses money, and must be severely haemorrhaging it at the moment (fresh fish, aquarium and filtration costs will not be cheap), I'm not sure what a sacrifice would look like.

Perhaps a close-down and evacuation of animals (for now) but, given the site and build thereon, I'm struggling why anyone else would want it to use for anything different (as the conversion costs would be massive and it's a weird location). Maybe it could be evacuated and mothballed for now and re-started down the line?

"SeaLife Torquay" anyone? I'm half joking but also half serious that it might be a possibility if abandoned by "Whitely Trust" (or whatever it's called nowadays) -that said, (given aquarium running costs and an uncertain future) I'm not sure whether SeaLife would have the resources/motivation to get the place back "on line". If it did happen maybe we'd finally get Sea Otters in the Sea Otter enclosure. :)

All this is, of course, idle speculation and I would truly prefer the place to carry on "as is/was". Hopefully it'll be back operating for the summer season which I'd imagine is it's most lucrative period by a considerable margin.
 
This could mean something or nothing, but since news is in very short supply, I'll mention it anyway - we've walked past the camel area of the zoo many times since lockdown and Carmel has been visible, apart from once in April, usually sitting in the same sort of place. We couldn't see her today.
 
Gigit said:
This could mean something or nothing, but since news is in very short supply, I'll mention it anyway - we've walked past the camel area of the zoo many times since lockdown and Carmel has been visible, apart from once in April, usually sitting in the same sort of place. We couldn't see her today.
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I really don't think speculation like this is needed...
 
Gigit said:
This could mean something or nothing, but since news is in very short supply, I'll mention it anyway - we've walked past the camel area of the zoo many times since lockdown and Carmel has been visible, apart from once in April, usually sitting in the same sort of place. We couldn't see her today.
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Hope she’s ok. As a herd animal it’s sad she’s on her own. As there is a distinct lack of news coming out of the zoo (apart from some excellent photo updates on Facebook) it is difficult to know how & if things are progressing with certain areas of the zoo. In theory (staffing through lockdown will obviously impact), the camel and old goat/takin paddocks were due to be used as off show areas for the now scrapped savannah expansion. There was the recent Banteng signage and Im sure they would need access to the camel side for grazing if there is more than a pair arriving? Maybe check again on Carmel in the coming days? She could be in the elephant house? I was watching the macaques webcam yesterday and the zoo looks great in full bloom; can’t wait to get in and see some of my favourite trees & thank the staff in person for all they are doing.
 
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