Paignton Zoo Paignton News 2020

Pertinax said:
I'm sure I've seen more than 4 on past visits- more like 6 or 7. So possibly/probably there were a couple more deaths of females between 2014 - 2018.
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They indeed did have 0.4 at the start of 2018.

PZ lost their 2 old breeding females (b. 2001 and b. 2005 resp.) a few weeks apart in March 2018, so only their 2 female offspring born in 2009 were left.

Now, it may just be they lost one of the 2 remaining bongo after that ... as Gigit mentioned. This should be Adina (the one that passed on in April 2019).
 
@Nisha I know that you made predictions on Big Cat arrivals at Edinburgh Zoo,so can you please make predictions on Big Cat arrivals at Paignton Zoo?
 
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@Gigit or @Pertinax the experts of the Apes at Paington Zoo,do iver of you know why Mali and Tatu were originally separated from the main Orangutan group? Additionally why has Gambira never had offspring?I predict the answer is because she was born through an incestuous mating between her Mother Bulu and Uncle Nickall. In addition to being the project of incest Gambira has been plagued with deformities and health problems. The medical issues include an infected throughtsack and deformities to her legs. The video I have posted a link too explains that Gambira has recently undergone leg surgery. I can only guess that the leg surgery was to rectify the leg defects.
Finally as Wousan is unrelated to Nataliya will she reside at Paington Zoo for her whole life and eventually breed with him. I'm no Studbook expert but I think that Gambira as a non-breeding female should move to Monkey World in exchange for Awan. I say this as Monkey World is not a participant in the breeding program of Bornean Orangutans,as well as this Awan will probably have to move house in the near future and this seems like the perfect opportunity for Paington to a gain a breeding mate for Wousan. Awan is also a similar age to Nataliya so would make a good playmate once Tatau leaves Paington Zoo bound for Colchester Zoo.
 
The Hedgehog said:
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@Gigit or @Pertinax the experts of the Apes at Paington Zoo,do iver of you know why Mali and Tatu were originally separated from the main Orangutan group? Additionally why has Gambira never had offspring?I predict the answer is because she was born through an incestuous mating between her Mother Bulu and Uncle Nickall. In addition to being the project of incest Gambira has been plagued with deformities and health problems. The medical issues include an infected throughtsack and deformities to her legs. The video I have posted a link too explains that Gambira has recently undergone leg surgery. I can only guess that the leg surgery was to rectify the leg defects.
Finally as Wousan is unrelated to Nataliya will she reside at Paington Zoo for her whole life and eventually breed with him. I'm no Studbook expert but I think that Gambira as a non-breeding female should move to Monkey World in exchange for Awan. I say this as Monkey World is not a participant in the breeding program of Bornean Orangutans,as well as this Awan will probably have to move house in the near future and this seems like the perfect opportunity for Paington to a gain a breeding mate for Wousan. Awan is also a similar age to Nataliya so would make a good playmate once Tatau leaves Paington Zoo bound for Colchester Zoo.
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Mali and Tatty have been kept apart from Wousan to prevent breeding - presumably the long-term plan was always to move them. Also it may have had something to do with them not all getting on - six orangs together is probably pushing it. Gambira's parents were Bulu and Bulu's son, Nakal. He was aged 7 when Gambira was born and not thought to be capable of fathering a child. I don't think the implications of 'incest' apply to orangutans.

There's no reason why Natalia and Wousan shouldn't breed in due course but I doubt whether anyone is in a position to know whether she'll spend all her life at Paignton. I personally can't see the benefit of bringing Awan to Paignton when they already have one breeding female, Chinta, one potential breeding female, Natalia, and two females who are supposed to leave but one or both could stay, if that was what they wanted. As I've mentioned before, Mali and Tatty are related to Tiga at Colchester so are not going there to breed but possibly to be held until somewhere suitable becomes available. I don't know all the ins and outs. The zoo would probably be highly amused to know that I am being described as an expert rather than just an intensely interested visitor!
 
@Gigit don't put yourself down,you and @Pertinax are the Ape experts I bet you too can predict moves within the European Ape network before they even occur. In my opinion you are both Ape experts who should be respected as so. If the Studbook Keepers for Western Lowland Gorillas and Bornean Orangutans all fell unwell I would trust the both of you to manage the Studbook you are gifted Ape experts!!
 
Gigit said:
Mali and Tatty have been kept apart from Wousan to prevent breeding - presumably the long-term plan was always to move them. Also it may have had something to do with them not all getting on - six orangs together is probably pushing it. Gambira's parents were Bulu and Bulu's son, Nakal. He was aged 7 when Gambira was born and not thought to be capable of fathering a child. I don't think the implications of 'incest' apply to orangutans.

There's no reason why Natalia and Wousan shouldn't breed in due course but I doubt whether anyone is in a position to know whether she'll spend all her life at Paignton. I personally can't see the benefit of bringing Awan to Paignton when they already have one breeding female, Chinta, one potential breeding female, Natalia, and two females who are supposed to leave but one or both could stay, if that was what they wanted. As I've mentioned before, Mali and Tatty are related to Tiga at Colchester so are not going there to breed but possibly to be held until somewhere suitable becomes available. I don't know all the ins and outs. The zoo would probably be highly amused to know that I am being described as an expert rather than just an intensely interested visitor!
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@Gigit when you say that the implications of insect are not relevant in Orangutans,are you saying that Gambira’s parentage isn’t too blame for her disabilities and boughts of illness? Your the Orangutan genus out of the pair of us so I presume your correct. My logic behind my statement that inbreeding causes disabilities and weaknesses.
 
@Nisha could you please predict what will happen with regards to Big Cat arrivals/departures at Paignton Zoo? I think that Shakira should be retired from breeding. In feline years she’d be the age of a human residing in a Nursing home and watching TV all day while reading My Weekly. On a serious note I hope that a mate comes to Paignton Zoo to breed with one of the Lion siblings. In addition I think a brand new breeding pair of Sumatran Tigers should arrive.@Nisha what are your thoughts??
 
The Hedgehog said:
@Gigit when you say that the implications of insect are not relevant in Orangutans,are you saying that Gambira’s parentage isn’t too blame for her disabilities and boughts of illness? Your the Orangutan genus out of the pair of us so I presume your correct. My logic behind my statement that inbreeding causes disabilities and weaknesses.
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What I was trying to say, perhaps pedantically, is that 'incest' is a human crime. Apes are not subject to human laws - male gorillas don't murder infants for example. What happened between Bulu and her son, Nakal, was inbreeding and that can, of course, cause problems. As far as I know, Gambira had been in good health until she began to suffer from airsacculitis quite recently. Bulu suffered from this chronic illness too so it could be genetic, but it's not uncommon in orangs in zoos. Tatty and Natalia's father, Demo had it too. Bulu lived to 46, Demo died at 16. Nakal is now 30 and lives in retirement in Spain.
 
Gigit said:
What I was trying to say, perhaps pedantically, is that 'incest' is a human crime. Apes are not subject to human laws - male gorillas don't murder infants for example. What happened between Bulu and her son, Nakal, was inbreeding and that can, of course, cause problems. As far as I know, Gambira had been in good health until she began to suffer from airsacculitis quite recently. Bulu suffered from this chronic illness too so it could be genetic, but it's not uncommon in orangs in zoos. Tatty and Natalia's father, Demo had it too. Bulu lived to 46, Demo died at 16. Nakal is now 30 and lives in retirement in Spain.
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@Gigit firstly I would like to say I like the way you used my quote from a few threads back,to explain that human crimes don’t apply to apes. Secondly it is refreshing to know that Gambira’s health issues won’t nescerally cause premature death.
 
Video talks about the Komodo dragon and the pygmy slow loris have been added to the zoo's Facebook page.
 
I'm really appreciating the new content from the zoos media department/keepers - It's a great way to keep locals (mostly) and others engaged, and a fantastic way to encourage donations/wishlist purchases at such a difficult time.

I hope the trend continues after lockdown :)
 
as some of you know Arya the Asiatic Lioness is moving to London Zoo in the near future. This means that her twin brother Yali will be the sole resident Asiatic Lion at Paington Zoo. Can someone please tell me if a Lioness has been identified to move to Paington to become Yali's mate?
 
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