Paignton Zoo Paignton Zoo Gorillas.

Don't worry about it. I'm sure I'll find out sooner or later. If you do get any more titbits of info I'm sure you'd post them. It sounds as if they HAVE made some sort of changes to the enclosure. The main 'cage' is okay but the dens were only built for a very small group... The irony is this(Chessington) is the most successful group in UK outside Aspinall's parks in Kent.

Did you mean Mapema has already been introduced, or is surrounded 'at a distance'...(don't worry if you can't answer that either..;) )
 
I did get the impression that Mapema was actually in with the females. Apparently Duisberg is a lovely zoo, well worth a visit.
 
Gigit said:
I did get the impression that Mapema was actually in with the females. Apparently Duisberg is a lovely zoo, well worth a visit.
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There's no reason to waste anytime time with a well socialised male. It would actually help him to settle more quickly.

I went to Duisburg Zoo once but long before the current Gorilla enclosure was built. I've seen a number of photos though- the outside looks very good and I think the indoors has been upgraded recently. Hopefully they'll have their very first baby gorilla soon...
 
new gorillas?

Now that Mapema and Damisi have both left, do you know when any new 'small boys' may be arriving to join the group- or do you think they are staying with four for the time being?

I guess there could also be plans for 'Kumbuka' to move on in due course but probably not yet awhile.
 
I heard fairly recently that two would arrive 'later this year'. Then, of course, there would be the 6 months quarantine.......... The plan originally was for Kumbuka to stay with the others, and for Pertinax to have a few challenge-free years, but he does seem to be growing quite fast now. That said, they all get on well. The dates for changes are always very vague.
 
Gigit said:
The dates for changes are always very vague.
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Its always been so with animal movements... usually they take months or years- but occassionally more quickly- just depending on circumstances.

I guess Kumbuka will stay on until somewhere else needs him. Its a pity he is (distantly) related to Twycross's younger animals(his grandmother is Zaire, a halfsister of Mamfe) otherwise he would a good replacement for Sekondi...
 
I saw some interesting gorilla behaviour today. Kumbuka, Kivu and Kiondo were in the lower part of the show den - I think a keeper was down there - and Pertinax was on the upper level. He seemed curious as to what was going on and started to go down, inadvertently cornering the others who had begun to climb up. There was a lot of shouting and rushing about with Pertinax charging at them. Suddenly, they all advanced on him and he backed away! Then things calmed down. Normally, if Pertinax is moving about, they will keep at a distance from him.
 
Gigit said:
There was a lot of shouting and rushing about with Pertinax charging at them. Suddenly, they all advanced on him and he backed away! Then things calmed down. Normally, if Pertinax is moving about, they will keep at a distance from him.
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That is typical behaviour, usually seen with females. A silverback can dominate or bully one female but several together can see him off. If a male acts aggressively toward one female, the others in the group will usually come to her rescue, often screaming etc and forming a 'front' to drive the male away and he'll always back off. Even a really angry single female seems able to drive a male off the same way if her temper is really up.. a bored male in captivity will sometimes tease a female just to get this reaction as a sort of game.

My guess is Pertinax came down and surprised the younger ones by invading their 'safety' distance, causing the aggressive reaction on their part which made him back off.
 
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CZJimmy said:
BBC NEWS | England | Devon | Silverback's 'brush' with dentist

Just seen this on the bbc.

Pertinax had a dentist appointment ;)
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Glad to see that Pertinax has recovered okay. Chessington Zoo lost a silverback gorilla when he underwent an almost identical operation- he died under the anaethsetic- there's always a slight element of risk..:(

A year or so ago Pertinax also had to be temporarily isolated to have treatment for badly cracked feet. Maybe he doesn't move about enough. Whenever I visit Paignton there's a 90% chance I'll find him in one place- lying down on his little shelf indoors!
 
Claus & Pertinax

When Paignton's Ape House first opened, the first Gorillas for the new bachelor group were Claus & Pertinax, two young silverbacks who had grown up in the group in Cologne, Germany, though they weren't related and neither was born there. Pertinax was born in Stuttgart and handraised, Claus in Frankfurt was mother(?)-raised. Both were from well -represented lines so neither was a priority for breeding, hence being chosen as 'bachelor' males.

At Cologne they were on good terms, being only young males secondary to the adult male 'Kim', though I believe Pertinax was the more dominant of the two. The move to Paignton in 1997 however radically changed their relationship, Claus became dominant and so aggressive they could no longer be kept together at all. A new home was fortunately found for Claus, who was sent to Bristol zoo's newly completed 'Gorilla Island' where after fathering one offspring he later died. Pertinax has continued to live at Paignton successfully with a succession of younger males ever since Claus left.
 
Interesting insights into the gorillas's behaviour. I have to admit that I used to spend all of my time in the Ape House on the orangutan side, glancing at the gorillas as I entered and left. But since becoming a zoobeat spy, I can now tell one from another and am getting an idea of what they're up to. Pertinax was stretched out by the window in the sun yesterday morning while the others played about on the upper deck. We debated whether they would ever dare go on 'his' platform and decided probably not.
When the youngsters arrived they would hang onto the grille above the visitor viewing window and people would say 'oooh he's looking at you' when in fact they were staring through the public and watching the keepers. Now they do seem to look at visitors and have learned to knock on the glass.
 
Continuing the discussion from 'orangutan island', I don't know if I visit at the wrong times, but I don't often see the gorillas outside. The door is normally always open, unlike when Damisi was still here and they had to share. Every so often, the keepers put different enrichment devices outside - they've had wind chimes hanging off the climbing frame, and a huge tyre for example. But I did hear that recently Kivu and Kiondo climbed high up in one of the trees at the far end of the island.
I noticed yesterday while on the dead end path watching the orangutans, that there is little chance of seeing the gorillas from there, unless they are on the climbing frame (or up a tree). They've cut back the bushes on the visitor side but that end of the island is very shrubby.
 
Gigit said:
Pertinax was stretched out by the window in the sun yesterday morning while the others played about on the upper deck. We debated whether they would ever dare go on 'his' platform and decided probably not.
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They probably would if he was elsewhere, but not if he was near. I once saw a younger male approach when Pertinax was 'asleep' on his shelf, to try and take some of his uneaten food. Pertinax was off the shelf in a flash and the youngster fled with what he managed to grab. Even though Pertinax is gentle I don't think he'd tolerate any of them using his special place...though having said that, on one of my last visits he seemed to have 'adopted' one of the younger ones, which at that time was either Mapema or Damisi. I remember they were lying down asleep near each other- Pertinax on his shelf, the younger one nearby on the floor. I noticed several times how this male would stay quite near him. Does he do this with any of the current ones?
 
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Gigit said:
I don't know if I visit at the wrong times, but I don't often see the gorillas outside.
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Its commonplace at zoos with large open Gorilla islands-if they have the choice the gorillas would rather stay indoors most of the time as they definately seem to feel more secure under cover and don't seem to like open sky much. Its the same story at other places with open Gorilla enclosures like Bristol & Port Lympne, though at London and Blackpool they are shut outside during the main part of the day.. Most visits to Paignton I've see the males go outside, but often only for short periods and most of the day is spent inside. Still, at least they have the choice. I think the more covered areas there are outside(shelters, trees etc), the more they'll go out - which is why I'm surprised they haven't rebuilt the 'cave.'

On Paignton's island I'd actually like to see more tree cover ON the island, but less on the visitor's side of the water!
 
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female gorilla rumour.

Mention has been made on the Introductions page by 'Nosey Parker' (love the name incidentally:)) that someone has been talking about possible female Gorillas for Paignton.

Whether its on the cards or not, there's no reason why the existing group has to be just males. Two of them are still pretty young and its good for them to have had at least some experience with females anyway (especially if potentially breeders in the future).

The structure of the group could possibly remain the same with the females slotting in quite easily, or they might totally reorganise - depending on which male they wanted to breed with. I like the idea but is it wishful thinking here?
 
taun said:
Seems it as the zoo world would lose a valuable zoo to place unwanted Male gorillas.
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I have a feeling that having kept just males very successfully for a number of years now, that Paignton would like to be allowed to try their hand at breeding too. ;)

My best scenario (unlikely, I know) was that the Orangutans could be moved and the Ape House then hold two Gorilla groups-one bachelor, one breeding. I agree that if they added females to the existing group(which I think WOULD be perfectly possible) it would cease to be a 'male' group' and they couldn't then realistically add MORE males in the future as this would almost certainly cause fighting.
 
Since I read about this rumour, I've been wondering if they would move the orangutans. If it was away from the zoo, I'll be the one camped outside the Ape House barricading the exit! I'm just off to see them now so may be be able to chat to someone.
 
Am all for them trying to breed gorillas and would love them to get some female gorillas.

It would be good if they set out a rule or recomendation that anyone joining the Gorilla breeding program provide room for a bachelor group. Unlikely I know but surely than they would create atleast a few more places to send unwanted males.

Be good to here what you dig up Gigit.
 
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