Paignton Zoo Paignton Zoo
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Whipsnade have both... The ones on 'Bison Hill' - the open downland escarpment on the north edge of zoo's land- have always been American. They phased them out some years ago but then by popular request got another pair in which have multiplied to 3 or 4. The European Bison (about six) are near the Chimpanzees.
.... also Woburn, but not Flamingoland. Port Lympne has a small group- about 7.
To my mind phasing out the American bison will not be missed. I would rather have it that zoos in the boreal climes invest in establishing breeding groups of European bison. Compared to its American cousin the European species is far more endangered and certainly deserves more interest from zoos in the EAZA region (including the UK ... that is)! 
Besides zoos in US and Canada should be the mainstay of captive American bison herds and form a safeguard population against extinction (and maintaining pure-bred steppe bison genes).
Besides zoos in US and Canada should be the mainstay of captive American bison herds and form a safeguard population against extinction (and maintaining pure-bred steppe bison genes).
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
There are two large Bison farms in the south west of England, both open to the public, overall there are probably more American bison on display in the UK now as at any point in the last couple of decades. Sure, Flamingoland got rid of a large herd, Chester and Marwell no longer have them, but they are still found at Blair Drummond, Knowsley, Woburn, Manor House, Noah's Ark zoo farm, Cricket St. Thomas, Bush Farm Bison Centre, Whipsnade, Paignton (for now), Port Lympne, Trotter's world, 'Cattle Country' adventure park, and several private working bison farms which already have over 100 animals. 'Cattle country' also claims to have a 50-strong herd.
Bison,elk & red deer at Bush Farm - Gallery and Centre
Bath - Animal Farms - Zoos - Cattle Country
On the other hand, there are so few European Bison in the UK in comparison, at the Highland Wildlife Park, Howletts, Port Lympne, and Whipsnade. Dartmoor and Norfolk Wildlife parks also used to keep this species until the 1990s.
So residents complained about the loss of the Bison from Whipsnade? Shame they didn't do that about the Musk oxen....
Bison,elk & red deer at Bush Farm - Gallery and Centre
Bath - Animal Farms - Zoos - Cattle Country
On the other hand, there are so few European Bison in the UK in comparison, at the Highland Wildlife Park, Howletts, Port Lympne, and Whipsnade. Dartmoor and Norfolk Wildlife parks also used to keep this species until the 1990s.
So residents complained about the loss of the Bison from Whipsnade? Shame they didn't do that about the Musk oxen....
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I'm not sure Marwell have ever had American Bison? They certainly used to have Wisent though.
The residents around Whipsnade probably don't know much about what's inside the zoo- only the Bison could be seen prominently from the surrounding countryside..
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
I should have made my sarcasm clearer with a
! I just meant what a shame the Musk Oxen weren't a view the residents had become accustomed to. They might have lodged an objection and forced whipsnade to bring them back!Without having current access to an old guidebook, I am sure Marwell had American Bison until maybe 1983/1984, and European bison for longer.
I should have made my sarcasm clearer with a
Without having current access to an old guidebook, I am sure Marwell had American Bison until maybe 1983/1984, and European bison for longer.
Yes, I realised what you meant about the Musk Oxen. The irony here is of course the local residents probably don't have a clue about much else that happens at Whipsnade....
Regarding Marwell and American Bison- I'm still not convinced they ever had them...(prove me wrong
)
Like Jelle, I wouldn't miss american bison. Especially that European animals can be hybrids with cattle, like 99% of bison. Maybe more gaur and banteng?
Wisent is always in need of more diverse holders. These animals have interesting political history - war in Europe means that wisent are in danger of being quickly poaching out. They went extinct in the wild during Russian Revolution, than almost extinct again during WW2, and in Caucasus many were wiped out during two Chechen wars. Logical conclusion is that as many politically diverse holders as possible are needed.
And in time, think about semi-natural wisent in some British forests and valleys. Wild they never be, but many places could benefit from wisent as natural grazer and tourist attraction.
Wisent is always in need of more diverse holders. These animals have interesting political history - war in Europe means that wisent are in danger of being quickly poaching out. They went extinct in the wild during Russian Revolution, than almost extinct again during WW2, and in Caucasus many were wiped out during two Chechen wars. Logical conclusion is that as many politically diverse holders as possible are needed.
And in time, think about semi-natural wisent in some British forests and valleys. Wild they never be, but many places could benefit from wisent as natural grazer and tourist attraction.
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
It would certainly be a natural step on from the current conservation grazing already practiced on a lot of trust-held land in this country. Hopefully we will see the Wildwood trust do something with wisent, although I suspect they will work with re-created 'auroch'-type domestic cattle when they set up woodland reserves. But I agree wholeheartedly, the UK is particularly backwards when it comes to reintroducing species long lost from these islands considering the noise we tend to generate over the conservation of species in the former European colonies.
I wouldn't dismiss American Bison for their impurity, though. It's only our knowledge that it's there that really poses any problem. In fact, those endangered taxa that could successfuly recieve an infusion of new genes from the equivalent domestic stock should their populations get so low as to become genetically weak may have a distinct advantage over those with no such available genetic pool. Aren't our captive gaur all now genetically inferior animals due to inbreeding, much the same as babirusa, anoa and chevrotains are heading that way? True, right now numbers are not so low in the wild that we need consider such drastic measures. I just mean, if an ungulate species was in a real crisis in terms of numbers, and could produce viable offspring with a morphologically-similar domestic breed, what difference is it to us as long as we can bring the species back with enough of its genes to allow it to be phenotypically intact and able to behave and survive in it's original range following introduction? Certainly the herd of plains bison in North America fulfil the exact same ecological role as their (pure) ancestors pre-bottleneck. It could be argued from some studies that the Cambodian subspecies of Banteng is impure having acquired certain genes from the Kouprey, but if the mating(s) happen/happened by chance, it's hard to construct a solid set of criteria for evaluating the conservation value of a (sub)species based on its purity.
I'm still trying to find out whether Marwell did in fact have American Bison....I'm sure they were in the paddock currently occupied by Sitatunga, I would swear they weren't the european bison and that these were elsewhere, but then this could be a case of a failing memory, seeing as on another thread I revealed remembering a white-naped mangabey as a jet-black animal...
I wouldn't dismiss American Bison for their impurity, though. It's only our knowledge that it's there that really poses any problem. In fact, those endangered taxa that could successfuly recieve an infusion of new genes from the equivalent domestic stock should their populations get so low as to become genetically weak may have a distinct advantage over those with no such available genetic pool. Aren't our captive gaur all now genetically inferior animals due to inbreeding, much the same as babirusa, anoa and chevrotains are heading that way? True, right now numbers are not so low in the wild that we need consider such drastic measures. I just mean, if an ungulate species was in a real crisis in terms of numbers, and could produce viable offspring with a morphologically-similar domestic breed, what difference is it to us as long as we can bring the species back with enough of its genes to allow it to be phenotypically intact and able to behave and survive in it's original range following introduction? Certainly the herd of plains bison in North America fulfil the exact same ecological role as their (pure) ancestors pre-bottleneck. It could be argued from some studies that the Cambodian subspecies of Banteng is impure having acquired certain genes from the Kouprey, but if the mating(s) happen/happened by chance, it's hard to construct a solid set of criteria for evaluating the conservation value of a (sub)species based on its purity.
I'm still trying to find out whether Marwell did in fact have American Bison....I'm sure they were in the paddock currently occupied by Sitatunga, I would swear they weren't the european bison and that these were elsewhere, but then this could be a case of a failing memory, seeing as on another thread I revealed remembering a white-naped mangabey as a jet-black animal...
It would certainly be a natural step on from the current conservation grazing already practiced on a lot of trust-held land in this country. Hopefully we will see the Wildwood trust do something with wisent, although I suspect they will work with re-created 'auroch'-type domestic cattle when they set up woodland reserves. But I agree wholeheartedly, the UK is particularly backwards when it comes to reintroducing species long lost from these islands considering the noise we tend to generate over the conservation of species in the former European colonies.
I wouldn't dismiss American Bison for their impurity, though. It's only our knowledge that it's there that really poses any problem. In fact, those endangered taxa that could successfuly recieve an infusion of new genes from the equivalent domestic stock should their populations get so low as to become genetically weak may have a distinct advantage over those with no such available genetic pool. Aren't our captive gaur all now genetically inferior animals due to inbreeding, much the same as babirusa, anoa and chevrotains are heading that way? True, right now numbers are not so low in the wild that we need consider such drastic measures. I just mean, if an ungulate species was in a real crisis in terms of numbers, and could produce viable offspring with a morphologically-similar domestic breed, what difference is it to us as long as we can bring the species back with enough of its genes to allow it to be phenotypically intact and able to behave and survive in it's original range following introduction? Certainly the herd of plains bison in North America fulfil the exact same ecological role as their (pure) ancestors pre-bottleneck. It could be argued from some studies that the Cambodian subspecies of Banteng is impure having acquired certain genes from the Kouprey, but if the mating(s) happen/happened by chance, it's hard to construct a solid set of criteria for evaluating the conservation value of a (sub)species based on its purity.
I'm still trying to find out whether Marwell did in fact have American Bison....I'm sure they were in the paddock currently occupied by Sitatunga, I would swear they weren't the european bison and that these were elsewhere, but then this could be a case of a failing memory, seeing as on another thread I revealed remembering a white-naped mangabey as a jet-black animal...
I do not condone the practice of outbreeding endangered taxa with near-relatives. If stocks get so low IN CAPTIVITY we should redouble our efforts to infuse new blood from confiscated wild stocks (illegal trade in endangered species is the first and foremost "winning" trade over that in drugs, so stocks of all of these are available ... and we can confiscate them and make the traders pay in terms of money and prison terms) and improve zoos' ties with in situ conservation programmes.
In what you are saying, you sound like most of the taxa - anoa, babirusa etcetera - are already uber critically endangered and they are not. For you making an example out of the fact that both domestic genes were infused into the wisent and bison. Both were taken into captivity when wild stocks had dwindled to almost zilch and yet we managed to save both taxa be it with some genetic impurities here and there (the bison more so than the wisent, you just have to ask the Polish studbook managers).
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
I agree with you fully. There is no reason to start 'domesticating' the species I mentioned that are currently suffering genetically in captivity, while wild stocks exist in the current numbers. I merely use these as an example of how unhealthy a very small population of hoofstock can become when numbers are that low. My metaphor was to compare the genetic health of current zoo populations of gaur, babirusa etc with the remaining world populations of bison at those critical points, just to make the point that we should not disregard a success story with an ungulate species that really did come back from the brink, as it's impurities may have played a significant role in the overall genetic robustness of future generations. And certainly, there's little point replacing American Bison with an exhibit of gaur, as suggested, until there can be some deal worked out to bring much needed fresh genes to the european captive population (perhaps through AI with bulls in Indian zoos?).
!!!!!......which reminds me, has anyone seen that ISIS states that whipsnade have just had a gaur birth? I'm cautiously excited!
!!!!!......which reminds me, has anyone seen that ISIS states that whipsnade have just had a gaur birth? I'm cautiously excited!
Yep johnstoni,
Whipsnade have just recorded a birth.
Regarding the gaur or any other species with low populations for that matter in Europe, it is imperative that zoos come to a Global Species Management Plan. The WAZA has this as a policy document for future species management, but it is yet to be applied to individual species.
I could mention quite a few species that would really benefit from global management, e.g. okapis, Indian rhinos, Malayan tapirs, Goodfellow's tree kangaroos, babirusa, scimitar-horned oryx .... are just some of the taxa that come to mind. Within a GSMP there is also room for supporting field research and in situ conservation initiatives. These in itself increase the chances of illegally kept endangered species to be absorbed into the captive population (an example has been a male and a female snow leopard from Central Asia that were sent on to NY Bronx and Zuerich respectively).
However for this policy to work all accredited zoos that are member of any of the regional zoo organisations would need to cooperate and/or become involved. That also entails that zoos within EAZA, AZA or ARAZPA establish ties to individual (perhaps sub-standard) zoos in range states. We do not only have a task in management and breeding of endangered species, this also involves education and frequent exchanges of information and animals/plants between regions.
I believe it can be done, but then we need to throw off our hat that defines European or US/Canadian zoos superior to those in South America or South-East Asia, Africa, India, Phillipines and China. If we really want to make a difference in saving our planets wildlife and plant resources, we have to get these regions and concerned people in these countries on board.
I will leave it at that ... (though I feel very strongly about the subject).
Whipsnade have just recorded a birth.
Regarding the gaur or any other species with low populations for that matter in Europe, it is imperative that zoos come to a Global Species Management Plan. The WAZA has this as a policy document for future species management, but it is yet to be applied to individual species.
I could mention quite a few species that would really benefit from global management, e.g. okapis, Indian rhinos, Malayan tapirs, Goodfellow's tree kangaroos, babirusa, scimitar-horned oryx .... are just some of the taxa that come to mind. Within a GSMP there is also room for supporting field research and in situ conservation initiatives. These in itself increase the chances of illegally kept endangered species to be absorbed into the captive population (an example has been a male and a female snow leopard from Central Asia that were sent on to NY Bronx and Zuerich respectively).
However for this policy to work all accredited zoos that are member of any of the regional zoo organisations would need to cooperate and/or become involved. That also entails that zoos within EAZA, AZA or ARAZPA establish ties to individual (perhaps sub-standard) zoos in range states. We do not only have a task in management and breeding of endangered species, this also involves education and frequent exchanges of information and animals/plants between regions.
I believe it can be done, but then we need to throw off our hat that defines European or US/Canadian zoos superior to those in South America or South-East Asia, Africa, India, Phillipines and China. If we really want to make a difference in saving our planets wildlife and plant resources, we have to get these regions and concerned people in these countries on board.
I will leave it at that ... (though I feel very strongly about the subject).
1. We had a discussion about this on another thread. Not all American bison are impure- several herds in the USA, including in Yellowstone and in some other parks are completely untainted by cattle genes. Probably zoo bison come from the impure stocks though.
2. Wisent at Marwell were definately where the Sitatunga live-100% no doubt. I'm very certain too (99%) they never kept American Bison there.
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
What is actually stopping a european zoo importing some captive babirusa or gaur from Asia? Have the Bornean/ Visayan Warty Pigs been breeding in Europe for years or are these fairly recent imports?
I know the core of the Port Lympne tapir group were imported as 2.2 from Singapore (tho this may have been about 15-20 years ago).
A couple of years back Toronto zoo were all set to import a large group of Proboscis monkeys from South-east asia that were in captivity following the forest fires (I guess howletts were doing the same thing at that time with langurs, that's how they got the grizzled leaf monkeys). They backed out (correct me if I'm wrong) due to public opposition and the rate at which the monkeys held in Indonesia were dying. So, what, really are the barriers to bringing in new blood to dwindling (european) captive populations? How would a global management system speed up the red tape associated with international movement of endangered species/ quarantine/ expense? I always assume things aren't possible and we are left with what we have, but then you get something to remind you that things aren't impossible, with a small UK cente (the RSCC) importing Sun Bears, and Palawan binturong for example.
Or is your point more that all zoos, globally, should give all their species over to global managment programs to stop some institutions holding onto and 'wasting' the genes of their valuable animals?
I know the core of the Port Lympne tapir group were imported as 2.2 from Singapore (tho this may have been about 15-20 years ago).
A couple of years back Toronto zoo were all set to import a large group of Proboscis monkeys from South-east asia that were in captivity following the forest fires (I guess howletts were doing the same thing at that time with langurs, that's how they got the grizzled leaf monkeys). They backed out (correct me if I'm wrong) due to public opposition and the rate at which the monkeys held in Indonesia were dying. So, what, really are the barriers to bringing in new blood to dwindling (european) captive populations? How would a global management system speed up the red tape associated with international movement of endangered species/ quarantine/ expense? I always assume things aren't possible and we are left with what we have, but then you get something to remind you that things aren't impossible, with a small UK cente (the RSCC) importing Sun Bears, and Palawan binturong for example.
Or is your point more that all zoos, globally, should give all their species over to global managment programs to stop some institutions holding onto and 'wasting' the genes of their valuable animals?
!!!!!......which reminds me, has anyone seen that ISIS states that whipsnade have just had a gaur birth? I'm cautiously excited!
I think someone posted this birth on the forum several months ago. Its presumably only just been updated on ISIS.
I think this pair of Gaur have bred before but this is the first live calf they've had. They are now kept in the ex Black Rhino yards and enclosure near the Giraffes- they were the only things I missed seeing on my last visit(before the calf) as I thought they had died/ been moved out..
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