Edinburgh Zoo Pandamonium to hit Edinburgh! #1

[Maguari]

Well look how excited enthusiasts get at things like cloudrunners yet from what I've heard and seen they're generally invisible or inactive!

Speaking personally I've always found them far more active than pandas, though of course being smaller it's easier for them to hide!

By my reckoning I've seen Giant Pandas six times (London and San Diego once each and Vienna and Berlin twice each) and they've been active twice - at San Diego and one of the Berlin visits - so not too bad a ratio.

 

[adrian1963]

By the reaction of some people on here I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if say London or Chester had got the Panda's.
I say well done to Edinburgh for getting the jump on the others and well done to the staff as I am sure there as been alot of hard work behind the scenes which we will never know about.
The point made earlier somes it up some Big Cats dont move around to much so why all the bad reaction.

 

[zoogiraffe]

By the reaction of some people on here I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if say London or Chester had got the Panda's.
I say well done to Edinburgh for getting the jump on the others and well done to the staff as I am sure there as been alot of hard work behind the scenes which we will never know about.
The point made earlier somes it up some Big Cats dont move around to much so why all the bad reaction.

Just for the record my reaction would have been the same regardless of which collection got the in fact if it had been Chester,it would probably have been alot stronger!!
That said it is good news that we will have Giant Panda back in the country.

 

[SMR]

Only those who have never seen a giant panda could really equate their behaviour to big cats, the two are quite different.

And it's worth mentioning that "some people" are just as entitled to their opinions as everyone else. Besides, nobody is saying that this is a bad thing or denying the economic benefits to Edinburgh, just that giant pandas don't necessarily float everyone's boat, especially if you have already seen them, or have queued for hours to see very little.

 

[Shirokuma]

I think there might be a tendency with some people to rise above what they view as popular enthusiasm.

Perhaps giant pandas are regarded as being a bit too 'mainstream' and a true enthusiast would be quite blasé about them in their view. I don't think it has anything to do with them going to Edinburgh as opposed to London or Chester.

I must say that I think it is great news for Edinburgh, one of my favourite zoos with a unique collection in the United Kingdom.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the whole panda industry and China's behaviour in general but I'm excited that they will be coming and will certainly make a trip to Edinburgh once they are established. I'm very excited and curious to see what the enclosure plans will look like.

 

[Maguari]

Perhaps giant pandas are regarded as being a bit too 'mainstream' and a true enthusiast would be quite blasé about them in their view.

That seems a slightly uncharitable view! And who's to say who is a 'true enthusiast' anyway? Is someone (like me!) who finds a tayra more exciting than a panda more of an enthusiast than the panda fans? I wouldn't say so. Anyone enthusiastic enough to sign up here is a true enthusiast.

I think we just have to accept that some people just aren't as panda crazy as others!

 

[Shirokuma]

I'm not being critical or saying who is or isn't a true enthusiast! I know we all are and I love this site and always look forward to reading the latest posts.

I'm just saying that occasionally I feel there is an attitude from some people on the forum (not necessarily in this thread, I hasten to add) that is dismissive of others who are perhaps less knowledgeable, experienced or articulate or have a more anthropomorphic view of animals and it bothers me.

I'm probably projecting this feeling onto this discussion...

Perhaps here isn't the most appropriate place to say it so let's get back to pandas.

 

[amy]

Maybe naively I took most of the more 'negative' comments as being tongue in cheek and wasn't expecting any response on here to them. However they do seem to have struck a nerve.

Back to the pandas. While behaviourally they don't compare, say to big cats, to a typical zoo goer, a sleeping animal is precisely that, a sleeping animal. Be it a lion, tiger, chimp, sheep, panda or whatever, it ain't that exciting. (Unless it's particularly close to a viewing area so closer observations than normal can be made).

In years gone by I made a trip to Edinburgh to see Mercedes, the first polar bear I'd clapped eyes on since distant memories of those at Dudley. Now this was a long journey and when I got there, lo and behold she was asleep in the middle of her compound. All day. That, to me was a let down, though in hindsight I don't know what I was expecting. On the flip side, I've also seen the koalas at Edinburgh and thought they were amazing. Even though the most energetic thing they did was something that may have been a sneeze.

I guess it depends on the expectations you go with as to how you come away from the day. If people expect to see big black and white balls of cute fluff curled up, they wont be disappointed. However, if they expect an all action exhibit that you can't take your eyes off it........maybe not.

Finally, my only prediction for the whole thing is that I think many people may be surprised by how small they are. Not that they're actually small, but I think tv does give the impression of a much larger animal.

 

[Maguari]

Finally, my only prediction for the whole thing is that I think many people may be surprised by how small they are. Not that they're actually small, but I think tv does give the impression of a much larger animal.

A very good point - I remember thinking they weren't as big as I was expecting when I first saw them.

 

[Pertinax]

I think it is great news for Edinburgh, one of my favourite zoos with a unique collection in the United Kingdom.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the whole panda industry and China's behaviour in general but I'm excited that they will be coming and will certainly make a trip to Edinburgh once they are established.

Scientific considerations, particularly the dentistry research aspect, are probably a strong reason, or even the prime one, that Edinburgh have been successful in their bid for a pair. Whereas I think breeding wise, each pair removed to a foreign zoo actually somewhat lessens their chances of breeding compared to if they had stayed in China. The Chinese seem to have perfected the breeding techniques nowadays in their 'Panda factories' where they produce large numbers of cubs most years through a mixture of both natural mating and artificial insemination breeding systems. The breeding record for the Pandas in foreign zoos is relatively poor by comparison. It will be interesting to know whether the 'deal' for this pair is similar as for other Panda pairs sent to foreign zoos, where there is not necessarily the same scientific research involvment.

 

[Pertinax]

the 'Four Ages' of ChiChi.

She wasn't doing much the day I saw Chi Chi, but she did die the next day!

You were pretty lucky to see her then!

As I remember, ChiChi's behaviour changed throughout her time at London Zoo and there were several main stages in her life;

1. The cute bundle of fun that arrived with touring animal dealer Heini Demmer. She was initially just a temporary exhibit until London announced they had purchased her from him.

2. The young adult that was still playful and entertained by her keepers, though becoming increasingly morose and unpredictable until she attacked a young keeper, after which she was treated more circumspectly.

3. The mature ChiChi- the much publicised 'political' breeding attempts with male AnAn from Moscow- both in London and Moscow. ChiChi was apparently very stressed by these as she had become totally humanised and when in oestrus related to her keepers, not to the male Panda. The book 'Men & Pandas' by Desmond Morris gives a remarkably indepth description of this period of her life.

4. The 'old' ChiChi, when she slept many hours a day, often offshow in her den.

 

[Vulpes]

1. The cute bundle of fun that arrived with touring animal dealer Heini Demmer. She was initially just a temporary exhibit until London announced they had purchased her from him.

So is this "rent-a-panda" scheme a new thing then? if they were able to "purchase" a panda? I always loved Gerald Durrells nickname for panda, "piebald prostitutes"

I would be interested to learn by how much the Koala boosted visitor numbers and if the panda will boost it by significantly more?

Any more news on where the baboons will go? and any sort of a time frame for the panda arrival?

 

[Maguari]

and any sort of a time frame for the panda arrival?

The Edinburgh Zoo Twitter feed said they were hoping for later this year. That's as much as has been said, I think.

 

[Pertinax]

So is this "rent-a-panda" scheme a new thing then? if they were able to "purchase" a panda? I always loved Gerald Durrells nickname for panda, "piebald prostitutes"

Any more news on where the baboons will go?

ChiChi was long before the days of Rent a Panda(pair). I don't know how the dealer Heini Demmer came by her but he touted her around several European zoos I believe, before turning up with her in London.

I think most of the earlier Panda pairs sent out of China were as political 'gifts' to the people of the country concerned. Probably London's pair Ching Ching and ChiaChia, and the ones that went to places like Paris, Madrid and Berlin. I know the very aged male BaoBao at Berlin is not a rental. The cubs of any of these weren't China's anymore either. I believe some years back Mexico tried to borrow a male from Japan to breed with as both animals involved were gifted, not loaned, so a cub would have been theirs too(didn't work)

Baboons- maybe an electrified-fenced paddock somewhere else in the Zoo?

 

[Satan]

It's has been a loan agreement for a long time. I think it is ever since the Chinese Government became serious about trying to save the species. A lot of the early Panda's were just taken from the wild by 'tourists'.

 

[amy]

Looking at ISIS, Berlin is not listed as having Giant Pandas. It's not important and I realise ISIS isn't always regularly updated but can anyone think why it wouldn't be listed on there? It's not like they've only just aquired the species.

 

[Maguari]

Looking at ISIS, Berlin is not listed as having Giant Pandas. It's not important and I realise ISIS isn't always regularly updated but can anyone think why it wouldn't be listed on there? It's not like they've only just aquired the species.

Berlin Zoo stopped reporting to ISIS years ago - almost nothing is listed for them. Very occasionally an odd record shows up but it's a relic. Not sure why they stopped - last time I checked the Tierpark were still listed.

 

[amy]

Ok thanks for that.

 

[Pertinax]

It's has been a loan agreement for a long time. I think it is ever since the Chinese Government became serious about trying to save the species. A lot of the early Panda's were just taken from the wild by 'tourists'.

There have really been three stages;

1. Early explorers and 'tourists' taking Pandas and exporting them, mostly to American zoos, also London. early 1900's up to about 1950.

2. Then Post 1960's the 'political gift from the Chinese Govt' era (as described above.)

3. The current 'Rent a Panda' system.

 

[Gentle Giant]

What sort of jump did visitor numbers take when the Koala arrived? I think that panda will be a much bigger draw but realistically will they draw millions more than the koala?

I dont understand why people on here are being negative about the arrival of one of the most iconic animals in the world to a zoo in the UK, especially on a forum of zoo enthusiasts!

I personally think its fantastic, they are a very rare animal that Edinburghs laboratories are going to work with to help insitu conservation, they need all the captive breeding opportunities they can get and if it encourages more people to visit zoos and learn about conservation then really and truly does it matter if it didnt move on the day you were at the zoo! Seriously guys, almost every zoo Ive ever visited display big cats, and they dont do much!

One of the rarest large mammals in the world coming to a zoo in the UK for the first time in 17 years and you are worried about whether or not it will move, you remind of the kids I see banging on the glass or throwing something in the enclosures to make the occupants move!

Interesting article

The apparent newsworthiness of pandas coming to Edinburgh zoo may be largely down to the public's delight in this distinctive bear. ...

Pandas are political animals | Henry Nicholls | Comment is free | The Guardian