San Diego Zoo Pandas are leaving San Diego Zoo

ThylacineAlive said:
How many years ago was that now, though? Just because a plan doesn't work out for one zoo at one time doesn't mean it won't for another zoo at another time. One could easily have said "Ask ABQ how well that plan turned out" when SDZ went after Tasmanian Devils. I suspect it will only be a matter of time before someone imports snub-nosed monkeys, though I do doubt it will be a US zoo.
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That's a fair point, but the takeaway I got from that quip (and that I agree with) is that dealing with the Chinese government on animal imports or exchanges can be very unpredictable. They have been known to do a 180-degree turn because of things that aren't even related to the zoo or the process - in the case of the monkeys and LA, I think it was a diplomatic spat. This isn't unique to China by any means, but it's a known issue and makes it hard for any zoo to count on plans involving them to pan out.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I think people often forget that there is a list of native species the US seldom, if ever, allows to be imported to other countries...
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As someone who has grown up seeing North American animals a lot, I'm curious about what we have that other countries might want?

I'm also wondering if the moderators think this whole panda conversation should be moved to a separate thread, as it now makes up the majority of pages. Makes no difference to me, but I have a feeling this topic will continue to generate discussion...
 
Coelacanth18 said:
As someone who has grown up seeing North American animals a lot, I'm curious about what we have that other countries might want?
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AmbikaFan said:
I didn't know this. What's on the list?
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Red Wolves (probably Mexican, too), Black-Footed Ferret, Sea Otter (possible, but seldom allowed out), California Condor, and American Crocodile (only one sex can be exported) all come to mind. There are probably others as well. I'd imagine acquire Bald Eagles nowadays might be troublesome as well considering US zoos need special permits in order to keep them.

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Red Wolves (probably Mexican, too), Black-Footed Ferret, Sea Otter (possible, but seldom allowed out), California Condor, and American Crocodile (only one sex can be exported) all come to mind. There are probably others as well. I'd imagine acquire Bald Eagles nowadays might be troublesome as well considering US zoos need special permits in order to keep them.

~Thylo
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I didn't realize bald eagles were held so closely. I live five miles from a former heiress's estate called Dukes Farm, definitely not a zoo, where two chicks were hatched on a live cam in just the last few days!

Second adorable baby eagle hatches live on beloved Duke Farms ‘eagle cam’
 
AmbikaFan said:
I didn't realize bald eagles were held so closely. I live five miles from a former heiress's estate called Dukes Farm, definitely not a zoo, where two chicks were hatched on a live cam in just the last few days!

Second adorable baby eagle hatches live on beloved Duke Farms ‘eagle cam’
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I could be mistaken but I'm fairly certain all holders of Bald Eagles in the US need a permit from the government to keep them. This includes rescue centers and private facilities.

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
I could be mistaken but I'm fairly certain all holders of Bald Eagles in the US need a permit from the government to keep them. This includes rescue centers and private facilities.

~Thylo
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Doris Duke was a major force in horticulture research, so I'm sure this facility would be properly accredited. I didn't realize either the stiff regulations on bald eagles or that they were still threatened. I saw it in the news and thought something along the lines of, oh how nice, bald eagles are now so common that they're even soaring over my neck of the woods lol. Thanks for the info.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Red Wolves (probably Mexican, too), Black-Footed Ferret, Sea Otter (possible, but seldom allowed out), California Condor, and American Crocodile (only one sex can be exported) all come to mind. There are probably others as well. I'd imagine acquire Bald Eagles nowadays might be troublesome as well considering US zoos need special permits in order to keep them.

~Thylo
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Now I'm curious:. Are these animals not exported because of their dwindling numbers or some attempt to create a monopoly a la China with giant pandas? Are sea otters and American crocodiles endangered now? Now I'm thinking I may not have ever seen an American croc.
 
AmbikaFan said:
Now I'm curious:. Are these animals not exported because of their dwindling numbers or some attempt to create a monopoly a la China with giant pandas? Are sea otters and American crocodiles endangered now? Now I'm thinking I may not have ever seen an American croc.
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I'm not sure, probably more the former but I'd imagine the latter has something to do with it, especially where Sea Otters and American Crocodiles are concerned. And yes, they're both endangered and I've never known either not to be.

~Thylo
 
Thanks. I thought I had seen sea otters at the NY Aquarium, but now I'm not so sure. You've raised some valuable points with this whole topic--which of course brings us right back to giant pandas. The other three zoos holding pandas have all negotiated extensions. I wonder when those contracts end and whether they have a "must return immediately" clause....
 
AmbikaFan said:
Thanks. I thought I had seen sea otters at the NY Aquarium, but now I'm not so sure. You've raised some valuable points with this whole topic--which of course brings us right back to giant pandas. The other three zoos holding pandas have all negotiated extensions. I wonder when those contracts end and whether they have a "must return immediately" clause....
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This is solely my personal thought but I do believe that is the case atm. That does not mean things won't change before the contracts expire and does not mean they will not get more pandas in the future as SDZ plans to, however.

~Thylo
 
ThylacineAlive said:
This is solely my personal thought but I do believe that is the case atm. That does not mean things won't change before the contracts expire and does not mean they will not get more pandas in the future as SDZ plans to, however.

~Thylo
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It's a brilliant move, putting a real, ltangible, loveable face on a business issue (tariffs) that most people only think of in the most abstract and intangible way. People know and feel what they will be losing.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Red Wolves (probably Mexican, too), Black-Footed Ferret, Sea Otter (possible, but seldom allowed out), California Condor, and American Crocodile (only one sex can be exported) all come to mind. There are probably others as well. I'd imagine acquire Bald Eagles nowadays might be troublesome as well considering US zoos need special permits in order to keep them.

~Thylo
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All of those species are endangered though, so it does make sense for the most part. Although, American Crocodile and Sea Otter range across several countries so not sure why the restrictions there.

ThylacineAlive said:
I could be mistaken but I'm fairly certain all holders of Bald Eagles in the US need a permit from the government to keep them. This includes rescue centers and private facilities.

~Thylo
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You are correct. The same is true for Golden Eagles. My understanding is that at least one person from the applying facility must prove they have sufficient experience with eagles before a permit for either will be granted.
Really, any native species of bird/mammal requires a permit from at least one section of government. Not so much for reptiles, except ones like Gila Monster, Desert Tortoise, and crocodilians. These permits are generally renewed on a yearly basis.
 
Great Argus said:
Although, American Crocodile and Sea Otter range across several countries so not sure why the restrictions there.
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The word on the grapevine for a long time has been that these are seen as national treasures and thus the existence of a breeding population outside the country is seen as a threat to tourism - however well-founded this belief is - and that as a result there are unofficial agreements not to export animals capable of establishing ex-situ populations between the USFWS and the equivalent authorities in other countries where these species range. Exceptions have been made for Sea Otters recently to some extent, due to rescue facilities in Alaska being at capacity, but I believe the embargo on female American Crocodiles is still very much in force.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
The word on the grapevine for a long time has been that these are seen as national treasures and thus the existence of a breeding population outside the country is seen as a threat to tourism - however well-founded this belief is - and that as a result there are unofficial agreements not to export animals capable of establishing ex-situ populations between the USFWS and the equivalent authorities in other countries where these species range. Exceptions have been made for Sea Otters recently to some extent, due to rescue facilities in Alaska being at capacity, but I believe the embargo on female American Crocodiles is still very much in force.
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Are they also endangered? And are there other species on this "national treasure" list?
 
AmbikaFan said:
Sorry, Thylo! Dementia! I thought I asked an "or" question and got caught up in the second part. Even now, it's hard to imagine these two being endangered, especially the otters.
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All good. I find it surprising that you think Sea Otters are hard to imagine as endangered considering they've been endangered since before we were all born :p

~Thylo
 
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