Penguins at Hamleys

For goodness sake, this hysterical reaction is simply bizarre.

1. Reindeer are domestic animals. The fairly pampered life enjoyed by these ones is probably considerably more comfortable than that lived by their cousins in the 'wild'.
2. If Mr Hector has really never taken a sadder photo, then I would be surprised.
3. Comments such as the one by willtheman, above, could be made just as easily about zoos in general.
4. If this was the animals' permanent homes, the comments about size might have been germane. It isn't, so they're not.
5. The sainted Gerald Durrell used to put on displays of his animals in department stores. What an evil, callous, cruel man he must have been!
 
willtheman45 said:
The reindeer are in the type of pen I see baby farm animals at my farm in. Nowhere near big enough for reindeer-glad they didn't get penguins as goodness know what theyr'e conditions would be like. Having seen reindeer in the Cairngorms with hundreds? of acres of natural habitat this 'publicity stunt' makes me feel angry.
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The irony of that statement is that the Cairngorm reindeer are brought down off the mountains every Christmas to be exhibited in just such pens throughout the country! They are the biggest supplier of reindeer for such events. Don't forget that these Reindeer are domestic animals afterall and only exist in the first place because of human needs.

Surely the quality of the space is much more important than the size of any enclosure. A small enclosure that contains everything the animal needs to meet its physical and mental needs is far better than a massive pen with little in the way of stimulaion. And how much stimulation do a handful of penguins need for a few hours? A bit of fish, a pool to swim in, conspecifics to interact with? Perhaps a flat-screen TV and table football?
 
Shorts said:
"According to the RSPCA, it is not against the law to have the arctic animals in a heated shop"

Is anyone going to tell them they've got the wrong pole?
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When I read it back, it seems that the artic reference is to the reindeer and not the penguins.
 
sooty mangabey said:
1. Reindeer are domestic animals. The fairly pampered life enjoyed by these ones is probably considerably more comfortable than that lived by their cousins in the 'wild'.
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I agree there. It is really no different to temporarily exhibiting a couple of Shetland Ponies or calves under similar conditions. These reindeer look in very good condition, perfectly unbothered in their temporary accomodation here. Hamly's Toyshop are only doing what many other commercial outlets do nowadays, using live Reindeer as 'props' in the run-up to Christmas which has now become commonplace.

Anyone worried about ill treatment to Reindeer should really consider how the Lapps and Russian Reindeer herders handle their big herds of animals, lassooing them to catch them, tripping and then holding them down on the ground, killing them to eat and for their skins, sawing their antlers off while in velvet..oh, to be a 'semi-wild' reindeer. In fact, these Reindeer are pretty lucky really...;)

I think cancelling the Penguins was a good move though....
 
Followed this story with interest,had strong suspicions that this penguin display would not materialise, I recall a few years ago Hamley's had proposed to have Norman Barrett appear in the stores window presenting his innocent and most enjoyable budgie act, Hamley's were informed that if this performance went ahead they would then be in need of a good glazier, talk about animal extremists, I realise however that it was not exactly the same scenario with the penguins, I can see both sides ,perhaps these in store animal displays have had their day and the public today don't expect it, I recall in the sixties seeing a small zoo in a large London department store, that sort of thing would never happen now.
 
Shorts said:
Looks like hysteria won this one.
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It always seems to these days. The problem is that even when you engage in reasoned debate this makes no difference to the animal-rights lobby. And if they fail to get things stopped via peaceful means they will turn to vandalism and violence. Sad fact of life.

As regards the penguins I suspect (but don't know) that the penguins may have been Jim Clubbs which were hand-reared and trained and used in films etc. If this is the case I doubt if they would be bothered at all.
 
Looks like I opened up a whole can of worms here...

Maybe I went a bit over the top-I'm not some Born free foundation member. I just don't like the way these reindeer were treated on this occcasion-they are domestic animals but it seems like a small area within a busy area of this shopping centre.
This is my opinion so you are welcome to disagree but I do feel these reindeers are not in a good enough area(and I'm not totally against animals in the department store as long as they are kept in acceptable conditions.)
And I think the saddest photos of my life is a bit over the top!
 
John Dineley said:
It always seems to these days. The problem is that even when you engage in reasoned debate this makes no difference to the animal-rights lobby. And if they fail to get things stopped via peaceful means they will turn to vandalism and violence. Sad fact of life.
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In my zoo career, whenever I start to get grumpy about ignorant, destructive visitors I am reminded that in fact it is a small minority who are that way. The rest are reasonable or even better. But a very few cooks makes it all seem bad. And now, thanks to the internet, one or two cranks can magnify themselves into a "movement," or even "public opinion." The public has no opinion.
 
You're right about the Penguins being accustomed to such displays if they were coming from Clubbs.

Still, it seems public pressure(or hysteria?) won the day and now even the Reindeer have gone too.... Okay boys, get back in that horsebox, we're back off to Scotland (maybe).:rolleyes:
 
I think social media is an important communications tool in today's world - look at the protests in Iran for example. It allows people to engage in a direct and immediate way and the good examples outweigh the bad in my view.

I'm not hysterical, I simply think it's the wrong context in which to engage children with wildlife and many agree with me. People voiced their opposition and Hamleys responded. I think that's a good thing.

By the way, apparently this is what they have planned for next year ;-)

33986_482302802146_28896772146_5723657_3043344_n.jpg
 
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Pertinax said:
You're right about the Penguins being accustomed to such displays if they were coming from Clubbs.

Still, it seems public pressure(or hysteria?) won the day and now even the Reindeer have gone too.... Okay boys, get back in that horsebox, we're back off to Scotland (maybe).:rolleyes:
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And of course if they were in Lapland they could be making a one night only appearance on the dinner table :rolleyes: They make such lovely warm boots as well.
 
Glad it won't be going ahead, although I hope there weren't any threats of violence involved. They say that protesters didn't check their facts but it doesn't look like the shopping centre did either, look at the picture at the bottom ;-)
 
Shirokuma said:
I'm not hysterical, I simply think it's the wrong context in which to engage children with wildlife and many agree with me. People voiced their opposition and Hamleys responded. I think that's a good thing.
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Hamleys were threatened. That's not informed debate. As far as those involved in the 'animal rights' movement are concerned they are right and threats, intimation, violence and vandalism are legitimate actions to take. But not to worry Hamleys and others will not be having live animals again as they don't want their windows smashed in or their staff attacked.

Perhaps what is more appalling is the comments of Living Coast's director Elaine Hayes who clearly makes statements without knowing the facts.

Living Coasts Aquarium Criticized Hamleys Toy Shop in London for Live Penguin Display Zoo and Aquarium Visitor News

If these birds are the ones owned by Clubb then they are captive bred hand-reared and trained.

http://www.amazinganimals.co.uk/CMS/images/Newsletter_10.pdf
 
Animals in Big Stores.

Do you know if the Penguins on the Youtube Video at the shopping centre in Leicester are the same ones/from the same source as the ones that were to go to Hamleys?

The comments underneath that video are mainly very negative, talking about 'stress' and 'miserable', though its clear the birds are actually quite relaxed and inquisitive, approaching the fence and undisturbed by the assistant cleaning up after them. I did think they could have provided something a bit better for a pool though...;)

As these are obviously handraised/tame individuals it really isn't much different to domestic Poultry being temporarily confined in exhibition cages while at a Poultry Show. I don't particularly approve of this exhibit but I don't think the birds are suffering any hardship here.

Wild animals being exhibited in stores/shopping centres aren't new. I remember when I was a child visiting a temporary(travelling) 'children's zoo' in more than one large Department store- they usually held a selection of animals like Poultry(including ducks/geese), Parrots, rabbits, sheep/goats, Llamas, even Monkeys, Raccoons and (handraised) Fallow Deer, once even a halfgrown Lion....It seems these Penguin and Reindeer exhibits are at least partly a throwback to that style of exhibition, in order to attract more customers.
 
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