Perth Zoo Perth Zoo never had gorillas did it?

[Chlidonias]

Were you at the zoo in the 80 s ?
There was one that definitely looked like a gorilla.
Not a chimpanzee.
More than twice the height and weight of a human man.
Not a silverback.
Western gorilla. All black. Chimpanzees were in a block of pens and a quarter it's size. Not even close. I have never seen any animal that big before or since. It was enormous.

I understand that you are positive you saw a gorilla, but this is a memory from almost forty years ago, when presumably you were a child. Memories are not reliable.

Tetrapod, who posted earlier in the thread, used to work at the Perth Zoo.

The studbook for gorillas is available online - you can check it for yourself - and there was never any gorilla kept at Perth Zoo. Even though I already knew that I just went through it anyway just to be sure.

What you saw was almost certainly one of their chimpanzees.

 

[MRJ]

This is the primate I remembered seeing at Perth zoo. 1980s

Despite the label "Cross River gorilla" the animals pictured are mountain gorillas. If any adult mountain gorillas have been exhibited in zoos the numbers would have been countable on the fingers of one hand. However due to ecotourism in East Africa and association with the likes of David Attenborough and Dian Fossey, it is the most photographed and filmed sub-species of gorilla. My feeling is that with time your memory of what you actually saw has changed to the more familiar form of the mountain gorilla.

Not that your gorilla could be a Cross River gorilla, either, as this is the rarest and least known sub-species of gorilla.

 

[tetrapod]

As I mentioned previously there have never been gorillas at PZ!!! Entirely possible that the confusion is over Atjeh, the original large male orang who lived in the dome for many years prior to the apes moving to the current accomodation. He was an impressive character with his long dreads hanging down. Believe this was circa 77-81. No other animals have been housed in the exhibit since.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Yes I remember 1 only. Not multiple. Possible? Well the aviary I remembered was similar to this pic I found. Yet smaller. I recall it being circular an unattached from a building in the 80s. This was before my time 50s and 60s. Maybe it was an extremely large chimp ? Maybe it was a Gorilla ? They look different to me though.

The screen shot you posted has the chimp carrousel on it and as the more informed great ape / primate Zoochat members quote you might have your gorilla mistaken for.

I myself had a little check of some old IZY books and no, I am afraid no gorillas were ever present at Perth Zoo. Also glossed over the international studbook for gorillas, and again no evidence ever for gorillas at PZ (yes, 2 at Taronga and 2 at Melbourne, but that is it ...).

Only gorillas between 1960-1990:
M Buluman (b. 1958) since October 1961 at Taronga Zoo.
F Bulu (b. 1957) since April 1963 at Taronga Zoo
Both sent to Melbourne in October 1980.

M Rigo (b. 1970)
F Yuska (b. 1971)
Both arrived May 1973 at Melbourne Zoo.

Surely, both respected IZY and international studbook for gorilla records should underline what our Australian/Kiwi forumsters have already put to you in evidence. It seems reasonable to me that you should reconsider your opinion and keep an open mind to what is factotum.

 

[Pertinax]

Only gorillas between 1960-1990:
M Buluman (b. 1958) since October 1961 at Taronga Zoo.
F Bulu (b. 1957) since April 1963 at Taronga Zoo
Both sent to Melbourne in October 1980.

The last female at Taronga was called Betsy. She was the mother of silverback Buzandi now at Hanover and female Bahasha at Jersey.

Taronga did in fact have more gorillas than this initially- up to six I think, but the others (George Kong and Mary Kong are two names I know of) died quite young so probably do not feature in many official lists.

 

[Zorro]

No Gorillas ever at Perth zoo!

 

[Zoofan15]

The screen shot you posted has the chimp carrousel on it and as the more informed great ape / primate Zoochat members quote you might have your gorilla mistaken for.

I myself had a little check of some old IZY books and no, I am afraid no gorillas were ever present at Perth Zoo. Also glossed over the international studbook for gorillas, and again no evidence ever for gorillas at PZ (yes, 2 at Taronga and 2 at Melbourne, but that is it ...).

Only gorillas between 1960-1990:
M Buluman (b. 1958) since October 1961 at Taronga Zoo.
F Bulu (b. 1957) since April 1963 at Taronga Zoo
Both sent to Melbourne in October 1980.

M Rigo (b. 1970)
F Yuska (b. 1971)
Both arrived May 1973 at Melbourne Zoo.

Surely, both respected IZY and international studbook for gorilla records should underline what our Australian/Kiwi forumsters have already put to you in evidence. It seems reasonable to me that you should reconsider your opinion and keep an open mind to what is factotum.

The last female at Taronga was called Betsy. She was the mother of silverback Buzandi now at Hanover and female Bahasha at Jersey.

Taronga did in fact have more gorillas than this initially- up to six I think, but the others (George Kong and Mary Kong are two names I know of) died quite young so probably do not feature in many official lists.

In addition to King Kong (died 1968) and an unnamed wild born female who died at Taronga Zoo in 1961; six young gorillas were imported from the wild via animal dealers:

1.0 George Kong (1958) - died 04/10/1977
0.1 Mary Kong (1957) - died 02/07/1974

1.0 Little John (1958) - died 09/06/1972
0.1 Anabella (1958) - died 13/09/1977

1.0 Buluman (1958) - sent to Melbourne 1980
0.1 Betsy (1957) - sent to Melbourne 1980

Considering all six of these gorillas survived to reproductive age, it’s frustrating they were kept in these pairs.

Had Taronga formed a natural troop in the mid to late 60’s, headed by George Kong or Little John (since we know Buluman was sterile), they may have had breeding success.

 

[toothlessjaws]

Might be of interest: I actually saw Buluman's skeleton today - Melbourne have it on display in the "keeper kids" building.

If I remember right, at one point they had the main troop led by Buluman, but a blackback Motaba and Mzuri where also part of the troop as well as Besty, Yuska, G-Anne and Julia.

Sadly (and very unethically) Rigo was kept alone.

 

[Pertinax]

(since we know Buluman was sterile),

Do you know if its true that Buluman caught 'mumps' which is what rendered him sterile?

Btw I saw the original ape cages once, they were pretty awful. I doubt it would have been possible to group them any better at that time.

 

[Zorro]

Do you know if its true that Buluman caught 'mumps' which is what rendered him sterile?

Btw I saw the original ape cages once, they were pretty awful. I doubt it would have been possible to group them any better at that time.

You should of seen the Chimp cages at Taronga zoo in the 70s

 

[Zoofan15]

Might be of interest: I actually saw Buluman's skeleton today - Melbourne have it on display in the "keeper kids" building.

If I remember right, at one point they had the main troop led by Buluman, but a blackback Motaba and Mzuri where also part of the troop as well as Besty, Yuska, G-Anne and Julia.

Sadly (and very unethically) Rigo was kept alone.

I watched a doco about Betsy’s offspring - Buzandi (born 1991) and Bambuti (born 1994); and how they didn’t want to risk introducing them to their father, Motoba, as he was just seven years old when Buzandi was born and staff feared he’d injure him.

Initially, Motoba did live in Buluman’s troop (alongside Mzuri) but they were both removed (with each other for company) during the infancy of Betsy’s offspring. Mzuri was exported 1993 and by then, Motoba would have been of an age to contest Buluman’s leadership.

I believe Motoba rejoined the troop following Buluman’s death in 1998. This also ties in with the next batch of infants born 1999-2000, which were sired by Motoba.

Do you know if its true that Buluman caught 'mumps' which is what rendered him sterile?

I’ve never heard that, but that’s not to say it isn’t true. His sterility was mentioned briefly in Postcards from the Zoo, but was implied to have been something that was discovered later on.

 

[Pertinax]

Initially, Motoba did live in Buluman’s troop (alongside Mzuri) but they were both removed (with each other for company) during the infancy of Betsy’s offspring. Mzuri was exported 1993 and by then, Motoba would have been of an age to contest Buluman’s leadership.

I believe Motoba rejoined the troop following Buluman’s death in 1998. This also ties in with the next batch of infants born 1999-2000, which were sired by Motoba.


I’ve never heard that, but that’s not to say it isn’t true. His sterility was mentioned briefly in Postcards from the Zoo, but was implied to have been something that was discovered later on.

I saw the Melbourne gorilla group three times though can't remember exact dates of the last two;

1. 1981. In old grottoes. Buluman with Betsi and Yuska. Rigo not on show. (I only discovered it was Buluman I had seen, and not Rigo, after I compared my photos with others of him months later)

2. Circa 1990/1. In new enclosure. Buluman was with group including Motaba and Mzuri as young blackbacks + the two females from Jersey as well (I think). Rigo was alone in the old grottoes- having not seen him the first visit, I was struck at what a fine specimen he was.

3. Circa 1996/7. My photos show Betsy with her daughter Bambuti about 2 years old (known as Bahasha in Jersey) and the older Buzandi. Also Buluman was still the silverback. Motaba, also a young silverback by then, was in the adjacent grotto- I remember he kept climbing a tree to look over the wall. Rigo must have been offshow as I didn't see him.

I read about the mumps theory and Buluman somewhere, I had never heard this before either.

 

[Zoofan15]

I saw the Melbourne gorilla group three times though can't remember exact dates of the last two;

1. 1981. In old grottoes. Buluman with Betsi and Yuska. Rigo not on show. (I only discovered it was Buluman I had seen, and not Rigo, after I compared my photos with others of him months later)

2. Circa 1990/1. In new enclosure. Buluman was with group including Motaba and Mzuri as young blackbacks + the two females from Jersey as well (I think). Rigo was alone in the old grottoes- having not seen him the first visit, I was struck at what a fine specimen he was.

3. Circa 1996/7. My photos show Betsy with her daughter Bambuti about 2 years old (known as Bahasha in Jersey) and the older Buzandi. Also Buluman was still the silverback. Motaba, also a young silverback by then, was in the adjacent grotto- I remember he kept climbing a tree to look over the wall. Rigo must have been offshow as I didn't see him.

I read about the mumps theory and Buluman somewhere, I had never heard this before either.

The females from Jersey Zoo arrived 07/12/1997. Mzuri had been living at Jersey Zoo for four years at that time and due to a lack of success at integrating him with Julia and G-Ann, they were sent to Melbourne Zoo.

Buluman died 30/03/1998, three months after the Jersey females arrived. It would appear Motoba was introduced to Yuska, Julia and G-Ann; but not Betsy - who had two juvenile offspring. They were exported in 2001, which would have allowed Betsy to join Motoba’s troop.

 

[steveroberts]

This is the primate I remembered seeing at Perth zoo. 1980s

Is it possible you saw the female Kloss Gibbon which died at Perth Zoo in December 1984? I know its a lot smaller than a Gorilla (a lot smaller, even small by Gibbon sizes) but this is the only thing I can think of if PZ has never ever had a Gorilla even temporarily.

 

[Zorro]

Is it possible you saw the female Kloss Gibbon which died at Perth Zoo in December 1984? I know its a lot smaller than a Gorilla (a lot smaller, even small by Gibbon sizes) but this is the only thing I can think of if PZ has never ever had a Gorilla even temporarily.

I thought this post/s had been deleted for the trolling?

 

[steveroberts]

I thought this post/s had been deleted for the trolling?

Oh really I didnt know. Makes sense cos plain and simple PZ has never had Gorillas and for anyone to suggest Cross River Gorillas or Mountain Gorillas would have been kept in any Zoo ever is what all ZooChat people would know to be impossible. We're lucky to even have Western Lowland Gorillas in some world Zoos (I think I remember reading there was only one Eastern Lowland Gorilla ever in captivity?)

Thanks for heads up btw

 

[Zorro]

Oh really I didnt know. Makes sense cos plain and simple PZ has never had Gorillas and for anyone to suggest Cross River Gorillas or Mountain Gorillas would have been kept in any Zoo ever is what all ZooChat people would know to be impossible. We're lucky to even have Western Lowland Gorillas in some world Zoos (I think I remember reading there was only one Eastern Lowland Gorilla ever in captivity?)

Thanks for heads up btw

No problem Steve,
I believe that Antwerp zoo had some Mountain Gorillas years ago (1970s). @Kifaru Bwana
Also the San Deigo zoo did have to very large Gorillas many years ago which were claimed to be of the Mountain species but some had said they were the Eastern sub species.

 

[Pertinax]

for anyone to suggest Cross River Gorillas or Mountain Gorillas would have been kept in any Zoo ever is what all ZooChat people would know to be impossible.

True mountain gorillas(beringei) have been kept in zoos a few times- a young one(Reuben) at London in the 1960's and possibly one in the Bronx Zoo (Miss Congo)at a much earlier date. Neither grew to adulthood though. Amid considerable controversy, two females(Coco & Pucker) lived at Cologne Zoo in Germany into young adulthood for a few years between the late 1960's and mid 1970's. According to studbooks its possible Antwerp also had a few too in the past but cannot now be proven. None of these survived very long and keeping the species has never been a success.

Eastern Lowlands have in the past been kept at San Diego(2.0), Bronx(1.1), Oklahoma/Houston (1.0) Chester (1.1) and Antwerp (a number over time and also the only place to ever breed them) Its possible the odd one may have been kept elsewhere and not identified as such. Today Antwerp have a single female (Amohoro), the only one anywhere.

No Cross River gorillas have been kept outside Africa, and only one known specimen within Africa.

 

[Tim May]

Eastern Lowlands have in the past been kept at San Diego(2.0), Bronx(1.1), Oklahoma/Houston (1.0) Chester (1.1) and Antwerp (a number over time and also the only place to ever breed them) Its possible the odd one may have been kept elsewhere and not identified as such.

London Zoo had three eastern lowland gorillas "Meng" (arrived 1938); "Rundi" (arrived 1962) and "Tanga" (arrived 1962). All were labelled as mountain gorillas but are now known to have been eastern lowland gorillas.

 

[Pertinax]

London Zoo had three eastern lowland gorillas "Meng" (arrived 1938); "Rundi" (arrived 1962) and "Tanga" (arrived 1962). All were labelled as mountain gorillas but are now known to have been eastern lowland gorillas.

I forget them of course.