'Pets' in zoos

Devi

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Talking to a friend a few days ago he expressed disappointment that a zoo he'd been to had 'pets' in the reptile house. He was talking about things like burmese pythons, green iguana, bearded dragons, things that a lot of people keep at home.
So I thought I'd ask the question here, how do you feel about seeing more common domestic species in zoos? Is it right? Or does it make you feel a bit cheated?
 
I think you dont understand the term "domestic", those animals you listed are not domestic & the real question should be if these animals should actually be kept as "pets". People can buy primates, meerkats, coatis, skunks and all manner of reptiles and amphibians etc as "pets" and all these can be found at zoo's, but they are species that are not domesticated and their needs can not be meet by your average joe in their little flat - thats why they get specialist care in zoo's or better yet, left in the wild.
 
What exact magic treatment does a snake need that is given in a zoo but can't be achieved by anyone with the knowledge and inclination? I do not want to debate whether people should have pets with you, people keep many animals as pets whether you personally like it or not.
My question was to the zoo visitors as to whether they thought there was value in exhibiting animals commonly kept as pets.
 
Most people do not have the knowledge or means to provide what is needed.
My point is, its worrying that people are going to zoo's and seeing these animals as "pets" not the wild animals that they actually are.
 
I'm fairly sure that most people can manage a nice viv and a heat mat, it's a lot easier than keeping a dog.
Anyway, back to the topic!
 
There's a considerable difference between keeping meerkats or monkeys as pets, and keeping bearded dragons.
 
Burmese Pythons, Green Iguana, Bearded Dragons, to me personally these would be classified as either 'zoo animals' or animals kept privately by enthusiasts, but I wouldn't really class them as pets.

I was expecting to read a thread about zoos keeping rabbits, rats or guinea pigs as exhibits to be honest or the 'children’s farm area' as some places call it.
 
It's kind of the same point, it was that the animals I used as examples are what started the discussion. However I don't think I've been in a pet shop for years that didn't have at least bearded dragons.
 
Fair enough comment, bearded dragons are much more common in pet shops now than they used to be, but saying that to the vast majority of the public zoo visiting population they would still class them as a zoo species rather than a pet species. I have a Mediterranean spur thigh tortoise, would you say that was a pet or something you would expect to find exhibited in a zoo? To me he is a pet, to someone who has never kept one it's a zoo animal. My friend used to keep tarantulas (until he got engaged!) I would not class them as pets but he would have done.

It's all about what is classed as a pet and to some people, its a zoo animal and to others its a pet.

I'm just off to feed my crash of rhino’s back in 5. :p
 
I heard similar complaints about keeping common aquarium fish, birds and rodents. Think angelfish, degus, small Australian parrots etc. Go to a large pet store and you see the same "collection" for free.

And, judging from exotic pet forums which pan many zoos, standards of small animal husbandry are often lower than good private keepers.
 
Also keep in mind that many 'pet' species were once wild animals. As for the animals mentioned, they are very specialist animals to look after! In a way zoos can point out what the animal is capable of growing to and behaving like, hopefully putting off someone who might give up or, worse, abandon the animal.
 
I think you dont understand the term "domestic", those animals you listed are not domestic & the real question should be if these animals should actually be kept as "pets". People can buy primates, meerkats, coatis, skunks and all manner of reptiles and amphibians etc as "pets" and all these can be found at zoo's, but they are species that are not domesticated and their needs can not be meet by your average joe in their little flat - thats why they get specialist care in zoo's or better yet, left in the wild.

Define domesticated, please. Why do you think those animals are not (domesticated) and why that should make a difference.
 
According to the Dictionary of Zoology*:

domestication - The selective breeding of species by humans in order to accomodate human needs. Domestication also requires considerable modification of natural ecosytems to ensure the survival of, and optimum production from, the domesticated species.

The reptiles listed above are not domesticated species. Domestication generally requires many, many generations of selective breeding for the traits that are required, and the domesticated species is often quite different from the original wild specimen.

:p

Hix

* Allaby, M., 1991, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Zoology. Oxford University Press: p.150
 
According to the Dictionary of Zoology*:

domestication - The selective breeding of species by humans in order to accomodate human needs. Domestication also requires considerable modification of natural ecosytems to ensure the survival of, and optimum production from, the domesticated species.

The reptiles listed above are not domesticated species. Domestication generally requires many, many generations of selective breeding for the traits that are required, and the domesticated species is often quite different from the original wild specimen.

:p

Hix

* Allaby, M., 1991, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Zoology. Oxford University Press: p.150

Albino pythons would just about fit the definition as would (the more common) unnatural-coloured corn snakes:D
 
According to the Dictionary of Zoology*:

domestication - The selective breeding of species by humans in order to accomodate human needs. Domestication also requires considerable modification of natural ecosytems to ensure the survival of, and optimum production from, the domesticated species.

The reptiles listed above are not domesticated species. Domestication generally requires many, many generations of selective breeding for the traits that are required, and the domesticated species is often quite different from the original wild specimen.

:p

Hix

* Allaby, M., 1991, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Zoology. Oxford University Press: p.150

Lol, sure like with foxes, right? :rolleyes:;)
 
I think alot of private keepers wouldn't class their exotics as pets as such but I have owned some incredibly tame exotics that I would call my pets.
There are some brilliant private keepers who specialise in different animals that are rarely seen in zoos in the uk. However there is always the minority that keep primates in parrot cages and this is the image most people think of when they think about exotic "pets".
After all some of the bet zoos started as private collections!
 
Ps. Talking of domestication... Does anybody think zoo meerkats look different to wild meerkats, larger in the body, a flatter head, darker face masks and darker in colour. almost as if it's a small step towards the domestic meerkat?
A good place to see a difference is at hammerton zoo UK as they have wild caught meerkats in an enclosure next to captivebred "domestic" meerkats.
Any thoughts?
 
Albino pythons would just about fit the definition as would (the more common) unnatural-coloured corn snakes:D

Designer morph snakes were not selectively bred for "human needs", more for "human wants". The quote was refering to selective breeding to produce cattle that have more meat on them, or produce more milk, or stronger horses, or better laying chickens (or even featherless chickens so you don't need to pluck them). As a result, the species is significantly different from the original species in the wild.

Albino pythons are bred for aesthetics, or money. Apart from colour, there is absolutely no physical difference between them and their wild counterparts.

:p

Hix
 
There's a pretty strong argument now that domestication doesn't have to involve active selection by humans. Eg dogs: there wasn't some early human decided it would be a good idea to confine wolves, test them for temperament and select the nicest ones to breed from. Instead what probably happened is that some wolves started exploiting garbage dumps and latrines as food sources. Those that had shorter flight distances (and therefore could tolerate humans being a bit closer) got scared off less often and so ate more and so were selected for. The food was plentiful and easy to get, but not great quality, so there was also selection towards smaller brains (since they are expensive to run, and dogs needed them less). Smaller heads and brains being one of the things that distinguish dogs from wolves. The result was 'village dogs' similar to the often-assumed-to-be 'strays' found around human settlements worldwide today living on garbage. Arguably you don't get active selection till a long way down the line. (For more read Coppinger and Coppinger 'Dogs: A new understanding of canine origin, behavior and evolution')

The domestic cat also probably just moved in, and their breeding has only been widely controlled very recently. However 'domestic' cats that are not socialized with humans during a crucial few weeks as kittens are feral, scared of humans, capable of inflicting quite severe damage on them, and nearly impossible to tame. Are they really domestic then?

I've heard it said as well that horses were in many ways 'pre-adapted' in ways that made them easy to domesticate.

You could say that about bearded dragons. I hear they make great pets (in fact there's a pet one living upstairs from me, which I've stroked when it's out riding on it's owners shoulder). You can get them, custom made viv set ups for them, pelleted food and live food from Pets at Home.

All in all I don't think you can say that there's a catagory of 'domestic animals' that were created by humans, and are in some way totally different to all 'none-domestic' animals. The reality is surely more complex than that?

It is an interesting question. To be honest I have thought that if I was starting up a zoo I might include some 'pets' to start. Pets at Home New Malden usually has quite a range including dart frogs, horned frogs, water dragons and marine fish (including 4 kinds of scorpion fish on one visit). I think stuff like that can make great exhibits depending on how they are exhibited.

Interesting about the meercats: it would indeed be intersting if zoo animals started to change with the change in their enviroment. Some (like Copinger and Copinger *G*) would probably argue it would be inevitable.
 
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