Phase out species in United States

[birdsandbats]

They don't have them anymore for the 2018 season.

WHAT!!!

Where did you hear this? The zoo actually owned their baboon. What happened to it?

Just checked the Oshkosh Zoological Society website, it still has a picture of an Olive Baboon, but it does not list it. If it is gone, do you know where it went?

 

[Coelacanth18]

Isn't the species of tiger that are in zoos the Malayan indo Chinese amur and Bengal and what I'm sure is a cross breed of Siberian

In the US, the three pure subspecies that are kept are Malayan, Sumatran, and Amur (which is the same as Siberian). Others are hybrid descendants of multiple subspecies.

as for leopards I know amur is high on the list but what about snow leopards or are they on a phase out.

Amur leopards and snow leopards are both managed in US zoos, neither are being phased out.

I' suprised that zoos like lincoln park and brookfield are just sticking to the black rhino conservation shouldn' the Indian, and other rarer rhino species be taken into account.

Indian and black rhinos are both managed and widely kept in US zoos. As for the rarer species, one has a wild population of 60, while the other was kept and bred in captivity with ultimately little success.

As far as apes go though I'm sure harder to take care of what about eastern gorillas and possibly mountain though I am sure that is to small of a population.

US zoos keep and manage western lowland gorillas. There are no plans to start captive programs for other species or subspecies, they are hoping to rely on in situ conservation efforts.

 

[TheEthiopianWolf03]

Does anyone know whats going on with bears in the US? It seems like a good handful of species are being phased out.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Does anyone know whats going on with bears in the US? It seems like a good handful of species are being phased out.

Just Sun Bear and Asiatic Black Bear are phase-outs due to limited gene pools and lack of breeding success. Polar Bear, Andean Bear, and Sloth Bear are all AZA program animals, though AZA zoos have recently started cross-breeding the two Sloth Bear subspecies.. Brown Bear and American Black Bear are not phase-out or program animals, zoos simply take in rescued individuals. Not sure on the exact situation with Giant Panda, but they certainly aren't on a phase-out list.

~Thylo

 

[Echobeast]

Isn't the species of tiger that are in zoos the Malayan indo Chinese amur and Bengal and what I'm sure is a cross breed of Siberian

In AZA zoos, only Amur (formerly known as Siberian), Malayan and Sumatran tigers are represented.

as for leopards I know amur is high on the list but what about snow leopards or are they on a phase out.

Snow leopards and Amur leopards are separate species have separate SSPs (species survival plans) so they are not a phase out. Both are in relatively healthy numbers in zoos. The AZA has made a commitment to the Amur subspecies due to the low numbers of other subspecies in zoos and the limited amount of facilities to hold them in.

I' suprised that zoos like lincoln park and brookfield are just sticking to the black rhino conservation shouldn' the Indian, and other rarer rhino species be taken into account.

Black rhinos are listed as critically endangered and are the most endangered species of rhino held in zoos. Given the limited amount of facilities that can hold rhinos, each zoo needs to commit to usually one, maybe two of the three species currently held in AZA zoos; southern white, black, and greater one-horned (AKA Indian).

As far as apes go though I'm sure harder to take care of what about eastern gorillas and possibly mountain though I am sure that is to small of a population.

There are no Eastern gorillas (including mountain) in America. In Europe, there is only one female Eastern lowland gorilla in captivity at the Antwerp Zoo.

In general, TAGs advise zoos to keep animals that other zoos are committed to so that a viable breeding population can be kept. When the number of individuals gets too low or only one or two facilities keeps that animal, maintaining a viable breeding population becomes impossible and they become a “phase out” species.

Not sure on the exact situation with Giant Panda, but they certainly aren't on a phase-out list.

I’m pretty sure their breeding is managed by the Chinese government so the AZA has no need for a TAG so they are neither a phase in or phase out.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

When the number of individuals gets too low or only one or two facilities keeps that animal, maintaining a viable breeding population becomes impossible and they become a “phase out” species.

I wouldn't say it becomes impossible when numbers drop low or are down to only one or two collections, there are plenty of examples proving otherwise. To be honest I've never fully accepted the "genetic diversity" excuse for a lot of phase-out species when we has SSP programs for species whose entire populations are founded from literally 3-4 individuals. Obviously different species are affected differently by inbreeding, but still.

~Thylo

 

[Buldeo]

US zoos keep and manage western lowland gorillas. There are no plans to start captive programs for other species or subspecies, they are hoping to rely on in situ conservation efforts.

You know what they say about hope...

I always felt they should have a backstop population of all four subspecies spread throughout the states and Western European zoos. Don't need a lot, but seems like a good idea with the way things are going.

I wouldn't say it becomes impossible when numbers drop low or are down to only one or two collections, there are plenty of examples proving otherwise. To be honest I've never fully accepted the "genetic diversity" excuse for a lot of phase-out species when we has SSP programs for species whose entire populations are founded from literally 3-4 individuals. Obviously different species are affected differently by inbreeding, but still.

~Thylo

I largely agree. Though, and specifically related to gorillas, I was wondering if there's a point where wild caught/rescues are necessary to keep that genetic diversity at appropriate levels.

 

[Cyclone]

You know what they say about hope...

I always felt they should have a backstop population of all four subspecies spread throughout the states and Western European zoos. Don't need a lot, but seems like a good idea with the way things are going.




I largely agree. Though, and specifically related to gorillas, I was wondering if there's a point where wild caught/rescues are necessary to keep that genetic diversity at appropriate levels.

But isn' it the cross river gorilla and the mountain probably the most critical for saving

 

[elefante]

But isn' it the cross river gorilla and the mountain probably the most critical for saving

I've always wondered why mountain gorillas haven't been kept in zoos. Maybe they didn't thrive. Many were captured by poachers as babies (and maybe still are). It seems strange none survived to maintain a population in captivity.

 

[Zorro]

I've always wondered why mountain gorillas haven't been kept in zoos. Maybe they didn't thrive. Many were captured by poachers as babies (and maybe still are). It seems strange none survived to maintain a population in captivity.

I believe there were at least one pair kept in a European zoo in the 70s it may have been Rotterdam or Antwerp zoo

 

[FBBird]

I believe there were at least one pair kept in a European zoo in the 70s it may have been Rotterdam or Antwerp zoo

The most recent were two females at Cologne in the 70s/80s. They lived only a few years. Enough Western Lowland Gorillas were imported to get over the early husbandry issues and establish a population. There are three reasons NOT to attempt a captive population of the other taxa:
1/ It is difficult, almost impossible to capture adult Gorillas. Catching young ones usually involves killing the rest of the family. Aside from the welfare implications, populations cannot support that level of loss.
2/ There would inevitably be mortality while successful husbandry protocols were established, possibly such that the whole project failed.
3/ There is barely enough room in zoos to support a healthy breeding population of Western Lowlands.
So, let's look after Western Lowland Gorillas in the wild and in captivity, and promote the survival of the other forms in the wild

 

[Lycaon]

Aren't lion-tailed macaques being phased out of the AZA?

 

[birdsandbats]

Aren't lion-tailed macaques being phased out of the AZA?

Yes. All macaques other than Japanese are on phase-out.

 

[Lycaon]

In answer to the questions about other TAG groups. I know the must exist. The problem I've found with the AZA's website is that only a fraction of the resources they must produce have been uploaded. I've now worked through the TAGs which is cool. And for Toronto Zoo specifically as its my hometown zoo, I've extensively plowed through the SSPs and Studbooks looking for Toronto info (I was after info on each individual animal that had been at the zoo if they had a name like Charles but I also looked at our nameless friends we used to house to see what the zoo once was like). But my point is lots of things are missing. Theres a lion studbook but it only lists white lions, no africans. And theres no SSP for them. I couldnt find out anything about ostriches. I know the documents exist just not on the web yet. So unless you want more info on the TAGs I've provided I cant be of anymore help for phasing in or out, unfortunately. Maybe more will pop up later after the big AZA meeting in september.

Heres a list of all the TAG groups that exist according to the AZA's website.

Amphibian
Anseriformes
Antelope and Giraffe
Ape
Aquatic Invertebrate
Bat
Bear
Bison, Buffalo and Cattle
Canid and Hyaenid
Caprid
Charadriiformes
Chelonian
Ciconiiformes/Phoenicopteriformes
Columbiformes
Coraciiformes
Crocodilian
Deer (Cervid/Tragulid)
Elephant
Equid
Felid
Freshwater Fishes
Galliformes
Gruiformes
Lizard
Marine Fishes
Marine Mammal
Marsupial and Monotreme
New World Primate
Old World Monkey
PACCT (Passerines)
Pangolin, Aardvark and Xenarthra
Parrot
Pelecaniformes
Penguin
Piciformes
Prosimian
Raptor
Ratite/Tinamiformes
Rhinoceros
Rodent, Insectivore and Lagomorph
Small Carnivore
Snake
Tapir
Terrestrial Invertebrate
Turaco/Cuckoo
Wild Pig, Peccary and Hippo

WHoops Im a dope. I can get the others... I didnt notice there was two pages of TAGs good thing i caught that.

How did you find this? This is impressive.

Or am I just asking a question that's already answered in the thread ?

 

[IndianRhino]

How did you find this? This is impressive.

Or am I just asking a question that's already answered in the thread ?

Your question is already answered in the post you quoted...

"Heres a list of all the TAG groups that exist according to the AZA's website."

If you simply search "AZA Tags" in google, this page will come up with everything that was listed (plus any changes that have been made since TZFan posted that).

Also, for future reference, it's best not to bumb threads if you don't have anything valuable to add to the conversation as it's been nearly 2 years since the last post was made in this thread.

 

[Lycaon]

Your question is already answered in the post you quoted...

"Heres a list of all the TAG groups that exist according to the AZA's website."

If you simply search "AZA Tags" in google, this page will come up with everything that was listed (plus any changes that have been made since TZFan posted that).

Also, for future reference, it's best not to bumb threads if you don't have anything valuable to add to the conversation as it's been nearly 2 years since the last post was made in this thread.

I really need to stop rushing through this stuff.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Yes. All macaques other than Japanese are on phase-out.

Lion-Tailed has been a back and forth for years now. I think it's finally leaning on giving up on them but zoos have had them in their collection plans. DAK imported some new breeding animals from Europe a few years ago, but obviously then never bred them.

~Thylo

 

[Aardwolf]

Lion-Tailed has been a back and forth for years now. I think it's finally leaning on giving up on them but zoos have had them in their collection plans. DAK imported some new breeding animals from Europe a few years ago, but obviously then never bred them.

~Thylo

I don't believe this is the case with LTM, but there are some species in which an American zoo or two decide to participate in the European studbook as a satellite facility. Gelada is managed in that way, with Bronx (and now San Diego) sorting of being auxiliary members of the EEP

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I don't believe this is the case with LTM, but there are some species in which an American zoo or two decide to participate in the European studbook as a satellite facility. Gelada is managed in that way, with Bronx (and now San Diego) sorting of being auxiliary members of the EEP

Indeed this is the case (it is with Bronx's Pink Pigeon program as well) sometimes, though I don't think that's what was happening with the macaques. I've never heard of any interaction between the US zoos that have kept the macaque and the EEP apart from the DAK importing new animals.

~Thylo

 

[Aardwolf]

Indeed this is the case (it is with Bronx's Pink Pigeon program as well) sometimes, though I don't think that's what was happening with the macaques. I've never heard of any interaction between the US zoos that have kept the macaque and the EEP apart from the DAK importing new animals.

~Thylo

Which is a pity, really. Lion-tailed macaque was one of the earliest Species Survival Programs and was, for many years, an extremely successful one, to the point where reintros were being contemplated in India. Then came the Herpes...