Phasing out the Coatis from EU?

Haliaeetus

Haliaeetus

Well-Known Member
Recently some messages suggested a phasing out process of the Coatis in the EU. (most of them published by British [so non-EU...] zoochatters)
The advanced reason is linked with the invasive potential of the species.
But I haven't the impression that these animals become really rare in EU countries, according to Zootierliste and to my personal experience. For example 95 zoos display Red Coatis in Germany and more from 30 in France. Even in the island of Martinique (where the accidental introduction of them should be a greater concern than everywhere in continental Europe, given to the tropical climate), the local zoo has Coatis.
The White-nosed Coati remains less common, but the Red is really frequent.
Maybe the breeding of them is discouraged, but I haven't got arguments about that.
Finally the only understandable reason to reduce the number of Coatis would be the low conservation concern of the 2 species displayed in our zoos, and an higher interest for more threatened species of small carnivores.

Do you share the same impression? Do you think that the Coatis are as (if not more) numerous as earlier, or not?

Thanks.
 
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Haliaeetus said:
Recently some messages suggested a phasing out process of the Coatis in the EU. (most of them published by British [so non-EU...] zoochatters)
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It's worth bearing in mind the invasive species regulations came into force PRIOR to Brexit - so contrary to your insinuations we *do* know what we are talking about :p the legislation applies solely to South American Coati incidentally. In fact, one of the reasons for the fresh imports of White-nosed Coati from Havana Zoo to Germany in 2014 (which are the source for most of the individuals present in Europe now) was the upcoming legislation!

Haliaeetus said:
But I haven't the impression that these animals become really rare in EU countries, according to Zootierliste and to my personal experience. For example 95 zoos display Red Coatis in Germany and more from 30 in France.
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As for this point (and similarly, the continued presence of Northern Raccoon in European collections despite this species also now falling under the invasive legislation) the key issue is the fact that many procyonid species, including the South American Coati, have captive lifespans upwards of 20 years old.... in other words, age-related attrition hasn't had much impact yet.
 
Many red coati collections are collapsing now and in the next few years, many zoos only have a few remaining old animals. They seem to be an invasive species on Mallorca, can theoretically live in warmer European areas and you will indeed find a history of escapes of zoo animals. White-nosed coatis will most likely be successors in many zoos - they haven't been kept as often so far and thus are not listed (yet).

Northern raccoons are a huge problem. Alone in Germany about 200.000 of them are shot each year and this is still not enough to reduce the number of animals. Zoos here can take them out of the nature but they need to castrate them and may not send them to a different institution.
 
If anything, however, I think it would be good for existing laws regarding invasive species in this country to be revised to some extent -
Much of the restriction regarding species which are listed as 'invasive' [or entire animal groups which have been listed as such; all 'terrapins' are systematically listed] is aimed towards display and holding. The laws here are rather solid on such facilities as zoos and aquariums, which rarely encounter animal escapes, and are rarely the sole cause of invasive species being established, but laws for fur-farms, which have been known to be perhaps the main cause of invasive establishment are apparently slept on. Whilst zoos should not be completely free from laws regarding species listed as invasive, I believe that most pressure and restriction should be directed towards fur farms and such facilities.
 
dillotest0 said:
If anything, however, I think it would be good for existing laws regarding invasive species in this country to be revised to some extent -
Much of the restriction regarding species which are listed as 'invasive' [or entire animal groups which have been listed as such; all 'terrapins' are systematically listed] is aimed towards display and holding. The laws here are rather solid on such facilities as zoos and aquariums, which rarely encounter animal escapes, and are rarely the sole cause of invasive species being established, but laws for fur-farms, which have been known to be perhaps the main cause of invasive establishment are apparently slept on. Whilst zoos should not be completely free from laws regarding species listed as invasive, I believe that most pressure and restriction should be directed towards fur farms and such facilities.
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Pongo said:
Many red coati collections are collapsing now and in the next few years, many zoos only have a few remaining old animals. They seem to be an invasive species on Mallorca, can theoretically live in warmer European areas and you will indeed find a history of escapes of zoo animals. White-nosed coatis will most likely be successors in many zoos - they haven't been kept as often so far and thus are not listed (yet).

Northern raccoons are a huge problem. Alone in Germany about 200.000 of them are shot each year and this is still not enough to reduce the number of animals. Zoos here can take them out of the nature but they need to castrate them and may not send them to a different institution.
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The population of Coatis on Mallorca is only self-sustaining because of feeding by tourists, and the UK population appears to have died out. It is now being argued, that as the species does not fall into the actual definition of an invasive species, its including on the lists in the first place was illegal, and I gather legal challenges are in process taking this position. Simply being able to theoretically live in warmer areas of Europe is not sufficient to list a species, as this simple definition would cover many, many thousands of taxa. It is therefore quite possible that the Ring-tailed Coat will disappear from zoos in the short-term (as it is already doing), only to reappear later, sourced either from new imports or from the private sector where stocks are presumably being maintained without control.
The comparison with Northern Raccoons is not actually comparable in any way.
 
Zoo2022 said:
The population of Coatis on Mallorca is only self-sustaining because of feeding by tourists, and the UK population appears to have died out. It is now being argued, that as the species does not fall into the actual definition of an invasive species, its including on the lists in the first place was illegal, and I gather legal challenges are in process taking this position. Simply being able to theoretically live in warmer areas of Europe is not sufficient to list a species, as this simple definition would cover many, many thousands of taxa. It is therefore quite possible that the Ring-tailed Coat will disappear from zoos in the short-term (as it is already doing), only to reappear later, sourced either from new imports or from the private sector where stocks are presumably being maintained without control.
The comparison with Northern Raccoons is not actually comparable in any way.
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What should this mean for the free living nandu in Germany? And so, for the nandu in European zoos?
 
john said:
What should this mean for the free living nandu in Germany? And so, for the nandu in European zoos?
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Nothing - nandu are not classified to be invasive species by the EU directive.
 
john said:
What should this mean for the free living nandu in Germany? And so, for the nandu in European zoos?
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The Nandus are flightless and have limited possibilities to escape and spread, so it's easily understandable that they aren't listed among the invasive species of Europe.
 
Haliaeetus said:
The Nandus are flightless and have limited possibilities to escape and spread, so it's easily understandable that they aren't listed among the invasive species of Europe.
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Nandu do live in free in the wild in parts of Europe, without care of humans. They can spread.
 
john said:
Nandu do live in free in the wild in parts of Europe, without care of humans. They can spread.
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In the absence of large suitable habitat in most of the continent, their expansion would be limited to small niches.
In addition, their cull would be quite unpopular.
 
john said:
Nandu do live in free in the wild in parts of Europe, without care of humans. They can spread.
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I am sorry if what I wrote was not clear.
To repeat, it is not a matter of if they can spread, as this definition would included thousands of species - but it must be proved that the introduced population is self-sustaining without support from man.
 
Plus you always need one country (or the EU itself) to request that a species is put on the invasive list. As long as all countries are fine with this species nothing will happen such as in the case of the nandu. In case that Germany decides that there are too many and they can't control them anymore there is a huge chance that they will also end up on this list.
 
Pongo said:
Plus you always need one country (or the EU itself) to request that a species is put on the invasive list. As long as all countries are fine with this species nothing will happen such as in the case of the nandu. In case that Germany decides that there are too many and they can't control them anymore there is a huge chance that they will also end up on this list.
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Thanks for your replies. These words do make sense!!
 
South American Coatis (Nasua nasua) are part of the new South American Aviary in Beauval, whose opening is scheduled for April 2023. They will be displaced from their former enclosure to a brand new exhibit, along with some other species (American Flamingos, Giant Anteaters, Spider Monkeys...).
Consequently, I can assume that Beauval doesn't plan to phase out the species in the short term.
It's unclear if it plans to breed again this species (it has happened only once, in 2016 ; and it isn't impossible that the current group is neutered or under contraceptives).
 
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