Philadelphia Zoo Philadelphia Zoo News 2020

nczoofan said:
Several years ago the zoo solicited bids for the redevelopment of the approximately 10 acre south end of the site. This was to include new or renovated exhibits for giraffe, zebra, rhino, hippo, cheetah, and flamingo among other species. The major focus though was on giraffes. I am remembering these details off the top of my head but the exhibit capacity was to be at least 8-10 giraffe, with a large barn accessible to guests. Their has been no public news on this and I imagine covid will push it back, yet I have no reason to doubt they have changed priorities.

Regarding elephants though they were not mentioned in this bid, and I doubt they would be able to fit them in the redeveloped area without phasing out major species. I also think Antwerp is not something any zoos elephant program should use as a model. A quarter acre outdoor yard and a few tiny dark stalls in a 175 year old building is not something that even would meet AZA standards.
Click to expand...
I'm saying Antwerp in terms of holding bulls on a temporary basis until they are old enough to breed, not in terms of the utilization of the site (175 year old stalls and a quarter-acre *liberal estimate tbh* yard). That said, if done creatively and with the Large Mammal Trails mentioned earlier, elephants can be brought back to the zoo in a triumphant manner.
 
There's been no indication that philly even wants elephants back though, has there?
 
TinoPup said:
There's been no indication that philly even wants elephants back though, has there?
Click to expand...
I've heard from board members and keeper-staff that they have every intention of bringing elephants back, it's mostly due to lack of funds that they aren't doing so at this time (that and also other priorities around the zoo). Ideally I would love to see elephants and polar bears back at the zoo (maybe even douc langurs - forget panda diplomacy, we need douc langur diplomacy :p).
 
nczoofan said:
Several years ago the zoo solicited bids for the redevelopment of the approximately 10 acre south end of the site. This was to include new or renovated exhibits for giraffe, zebra, rhino, hippo, cheetah, and flamingo among other species. The major focus though was on giraffes. I am remembering these details off the top of my head but the exhibit capacity was to be at least 8-10 giraffe, with a large barn accessible to guests. Their has been no public news on this and I imagine covid will push it back, yet I have no reason to doubt they have changed priorities.

Regarding elephants though they were not mentioned in this bid, and I doubt they would be able to fit them in the redeveloped area without phasing out major species. I also think Antwerp is not something any zoos elephant program should use as a model. A quarter acre outdoor yard and a few tiny dark stalls in a 175 year old building is not something that even would meet AZA standards.
Click to expand...
@nczoofan, I do not think that large spaces in itself is a valid criterium for successful breeding. I know too many large open range zoos that to this day have not bred elephants while maintaining a breeding herd ... I rather think it is the quality of the space provided to the elephants.

Further, Zoo Antwerpen is restricted in space proper and thus they have gone out of their way to provide an elephant house using the old structures available and encompassing those in a new elephant habitat. It certainly works well for the bull bachelor facility they have. Most bulls leave the property at between 8-11 years old. I believe they only have a space restriction for up to 3-4 individuals (I think in reality it is 3).

Finally, if you do not celebrate history of a place, you are taking away your own. I quite love the atmosphere at the zoo and what it might be lacking in space is more than recouped in quality of animal exhibits. BTW: they have been reducing stocks over the last decade, while ensuring a complete and diverse collection which is certainly not lacking on birds, herps and fish. Their latest project is the Carnivore terraces (leopard, jaguar - former - and tiger).
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
@nczoofan, I do not think that large spaces in itself is a valid criterium for successful breeding. I know too many large open range zoos that to this day have not bred elephants while maintaining a breeding herd ... I rather think it is the quality of the space provided to the elephants.

Further, Zoo Antwerpen is restricted in space proper and thus they have gone out of their way to provide an elephant house using the old structures available and encompassing those in a new elephant habitat. It certainly works well for the bull bachelor facility they have. Most bulls leave the property at between 8-11 years old. I believe they only have a space restriction for up to 3-4 individuals (I think in reality it is 3).

Finally, if you do not celebrate history of a place, you are taking away your own. I quite love the atmosphere at the zoo and what it might be lacking in space is more than recouped in quality of animal exhibits. BTW: they have been reducing stocks over the last decade, while ensuring a complete and diverse collection which is certainly not lacking on birds, herps and fish. Their latest project is the Carnivore terraces (leopard, jaguar - former - and tiger).
Click to expand...

I did not mean that to attack the zoo. From what I have seen I rather like it. Now I disagree with them still keeping elephants though. I do think that space for the sake of space is a flawed assumption for elephants, yet their is a minimum area of space that should be needed to keep them. In my mind this is about an acre (Audubon Zoo for example), although more is likely needed for the various yards needed to keep a breeding herd. Indoor space is also important and thats truly where the zoo fails. I have seen plenty of other people on this site suggest the same thing and insinuate that its time of holding elephants is likely drawing down.
 
@nczoofan, I did not suggest you were attacking anything. Whereas, most of the time I agree with you ..., given all the space limitations in Europe, the uneagerness of quite a few collections to set up elderly non reproductive cow or bachelor bull facilities is flying in the face of space demands. Personally, space allocation criteria seem a bit arbitrary to me. I was merely suggesting that I am increasingly none too confident over space demands from species management keepers and bureaucracy cum municipal / Govt. authorities how much space should be allocated to elephants or any other animal group. Often these criteria - when administration authorities are involved - seem rather arbitrary to me.

Second, the ever trend bigger, bigger, bigger and biggest is not helping zoos manage all species in need of ex situ conservation breeding. Elephants are an overstated lot in that respect and public fluffy favourites. When new habitats are designed it is often at the expense of species in more dire need of ex situ conservation space. And end of the day: If you would really like to have a functioning elephant habitat, you are hunting a mirage. These are so big that we would have to flatten built up areas f.i. in the space between Amsterdam and Utrecht.

Also, I suggested many big elephant exhibits across the globe fail at accommodating a functioning and successfully breeding elephant herd (quite a few safari parks can be cited as an example how this "space" element is not working). There are far more important factors in making elephant exhibits work. As such, Antwerpen Zoo is making good use of available space and performing a rather undesired / undesirable role most zoos in the program likely want to forego.
 
Honestly, I would be fine if they didn't bring back elephants as long as they expand the African Plains. It's a long walk to get from Big Cat Falls to the Cheetah area and the only thing in between is Wings of Asia and a beer garden. They could do so much with that wasted space.

Also, how long do you all think it will be until they get elephants again and if they do, do you think that they will get both species like they had before, or only one?
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
As such, Antwerpen Zoo is making good use of available space and performing a rather undesired / undesirable role most zoos in the program likely want to forego.
Click to expand...

I would like to underpin this statement. Europe has way too few spaces for bulls, both young and old. EEP is already reacting and orders facilities to prolong inter-birth intervals in Asian elephants and so decrease the number of calves born in coming years. Otherwise we would run out of capacity.

IF only some US zoo would like to build a holding facility for a bachelor herd and import from Europe, it could get as many young bulls as they wish, also some grown bulls could retire there. Zoos of origin might even offer to share transport costs. It would help immensely.
 
nczoofan said:
Several years ago the zoo solicited bids for the redevelopment of the approximately 10 acre south end of the site. This was to include new or renovated exhibits for giraffe, zebra, rhino, hippo, cheetah, and flamingo among other species. The major focus though was on giraffes. I am remembering these details off the top of my head but the exhibit capacity was to be at least 8-10 giraffe, with a large barn accessible to guests. Their has been no public news on this and I imagine covid will push it back, yet I have no reason to doubt they have changed priorities.
Click to expand...
This was, indeed, the original plan. The last I heard, which was at the beginning of this year, right before the pandemic took hold, those plans had been pretty drastically scaled back. A state-of-the-art giraffe complex for a large breeding herd is still top priority; however, due to space and funding, there likely will not much else beyond some additional smaller hoofstock species.
 
Kudu21 said:
This was, indeed, the original plan. The last I heard, which was at the beginning of this year, right before the pandemic took hold, those plans had been pretty drastically scaled back. A state-of-the-art giraffe complex for a large breeding herd is still top priority; however, due to space and funding, there likely will not much else beyond some additional smaller hoofstock species.
Click to expand...
Do you happen to know what smaller hoofstock species by any chance?
 
Kudu21 said:
This was, indeed, the original plan. The last I heard, which was at the beginning of this year, right before the pandemic took hold, those plans had been pretty drastically scaled back. A state-of-the-art giraffe complex for a large breeding herd is still top priority; however, due to space and funding, there likely will not much else beyond some additional smaller hoofstock species.
Click to expand...

I found reference online to the zoo finalizing its master plan soon, focused on the south end of the zoo and bird valley. The original plan was not to be done at once, so giraffes going first would make sense. Although I would imagine eventually other elements of the early plan will come to fruition as the zoo acknowledged exhibits for rhino, hippo, and flamingo need improvement.
 
nczoofan said:
I found reference online to the zoo finalizing its master plan soon, focused on the south end of the zoo and bird valley. The original plan was not to be done at once, so giraffes going first would make sense. Although I would imagine eventually other elements of the early plan will come to fruition as the zoo acknowledged exhibits for rhino, hippo, and flamingo need improvement.
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that the zoo has realized that they cannot provide adequate accommodations for all of these species and have decided to provide “world-class” accommodations for one of them— giraffe. Rhinos specifically were discussed as not being included due to the additional barn and separation space. I imagine the same would be true for hippos. Perhaps new flamingo and cheetah exhibits might be able to come online in the future, but I wouldn’t hold my breath/come to expect rhinos and hippos staying in the zoo’s collection.
 
Kudu21 said:
It is my understanding that the zoo has realized that they cannot provide adequate accommodations for all of these species and have decided to provide “world-class” accommodations for one of them— giraffe. Rhinos specifically were discussed as not being included due to the additional barn and separation space. I imagine the same would be true for hippos. Perhaps new flamingo and cheetah exhibits might be able to come online in the future, but I wouldn’t hold my breath/come to expect rhinos and hippos staying in the zoo’s collection.
Click to expand...
That's disappointing, but it makes sense. I don't want Tony to have to leave. :(
 
Per this news article, The Philadelphia Zoo was awarded $1 million to convert Bird Lake into a large outdoor habitat for giraffes, ostriches, and Ankole cattle.

I have mixed feelings about this. Bird lake has been there since the beginning and I really don't want to see it go. I'm also tired of seeing Ankole, an American breed of a domestic animal, in African savannahs, when there are so many other ungulate options.
 
TinoPup said:
Per this news article, The Philadelphia Zoo was awarded $1 million to convert Bird Lake into a large outdoor habitat for giraffes, ostriches, and Ankole cattle.

I have mixed feelings about this. Bird lake has been there since the beginning and I really don't want to see it go. I'm also tired of seeing Ankole, an American breed of a domestic animal, in African savannahs, when there are so many other ungulate options.
Click to expand...
I never got to ride the swan boats:(
 
TinoPup said:
Per this news article, The Philadelphia Zoo was awarded $1 million to convert Bird Lake into a large outdoor habitat for giraffes, ostriches, and Ankole cattle.

I have mixed feelings about this. Bird lake has been there since the beginning and I really don't want to see it go. I'm also tired of seeing Ankole, an American breed of a domestic animal, in African savannahs, when there are so many other ungulate options.
Click to expand...
I would like to see more corroborating sources and am interested to see how this plays out, but so far... Ankole cattle. Whoopee.
 
TinoPup said:
Per this news article, The Philadelphia Zoo was awarded $1 million to convert Bird Lake into a large outdoor habitat for giraffes, ostriches, and Ankole cattle.

I have mixed feelings about this. Bird lake has been there since the beginning and I really don't want to see it go. I'm also tired of seeing Ankole, an American breed of a domestic animal, in African savannahs, when there are so many other ungulate options.
Click to expand...
I'm shocked . . . I never thought they would do that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top