Philadelphia Zoo Philadephia Zoo News 2018

jayjds2 said:
After quite a bit of time spent at the zoo today, I have seen and can confirm the following new species:

Iguana Cove giant tortoise (C. vicina) in Bird Alley, the next exhibit up from the flamingos. There were also Andean geese in a different exhibit, but I’m not sure if these were new.
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These new Galapagos giant tortoise are C. microphyes (sometimes they lump these with C. vicina in the nomenclature, but both clearly show up quite different haplotypes). These are offspring of the Gladys Porter Zoo, Brownsville, TX breeding group.

They also have some adult much older individuals from C. (nigrita) porteri as a potential breeding group. They should again be back up to 3 (1.2) individuals by now.

If you could check all of this up, that would be nice.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
These new Galapagos giant tortoise are C. microphyes (sometimes they lump these with C. vicina in the nomenclature, but both clearly show up quite different haplotypes). These are offspring of the Gladys Porter Zoo, Brownsville, TX breeding group.

They also have some adult much older individuals from C. (nigrita) porteri as a potential breeding group. They should again be back up to 3 (1.2) individuals by now.

If you could check all of this up, that would be nice.
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Ah, it’s the zoo’s listing error then, and the signage was no better at the zoo with just generic “G. nigrita” signs... I’m not sure when I’ll be back to visit but I’ll see if I can find a keeper to clarify. I was not aware of there being a male porteri, just two adult females (which I saw). I have tried to contact the zoo before but with no success.
 
jayjds2 said:
Ah, it’s the zoo’s listing error then, and the signage was no better at the zoo with just generic “G. nigrita” signs... I’m not sure when I’ll be back to visit but I’ll see if I can find a keeper to clarify. I was not aware of there being a male porteri, just two adult females (which I saw). I have tried to contact the zoo before but with no success.
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Thanks if and when you do get to go and ask them.

Just let it be known that the nomenclature is not yet set in stone and that what I wrote is alas not yet the mainstream accepted taxonomic view yet. Even though the Galapagos Conservancy and Darwin station staff recognise clearly 14 / 15 species in the tortoises from the islands (as all have haplotypes specific to locations on the Island, even for instance in C. vicina from Southern Isabela these can be distinguished from 2-3 different sites (all with their own specific haplotype for that particular location).

C. nigrita (G. .. I assume you wanted to write C. as in genus Chelonoidis) is again not C. porteri. But referred to another species / race. I do have to check that one though. So do not hold me to it.

LINK: C. porteri - West Santa Cruz tortoise (the adult individuals of Philly Zoo are this species)
Chelonoidis porteri (Indefatigable Island Giant Tortoise, Western Santa Cruz Giant Tortoise)

Even the IUCN Red List does not follow the current and accepted Galapagos Conservancy / Darwin station staff findings ... unfortunately. It is in my view best to maintain the conservative line that C. microphyes, C. guenther, C. vandenburghi et all remain valid species next to C. vicina.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
C. nigrita (G. .. I assume you wanted to write C. as in genus Chelonoidis) is again not C. porteri. But referred to another species / race. I do have to check that one though. So do not hold me to it.
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I did intend the G, as in Geochelone nigra, which is what most American zoos sign their tortoises as, unfortunately. My mistake for writing nigrita rather than niger. I agree with your line of thinking, that each of those tortoises should remain a valid species.
 
jayjds2 said:
I did intend the G, as in Geochelone nigra, which is what most American zoos sign their tortoises as, unfortunately. My mistake for writing nigrita rather than niger. I agree with your line of thinking, that each of those tortoises should remain a valid species.
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This perhaps getting a little far ahead, but C. niger is actually the Floreana species that will be resurrected from tortoises off Volcan Wolf, Isabela with percentage of Floreana genes and ancestry. This is due to the large number of tortoises from neighboring islands dumped by whalers there for having an overload of tortoises aboard.
 
TinoPup said:
it seems they were doing more than "just selling water"
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Maybe. I'm not actively trying to cast doubt on the zoo's statements, but without evidence do we really know that the claims about this group's behaviors are true? The only evidence we have of anything is this video, which doesn't appear to convey the whole situation but certainly doesn't look good on the PPD's part.

In any case, the fact that selling water on the street is illegal and worthy of police intervention is ridiculous at best and racially charged at worst.
 
Do we know they aren't, though? As I said, even if the zoo's claims are true the police were way out of line, but they deserve the blame, not the zoo. I've seen people selling stuff near there before with no issues.

I assume it's something you need a permit for, like selling anything else, like kids with lemonade stands. So that there's some sort of way to verify who you are and locate the vendor if there's something wrong with the product, so that there aren't people selling water every couple of feet.
 
TinoPup said:
Do we know they aren't, though? As I said, even if the zoo's claims are true the police were way out of line, but they deserve the blame, not the zoo. I've seen people selling stuff near there before with no issues.
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No, we don't. That was my point: we don't know whether those statements are true or not. One would hope that people could just take for granted that they are, but I've seen and read about enough of these situations that I'm naturally skeptical. I just don't think we should make assumptions when we don't really know all of the details.

As for whether the zoo or the police deserve blame, a security guard employed by the zoo is the one who flagged police down to handle the situation. How the situation was handled from there is on the PPD. We could debate whether it was necessary to flag the police down or whether any of them deserve any blame, but again, that would involve making assumptions based on limited information.

TinoPup said:
I assume it's something you need a permit for, like selling anything else, like kids with lemonade stands. So that there's some sort of way to verify who you are and locate the vendor if there's something wrong with the product, so that there aren't people selling water every couple of feet.
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You're right, legally they are required to have a permit. I disagree with that law, partially because I think consumers buying water from street vendors should take responsibility for the consequences, but primarily because of the enforcement. It irks me that many police officers find it necessary to shut vendors down or evict them from certain areas, especially because the bulk of them are poor and racial/ethnic minorities, for whom police harassment and brutality is already an issue.
 
Yi Qi said:
Apparently on Thursday a security officer at the zoo reported a black man outside of the zoo just for selling water in its boundaries:

Video Shows Cop Body-Slamming, Arresting Black Teen for Selling Water Outside Philadelphia Zoo
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I remember when we left going over the bridge near the north entrance there were a couple of guys trying to sell newspapers and waters to people in their cars. They were walking around in the road. They were a hazard to say the least, the Police have every right to stop them and keep everyone safe from nonsense like that, weather they are black or not.
 
CuseZoofan said:
I remember when we left going over the bridge near the north entrance there were a couple of guys trying to sell newspapers and waters to people in their cars. They were walking around in the road. They were a hazard to say the least, the Police have every right to stop them and keep everyone safe from nonsense like that, weather they are black or not.
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The Mantua neighborhood south of the zoo is one of the poorer in Philadelphia. Just some guys trying to earn a few bucks from the much more middle-class zoo visitors.
 
I am not sure why the zoo has not posted anything publicly yet, but their last Andean bear, Rosalita (Rosie) passed away this past weekend. Unfortunately the zoo only has two sloth bears for their Bear Country section now. I am hoping they acquire another Andean bear in the future.
 
blospz said:
I am not sure why the zoo has not posted anything publicly yet, but their last Andean bear, Rosalita (Rosie) passed away this past weekend. Unfortunately the zoo only has two sloth bears for their Bear Country section now. I am hoping they acquire another Andean bear in the future.
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These past few years have been tough on the bear collection, but I guess that was expected with so many older animals.
 
blospz said:
I am not sure why the zoo has not posted anything publicly yet, but their last Andean bear, Rosalita (Rosie) passed away this past weekend. Unfortunately the zoo only has two sloth bears for their Bear Country section now. I am hoping they acquire another Andean bear in the future.
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Or some American Black Bears (given the fact that they have the signage for them yet never exhibited them AFAIK).
 
Wyman said:
Or some American Black Bears (given the fact that they have the signage for them yet never exhibited them AFAIK).
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Where did they have this signage? Regardless, they just redid all the bear signs, updating with the names of the current residents and also had poster sized photos of Andean bears too.
 
blospz said:
Where did they have this signage? Regardless, they just redid all the bear signs, updating with the names of the current residents and also had poster sized photos of Andean bears too.
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They had this signage near the glass viewing of Rosalita/Ben's yard, in the little cave near the sloth bears.
 
blospz said:
Oh okay, then I believe that has been removed. Now are the poster sized photos of Andean bears there.
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That makes perfect sense. In that case, I imagine the zoo will get another andean bear given all the trouble they went through to make those signs.
 
Wyman said:
That makes perfect sense. In that case, I imagine the zoo will get another andean bear given all the trouble they went through to make those signs.
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Also as the species needs more capacity for its SSP. Given the state of bear populations in AZA zoos, every space is needed for the key species Sloth Bear and Andean Bear (Polar bears kinda being on their own with separate exhibit needs, yet still not being sustainable).
 
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