Pinniped species in captivity?

MikeG said:
Yes, I too have been taken into the penguin exhibit at SeaWorld SAN DIEGO. However, when it came to the Hawaiian Monk Seals at SeaWorld SAN ANTONIO, things were very different. Most zoo staff in USA collections are very obliging & helpful - the Texas branch of SeaWorld seems to be an exception.
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So why whine about your treatment at SeaWorld?

Special privileges should never be expected!
 
Dicerorhinus said:
So why whine about your treatment at SeaWorld?

Special privileges should never be expected!
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No one is whining here except you.

Mike would have paid USD 60 or more to get into SeaWorld and hence is in full right to expect to get to see Hawaiian Monk Seals and everything else they have; instead the seals are kept behind the scenes as some kind of gem (which they are, to an extend) and charged extra for. When you pay this much, you should be entitled to see ALL that they have.

The only acceptable reasons for keeping an animal off display are those which have to do with the welfare of the animal, and charging extra is not among those reasons. Quarantine, breeding, etc. None of these applies to those seals. I believe that SeaWorld was asked a few years ago to take them by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service as they had become injured and would not be returned to the wild, so they could live out their lives there. They could have given them to a place in their native Hawaii but instead for some reason sent them over to landlocked San Antonio.

I went to Edinburgh Castle the other day. Admission is over 22 Pounds Sterling but for that you get to see everything, including the Honours of Scotland themselves (i.e. the Scottish Crown Jeweles). They don't charge extra for getting to see the most priced possessions in the Castle. What do you think, should they start that now?
 
MikeG said:
No, if you show enough interest, and explain that you've come all the way from the UK to see them, you will be informed that by paying extra $$$ you can see them as part of a behind-the-scenes tour.
Which of course we did.
But money is the Great God at SeaWorld. Don't expect free favours.
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I guess I got lucky: the only thing I had to pay for was parking. I knew that Sea World has a policy that as long as you spend under an hour in the park you don't have to pay admission. It's called a shopper's pass I believe. Once I was in, to my dismay I found the Hawaiian Monk Seals to be off exhibit (even though I was assured over the phone they were on exhibit). I pleaded my case of traveling all the way from NY just to see these rare creatures, and after a few nervous minutes they told me to meet one of the keepers over by the front entrance and she would take me behind the scenes free of charge. I was also surprised by their massive size, and was able to get some good photos.

I had already had enough bad luck that day considering I almost had my entire day squandered. I was attempting to see 3 new species at 3 different facilities in a 6 hour span (because Sea World only opened at noon). At 11am, while trying to fill up the nearly empty gas tank of my rental car, I discovered the gas tank door was totally jammed. If I was forced to waste a couple hours switching out rental cars, I'd easily miss out on 1 or 2 of the new species I had set out to see. Thankfully I was assured over the phone I could try and pry the gas tank door open without any penalty by the rental car company. So with the door open, and gas in I was only a few minutes behind schedule to see my first Hawaiian Monk Seals, Vaal Rhebok, and Fanaloka or Malagasy civet. Simply stunning that all three species can be found within 100 mile radius of San Antonio, TX.
 
Oh that's no fair! I've traveled all over this state looking for antelope. Please?:)
 
Baldur said:
Mike would have paid USD 60 or more to get into SeaWorld and hence is in full right to expect to get to see Hawaiian Monk Seals and everything else they have; instead the seals are kept behind the scenes as some kind of gem (which they are, to an extend) and charged extra for. When you pay this much, you should be entitled to see ALL that they have.
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Says who? He knew the animals were off exhibit. The animals have never been advertised as being on exhibit. MikeG could have paid $600 and would be no more entitled to view something which wasn’t advertised with a general admission. I certainly don’t turn up at a zoo (museum or gallery for that matter) and expect to see everything. How do you come up with these ideas?

Baldur said:
The only acceptable reasons for keeping an animal off display are those which have to do with the welfare of the animal, and charging extra is not among those reasons. Quarantine, breeding, etc. None of these applies to those seals.
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Where do you people get this sense of entitlement? “The only acceptable reasons”? Seriously?

I don’t know the details about the seals but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it were stipulated by the USFWS in the re-housing agreement that they are not on public display.

Baldur said:
I believe that SeaWorld was asked a few years ago to take them by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service as they had become injured and would not be returned to the wild, so they could live out their lives there. They could have given them to a place in their native Hawaii but instead for some reason sent them over to landlocked San Antonio.

I went to Edinburgh Castle the other day. Admission is over 22 Pounds Sterling but for that you get to see everything, including the Honours of Scotland themselves (i.e. the Scottish Crown Jeweles). They don't charge extra for getting to see the most priced possessions in the Castle. What do you think, should they start that now?
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Has it occurred to you that the off exhibit areas are not something the majority of visitors are interested in or would have time to appreciate, are not safe or designed to be explored freely by visitors and the additional fee pays for your tour guide and funds marine animal rehabilitation which is actually what you are paying to see in action?
Obviously not because your arguements are heavily flawed at best, and at worst utterly ludicrous
There are countless institutions that charge an additional fee for a guided tour of non-public spaces (which is how I first got to see an Architeuthis dux specimen.)
 
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Apart from ZooChatters and similar enthusiasts, who would pay extra to see an Hawaiian Monk Seal? Most people see one seal and are satisfied ("seen one, seen 'em all") unless they also have a walrus. And most people wouldn't have even heard of a Monk Seal anyway.

:p

Hix
 
Dicerorhinus said:
Says who? He knew the animals were off exhibit. The animals have never been advertised as being on exhibit.
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Not true. When did I ever say I knew the monk seals were off-exhibit? At least one specimen had been on-exhibit until recently, been photographed and commented on by another ZooChatter, and my understanding was that it was still there. The speculation about stipulations "by the USFWS in the re-housing agreement that they are not on public display" is way off the mark: some specimens were on public exhibit for years.
(It is odd to be slagged off by someone who claims to 'know' what another person knew....but gets it wrong!)
 
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Just got back from Japan - Sea Paradise in Toba Japan has bearded seals, Steller sea lions, California sea lions, harbor seals, fur seals and a Southern elephant seal (in a tiny and dismal tank the size of a kiddie pool. The (much nicer) Toba Aquarium has Baikal seals, fur seals, Pacific walrus, California sea lions, Steller sea lions, harbor and grey seals. Side note they also have a dugong and two african manatees. I'll post pictures in a bit.
 
Just a couple of points re.the previous...I was with Mike G on the trip to San Antonio,having had the fortune to tour the facility when it was on winter shut-down a decade or more ago i can say that Sea World can be very generous with time and effort, but on the recent trip staff told me that under the new ownership things are different indeed with much more emphasis on profit than in the past.Perhaps this will have repercussions all round within this company.For a list of all pinniped species kept in captivity go to Richard Weigls book on longevity of mammals in captivity,which misses an odd taxon or two but literally only that over thousands of species.The general loss of elephant seals in captivity is a real shame,ive seen the northern ssp recently in the wild but its not really the same!
 
Melbourne Zoo has three Australian fur seals and one male sub-antarctic fur seal.
Taronga Zoo has two Leopard seals (Casey and Sabine), a hand full of Californian and Australian sea lions, and a couple of fur seals.
Adelaide Zoo have a pair of Australian Sea Lions.
Underwater world (Sunshine Coast Queensland) have a few Australian Sea lions, Australian and I think one NZ fur seal.
Not sure what Seaworld in Queensland have.
(These are what I've seen in the last year so should be up to date [23/7/2011])

Does anyone know of any Elephant, Ross or Weddell seals currently in captivity? Either on or off display?
 
Saro said:
Duisburg kept a (rescued) northern Elephant seal in the early eighties for a short time and Sea World San Diego occasionally has Guadalupe fur seals in rehab, which are although usually not visible for the general public.
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SeaWorld San Diego currently has two Guadalupe fur seals on display.
 
OK, I'm not even sure whether this chat is still alive or not. My answer here is probably as useless as the first two guys' but not as nasty.
Isis is of course incomplete. It does not list the Russian or Japanese aquariums and zoos which are displaying the cool stuff.
Gotta check each Japanese aquarium website individually.
I saw a massive male Southern Elephant Seal at Enoshima Aquarium, south of Tokyo. It would perform a short show, raising up to its glorious height. The giant died in the late 90s. Not sure if any other around these days. One must always check.
I'd check Enoshima Aquarium (wich also has Stellers') and also Yokohama Hakejima Sea Paradise. There are dozens of good aquariums in Japan.
I also was lucky to see the leopard seal at Taronga, In Sydney. It was put down in 2014. Plenty of South American Sea Lions in Argentinian zoos.
There used to be a grey seal performing at Marineland, Niagara falls, but you never know these days, with the activists around. They'd rather see the creature put down than on display.
Vancouver aquarium has Steller Sea Lions.
 
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Check Otaru aquarium in Hokkaido
Ringed seals, bearded seals, Steller Sea Lions, South American Sea lions, harbour seals, walruses, Largha seals and a ribbon seal.
 
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