Planning a Tentative European Zoo Trip - Fall 2024/Spring 2025

[Kudu21]

Hello again, everyone! I want to thank all of you for taking the time to reply and share your thoughts and suggestions with me. Over the past two weeks I have worked off and on to try and put together a more solid plan for this trip based on the suggestions that I have received, and it has been immensely helpful! I do not have too many updates yet, as my partner and I are both indecisive people, and I need him to give me places he wants to see and things he wants to do to further steer the direction of the trip

The LAX airport in Los Angeles almost always has the cheapest flights in and out of southern California; however, so I did not even think to look at flying out of San Diego when we first started thinking about this trip. After deciding to look deeper into my options after the suggestions of trying to find a flight direct to Central Europe, I was shocked to find even cheaper flights from San Diego to Amsterdam and Frankfurt than from LA to Paris and London! They are not direct flights, like the flights to Paris or London are; however, the layovers are minimal without being stress-inducingly short, and they will deliver us to a much more central homebase for the trip and cut travel time, overall. This alone should help to make the trip feel less rushed as we still try and narrow down the scope of the trip and what we want to see with our limited time -- that said, I am currently trying to work with my employer to have a portion of this trip be classified as a work trip in order to save my personal time and potentially extend our stay another four or five days!

With that, itineraries most similar to what @amur leopard and @lintworm have suggested, or perhaps a combination of the two, are most likely at this point depending on what we decide to prioritize and where we end up flying in and out of. I do know that my partner wants to rent a car for at least some of the trip, as he is a bit of a transportation nerd and wishes to both experience driving in another country as well as public transport, so hopefully that will give us more flexibility. For me, now, in addition to the Berlins, Prague and Vienna seem like obvious choice, with Antwerp, Artis, Burgers, Cologne, Innsbruck, Leipzig, Nuremberg, Planckendael, Plzen, and Stuttgart all on the short list as notable options to potentially fill in the gaps with?

 

[Philipine eagle]

My choice would be: travel by car, if you prepare it well, it is more efficient than public transport. Get a hotel near the zoo that has parking, no transfer or luggage issues. On the downside: you need a road vignette in the Czech Republic, Austria and Switzerland (110 euro in total). And it might be a bit more tiring.

I included Zurich Zoo, it's for many the best zoo in Europe. And it gives you the chance to visit Innsbruck and/or Stuttgart. But you can skip that part of the trip if you only have 10 days.

Other outstanding or interesting European zoos are more out of reach: Beauval, Pairi Daiza, Chester.

distances from zoo to zoo

Day 1-3 Berlin : 1 Zoo Berlijn, 1 Tierpark Berlin and 1 day city tripping
Day 4 drive to Prague and visit Dresden (city and or zoo) (340 km driving) of Usti nad Labem on the way.
Day 5-6 Prague : 1 zoo and 1 day city tripping
Day 7 drive to Vienna (350 km, you could add another Czech zoo, Jilhava zoo f.e., it's right on your way to Vienna)
Day 8-9 Vienna : 1 zoo and 1 day city tripping
Day 10 drive to Zurich and visit Innsbruck's Alpenzoo on the way (760 km)
Day 11 Zurich Zoo : leave after the zoo to Stuttgart (220 km)
Day 12 Stuttgart Zoo : leave after the zoo and drive to your next destination
Day 13
If going back to Berlin for your return flight, visit Nurnberg (207 km) or Leipzig (477 km)
If going to Amsterdam/Brussels, visit Burger's Zoo (740 km), it's outstanding and something completely different from the other zoos on your trip.
Or take a day at Antwerp: the zoo isn't a full's day visit (and there's a major construction project) but in summer it's full of charm and probably the archetype of Europe's 19c city zoos. Easily accessible from Brussels by train.

 

[lintworm]

Hello again, everyone! I want to thank all of you for taking the time to reply and share your thoughts and suggestions with me. Over the past two weeks I have worked off and on to try and put together a more solid plan for this trip based on the suggestions that I have received, and it has been immensely helpful! I do not have too many updates yet, as my partner and I are both indecisive people, and I need him to give me places he wants to see and things he wants to do to further steer the direction of the trip

The LAX airport in Los Angeles almost always has the cheapest flights in and out of southern California; however, so I did not even think to look at flying out of San Diego when we first started thinking about this trip. After deciding to look deeper into my options after the suggestions of trying to find a flight direct to Central Europe, I was shocked to find even cheaper flights from San Diego to Amsterdam and Frankfurt than from LA to Paris and London! They are not direct flights, like the flights to Paris or London are; however, the layovers are minimal without being stress-inducingly short, and they will deliver us to a much more central homebase for the trip and cut travel time, overall. This alone should help to make the trip feel less rushed as we still try and narrow down the scope of the trip and what we want to see with our limited time -- that said, I am currently trying to work with my employer to have a portion of this trip be classified as a work trip in order to save my personal time and potentially extend our stay another four or five days!

With that, itineraries most similar to what @amur leopard and @lintworm have suggested, or perhaps a combination of the two, are most likely at this point depending on what we decide to prioritize and where we end up flying in and out of. I do know that my partner wants to rent a car for at least some of the trip, as he is a bit of a transportation nerd and wishes to both experience driving in another country as well as public transport, so hopefully that will give us more flexibility. For me, now, in addition to the Berlins, Prague and Vienna seem like obvious choice, with Antwerp, Artis, Burgers, Cologne, Innsbruck, Leipzig, Nuremberg, Planckendael, Plzen, and Stuttgart all on the short list as notable options to potentially fill in the gaps with?

Just some more suggestions. If you end up flying with Lufthansa/United Airlines (or other partners of Star Alliance) it is worth checking whether you can fly in to Frankfurt and out of Munich/Zurich/Vienna/Brussels for a similar price. Similarly if you end up using KLM/Delta (or other partners of Skyteam), check whether you can fly to Amsterdam and return from e.g. Prague. Though in Central Europa Star Alliance has more options. Flying into Berlin intercontinental probably isn't very cheap/convenient as most intercontinental German flights leave from Frankfurt/Munich. Munich has the upside of being 2 hours from Stuttgart, 1.5 hours from Innsbruck and 1 hour from Nuremberg.

From the list Artis is probably most skippable, but I suppose being in Amsterdam makes it an easy addition if you arrive/depart there. But to give it some scope, Schiphol Airport can be reached in 1 hour 35 minutes from Burgers' Zoo door to door by bus & train. Apenheul will be a similar distance, Diergaarde Blijdorp is only 45 minutes away and Antwerp only 1:35 by train from Schiphol. All zoos which I would prioritize over Artis (though Artis is lovely).

If you stay in Prague, Dvur Kralove, which is antelope walhalla and has aardwolves, could be a long day trip too and possibly easier by car than with trains.

There is just far too much to see

My choice would be: travel by car, if you prepare it well, it is more efficient than public transport. Get a hotel near the zoo that has parking, no transfer or luggage issues. On the downside: you need a road vignette in the Czech Republic, Austria and Switzerland (110 euro in total). And it might be a bit more tiring.

I included Zurich Zoo, it's for many the best zoo in Europe. And it gives you the chance to visit Innsbruck and/or Stuttgart. But you can skip that part of the trip if you only have 10 days.

Other outstanding or interesting European zoos are more out of reach: Beauval, Pairi Daiza, Chester.

distances from zoo to zoo

Day 1-3 Berlin : 1 Zoo Berlijn, 1 Tierpark Berlin and 1 day city tripping
Day 4 drive to Prague and visit Dresden (city and or zoo) (340 km driving) of Usti nad Labem on the way.
Day 5-6 Prague : 1 zoo and 1 day city tripping
Day 7 drive to Vienna (350 km, you could add another Czech zoo, Jilhava zoo f.e., it's right on your way to Vienna)
Day 8-9 Vienna : 1 zoo and 1 day city tripping
Day 10 drive to Zurich and visit Innsbruck's Alpenzoo on the way (760 km)
Day 11 Zurich Zoo : leave after the zoo to Stuttgart (220 km)
Day 12 Stuttgart Zoo : leave after the zoo and drive to your next destination
Day 13
If going back to Berlin for your return flight, visit Nurnberg (207 km) or Leipzig (477 km)
If going to Amsterdam/Brussels, visit Burger's Zoo (740 km), it's outstanding and something completely different from the other zoos on your trip.
Or take a day at Antwerp: the zoo isn't a full's day visit (and there's a major construction project) but in summer it's full of charm and probably the archetype of Europe's 19c city zoos. Easily accessible from Brussels by train.

I would say this is far too much driving, especially with a jetlag and soaking in all these new countries. Trains aren't always punctual, but with an EU-rail pass it can be very cost efficient and saves the hassle of driving in all those crammed European cities

 

[Kudu21]

My choice would be: travel by car, if you prepare it well, it is more efficient than public transport. Get a hotel near the zoo that has parking, no transfer or luggage issues. On the downside: you need a road vignette in the Czech Republic, Austria and Switzerland (110 euro in total). And it might be a bit more tiring.

I included Zurich Zoo, it's for many the best zoo in Europe. And it gives you the chance to visit Innsbruck and/or Stuttgart. But you can skip that part of the trip if you only have 10 days.

Other outstanding or interesting European zoos are more out of reach: Beauval, Pairi Daiza, Chester.

distances from zoo to zoo

Day 1-3 Berlin : 1 Zoo Berlijn, 1 Tierpark Berlin and 1 day city tripping
Day 4 drive to Prague and visit Dresden (city and or zoo) (340 km driving) of Usti nad Labem on the way.
Day 5-6 Prague : 1 zoo and 1 day city tripping
Day 7 drive to Vienna (350 km, you could add another Czech zoo, Jilhava zoo f.e., it's right on your way to Vienna)
Day 8-9 Vienna : 1 zoo and 1 day city tripping
Day 10 drive to Zurich and visit Innsbruck's Alpenzoo on the way (760 km)
Day 11 Zurich Zoo : leave after the zoo to Stuttgart (220 km)
Day 12 Stuttgart Zoo : leave after the zoo and drive to your next destination
Day 13
If going back to Berlin for your return flight, visit Nurnberg (207 km) or Leipzig (477 km)
If going to Amsterdam/Brussels, visit Burger's Zoo (740 km), it's outstanding and something completely different from the other zoos on your trip.
Or take a day at Antwerp: the zoo isn't a full's day visit (and there's a major construction project) but in summer it's full of charm and probably the archetype of Europe's 19c city zoos. Easily accessible from Brussels by train.

Thank you for the additional suggestions. I have really appreciated all of the input and perspectives I have received thus far in this thread. It is particularly good to know about the road vignette in Austria, Czechia, and Switzerland, as that might affect our decision on transportation options for different parts of the trip...

As much as I would love to visit Zurich, it was one of the first places I wrote off my list for this visit just because it is just slightly too far out of the way and just due to the cost of things in Switzerland vs. the other countries we are considering for this trip. I am still a zookeeper after all We are still very much planning and operating this trip on a budget. Hopefully someday I will be able to visit Switzerland, as Zurich and Basel have long been on my list of facilities I wish to see.

While my partner and I have now lived in the two largest states in the continental United States and are by and well accustomed to long drives, I think that we will echo @lintworm and say that that might be more driving than we are wanting to do on this trip Hence why I am trying to condense it/we are considering other transportation options.

Just some more suggestions. If you end up flying with Lufthansa/United Airlines (or other partners of Star Alliance) it is worth checking whether you can fly in to Frankfurt and out of Munich/Zurich/Vienna/Brussels for a similar price. Similarly if you end up using KLM/Delta (or other partners of Skyteam), check whether you can fly to Amsterdam and return from e.g. Prague. Though in Central Europa Star Alliance has more options. Flying into Berlin intercontinental probably isn't very cheap/convenient as most intercontinental German flights leave from Frankfurt/Munich. Munich has the upside of being 2 hours from Stuttgart, 1.5 hours from Innsbruck and 1 hour from Nuremberg.

From the list Artis is probably most skippable, but I suppose being in Amsterdam makes it an easy addition if you arrive/depart there. But to give it some scope, Schiphol Airport can be reached in 1 hour 35 minutes from Burgers' Zoo door to door by bus & train. Apenheul will be a similar distance, Diergaarde Blijdorp is only 45 minutes away and Antwerp only 1:35 by train from Schiphol. All zoos which I would prioritize over Artis (though Artis is lovely).

If you stay in Prague, Dvur Kralove, which is antelope walhalla and has aardwolves, could be a long day trip too and possibly easier by car than with trains.

There is just far too much to see

I would say this is far too much driving, especially with a jetlag and soaking in all these new countries. Trains aren't always punctual, but with an EU-rail pass it can be very cost efficient and saves the hassle of driving in all those crammed European cities

Thank you, as well, for the further suggestions! Using the multi-city tab and the "explore" option to search variable dates on Google Flights, I have been able to find multiple flights in and out of different cities in Central Europe (including, shockingly, Berlin!) for similar prices to the round-trip tickets. This is something that should help tremendously in the logistics and timing of the trip, as this avoids us having to make a big circle to wherever we start to catch our return flight back home.

You are not joking when you say there is just far too much to see Dvur Kralove has always sounded right up my alley; however, I questioned how much it would offer me that is genuinely new or unique from what I can see here in the States or elsewhere on the trip, so I had only previously toyed with the idea of including it in our itinerary. Although, the more I have looked at it, the more I find it appealing, which is entirely not helpful The same has happened to me recently with Madgeburg, which hadn't previously been on my radar...

Good to know re-Artis. Just from a historical aspect/the likelihood that we will spend at least some time in Amsterdam, I had maintained it on my list, but it is good to know that it might be a good option to cut if I have to save time or if my partner gets zoo'd out, haha. Primates are not amongst my favorite animals by any means, so while I would love to one day visit Apenheul simply for its uniqueness and level of exhibitry, I do not think that it is worth it to me to fit it into this trip. Antwerp and Burgers will likely remain my top picks for this region, along with potentially Planckendael.... The Kordofan giraffe and dorcas gazelles will be hard for me to pass up

 

[Jana]

Dvur Kralove keeps majority of its hoofstock off-show during winter season (from beginning of October till end of April). I don´t know if it´s still worth a visit for a hoof fan. Similar situation to Prague - it keeps majority antelope species off-show during winter - but at least it has some winterhard and montanous ungulates you can see year-round.

 

[lintworm]

Thank you for the additional suggestions. I have really appreciated all of the input and perspectives I have received thus far in this thread. It is particularly good to know about the road vignette in Austria, Czechia, and Switzerland, as that might affect our decision on transportation options for different parts of the trip...

As much as I would love to visit Zurich, it was one of the first places I wrote off my list for this visit just because it is just slightly too far out of the way and just due to the cost of things in Switzerland vs. the other countries we are considering for this trip. I am still a zookeeper after all We are still very much planning and operating this trip on a budget. Hopefully someday I will be able to visit Switzerland, as Zurich and Basel have long been on my list of facilities I wish to see.

While my partner and I have now lived in the two largest states in the continental United States and are by and well accustomed to long drives, I think that we will echo @lintworm and say that that might be more driving than we are wanting to do on this trip Hence why I am trying to condense it/we are considering other transportation options.


Thank you, as well, for the further suggestions! Using the multi-city tab and the "explore" option to search variable dates on Google Flights, I have been able to find multiple flights in and out of different cities in Central Europe (including, shockingly, Berlin!) for similar prices to the round-trip tickets. This is something that should help tremendously in the logistics and timing of the trip, as this avoids us having to make a big circle to wherever we start to catch our return flight back home.

You are not joking when you say there is just far too much to see Dvur Kralove has always sounded right up my alley; however, I questioned how much it would offer me that is genuinely new or unique from what I can see here in the States or elsewhere on the trip, so I had only previously toyed with the idea of including it in our itinerary. Although, the more I have looked at it, the more I find it appealing, which is entirely not helpful The same has happened to me recently with Madgeburg, which hadn't previously been on my radar...

Good to know re-Artis. Just from a historical aspect/the likelihood that we will spend at least some time in Amsterdam, I had maintained it on my list, but it is good to know that it might be a good option to cut if I have to save time or if my partner gets zoo'd out, haha. Primates are not amongst my favorite animals by any means, so while I would love to one day visit Apenheul simply for its uniqueness and level of exhibitry, I do not think that it is worth it to me to fit it into this trip. Antwerp and Burgers will likely remain my top picks for this region, along with potentially Planckendael.... The Kordofan giraffe and dorcas gazelles will be hard for me to pass up

You're welcome. When exactly will you want to come. Zoo visiting in Europe tends to be great in September and pretty ok in first half of October and then only from mid-April onwards. There is a good chance the in between is dreary and grey, though not terribly cold

I was just checking which ungulates you might want to see, as they are (near-)absent in the US and came with the following (ones kept in Berlin & Prague or only in Spain/S-Europe ignored) where you have a good chance to actually see them that time of year:

East-Caucasian tur - Liberec/Augsburg (Decin only has females, those are boring...)
Dall's sheep - Plzen
Bukhara urial - Liberec
Alpine chamois - Innsbruck, Salzburg, Karlsuhe Oberwald

Natal red duiker (enclosure might be getting refurbished in Berlin?) - Nuremberg, Dvur Kralove, Halle, Antwerp, Landau
Dorcas gazelle - Stuttgart, Planckendael
Goitered gazelle - Landau, Karlsruhe (Oberwald), Goerlitz
White-tailed gnu - Dvur, Poznan, Olomouc
Kaama hartebeest - Wroclaw*

Mountain anoa - Krefeld*

European roe deer - Kept in plenty of smaller zoos and not in bigger ones, but you're likely to seem them from the train

Kordofan giraffe - Dresden, Dortmund, Planckendael, Rhenen
Maneless zebra - Liberec, Plzen, Dvur
Onager - Karlsruhe Oberwald, Emmen, Augsburg, Magdeburg, Cologne

* Only single elderly males left, so not sure if it is worth to plan your trip around them...

Based on this list, it would make sense to add Dresden to the list. It is perfect mid-way between Berlin and Dresden (and only 1 hour from Leipzig). Additionally Dresden does have a fantastic old town.

Liberec in N-Czechia also comes on the radar, but might be just too much of a detour. Apart from the ungulates in nice simple enclosures, the rest of the zoo isn't exactly top-notch.

Another interesting cluster is SW Germany. Stuttgart, which is a unique and fantastic garden and offers you quokka, kaka, fanaloka and Dorcas gazelle. But nearby Karlsruhe has a zoo that is open 24/7 with some rare ungulates you can get really close to: the Tierpark Oberwald with onager, chamois, a bachelor herd of goitered gazelle (and Rocky Mountains goat, white-lipped deer, European elk/moose and some other species to top it of). Nearby Landau has more goitered gazelle and visible Natal red duiker. So there is something to say for visiting that corner too. Karlsruhe is 1 hour with a direct train from Frankfurt Airport (or less then 2 from Cologne / 40-60 minutes from Stuttgart). You could spend the day in Stuttgart and depending on when it gets dark catch a train to Karlsruhe and visit Tierpark Oberwald in the early evening.

Btw: when planning train journeys anywhere on the continent, use the website of Deutsche Bahn: www.bahn.de, their planning tool is up-to-date for the whole of Europe and is far superior to what google offers.

 

[Philipine eagle]

I fully agree with Lintworm's suggestions. Dresden is a perfect 1 day stay: the spectacular baroque city centre gives you a good idea of traditional European city centres and it is compact enough for 1 evening or morning. And there is a good zoo with lots of ungulates.
I would skip Landau, it has too little to offer. Stuttgart is a must see and you'll really need a full tiring but very satisfying day.

On a side note: there are night trains from Vienna to Zurich : Vienna Hbf → Zürich by Train from €29 | Cheap Tickets & Times | Trainline (thetrainline.com). So you can sleep and travel, which save you a hotel stay and the Swiss road vignette (which is the most expensive of the 3). And Zurich has very good railroad connections with Stuttgart.

 

[Kudu21]

You're welcome. When exactly will you want to come. Zoo visiting in Europe tends to be great in September and pretty ok in first half of October and then only from mid-April onwards. There is a good chance the in between is dreary and grey, though not terribly cold

September is most ideal and what I am really hoping for, weather-wise and schedule-wise Early May next year would be backup if the pieces do not fall into place for this year. With that, per @Jana's advice on Dvur Kralove, I looked on their website, and it appears the Safari does not close until the end of September, so hopefully most of the hoofstock would still be on display for an early-to-mid September visit if we decide to add it to our itinerary.

I was just checking which ungulates you might want to see, as they are (near-)absent in the US and came with the following (ones kept in Berlin & Prague or only in Spain/S-Europe ignored) where you have a good chance to actually see them that time of year:

East-Caucasian tur - Liberec/Augsburg (Decin only has females, those are boring...)
Dall's sheep - Plzen
Bukhara urial - Liberec
Alpine chamois - Innsbruck, Salzburg, Karlsuhe Oberwald

Natal red duiker (enclosure might be getting refurbished in Berlin?) - Nuremberg, Dvur Kralove, Halle, Antwerp, Landau
Dorcas gazelle - Stuttgart, Planckendael
Goitered gazelle - Landau, Karlsruhe (Oberwald), Goerlitz
White-tailed gnu - Dvur, Poznan, Olomouc
Kaama hartebeest - Wroclaw*

Mountain anoa - Krefeld*

European roe deer - Kept in plenty of smaller zoos and not in bigger ones, but you're likely to seem them from the train

Kordofan giraffe - Dresden, Dortmund, Planckendael, Rhenen
Maneless zebra - Liberec, Plzen, Dvur
Onager - Karlsruhe Oberwald, Emmen, Augsburg, Magdeburg, Cologne

Thank you for this! I have tried perusing ZTL and ZIMS to confirm locations of potential target species, but it is immensely helpful to have it all laid out in one place!

* Only single elderly males left, so not sure if it is worth to plan your trip around them...

I was all too aware of these two European zoo legends and their respective advanced ages... I have seen herds of Cape hartebeest in the wild in South Africa, so I am more than content in not try to go well out of the way to see him in Wroclaw if he is still alive. If the mountain anoa is still alive, I might try to make arrangements to pop over to Krefeld to see to see him if it aligns, but I have contented myself to the fact that I might not be able to swing that.

Based on this list, it would make sense to add Dresden to the list. It is perfect mid-way between Berlin and Dresden (and only 1 hour from Leipzig). Additionally Dresden does have a fantastic old town.

I fully agree with Lintworm's suggestions. Dresden is a perfect 1 day stay: the spectacular baroque city centre gives you a good idea of traditional European city centres and it is compact enough for 1 evening or morning. And there is a good zoo with lots of ungulates.

I had heard good things about Dresden as a city but not much about its zoo! Do you think it is worth squeezing a visit to Dresden in for the giraffe (possibly at a loss over Magdeburg or Leipzig) or would it be better to try and fit in Planckendael?

Liberec in N-Czechia also comes on the radar, but might be just too much of a detour. Apart from the ungulates in nice simple enclosures, the rest of the zoo isn't exactly top-notch.

I think Liberec is going to be just a little too much of a detour just for the urial and tur and a zoo that does not have much else to offer... That I do not think I could sell my partner on I still hope see the maneless zebra at either Plzen or Dvur.

Another interesting cluster is SW Germany. Stuttgart, which is a unique and fantastic garden and offers you quokka, kaka, fanaloka and Dorcas gazelle. But nearby Karlsruhe has a zoo that is open 24/7 with some rare ungulates you can get really close to: the Tierpark Oberwald with onager, chamois, a bachelor herd of goitered gazelle (and Rocky Mountains goat, white-lipped deer, European elk/moose and some other species to top it of). Nearby Landau has more goitered gazelle and visible Natal red duiker. So there is something to say for visiting that corner too. Karlsruhe is 1 hour with a direct train from Frankfurt Airport (or less then 2 from Cologne / 40-60 minutes from Stuttgart). You could spend the day in Stuttgart and depending on when it gets dark catch a train to Karlsruhe and visit Tierpark Oberwald in the early evening.

This is particularly interesting! Stuttgart has quickly risen on my list of places to try and fit in our itinerary. My partner has a deep interest in plants, so between the acclaimed botanical gardens for him and the rarities for me (although, I know he, too, will very much enjoy seeing the quokka ), it seems like a solid addition. The idea of combining it with the 24/7 Tierpark Oberwald, for its very different atmosphere and style and rare ungulates, is really enticing! Perhaps on the way to Cologne?

Btw: when planning train journeys anywhere on the continent, use the website of Deutsche Bahn: www.bahn.de, their planning tool is up-to-date for the whole of Europe and is far superior to what google offers.

Thank you very much! I have bookmarked this for future use. Just perusing it briefly, it already looks so much better than the transit mapping on Google Maps.

On a side note: there are night trains from Vienna to Zurich : Vienna Hbf → Zürich by Train from €29 | Cheap Tickets & Times | Trainline (thetrainline.com). So you can sleep and travel, which save you a hotel stay and the Swiss road vignette (which is the most expensive of the 3). And Zurich has very good railroad connections with Stuttgart.

Thank you for this! Night trains will be something to consider, as it really does kill multiple birds with one stone! It would be really efficient use of time for travel.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

With that, per @Jana's advice on Dvur Kralove, I looked on their website, and it appears the Safari does not close until the end of September, so hopefully most of the hoofstock would still be on display for an early-to-mid September visit if we decide to add it to our itinerary.

I visited in the third week of September 2023 and had no trouble whatsoever seeing everything both within the safari and the main body of the zoo

Do you think it is worth squeezing a visit to Dresden in for the giraffe (possibly at a loss over Magdeburg or Leipzig) or would it be better to try and fit in Planckendael?

I think it would be foolish to try to replace either Magdeburg or Leipzig with Dresden; the latter is good, but not in the same league as those two.

 

[Philipine eagle]

I would not skip Leipzig for Dresden when it comes to zoos.

Leipzig is one of Europe's giants, and while Dresden is a good and certainly interesting zoo, it does not play in the same league. I suggested it because you mentioned also your interest in culture and since it's on the road to Prague. But between those 2, choose Leipzig.

Between Dresden and Magdeburg: difficult choice but I slightly prefer Dresden.

The giraffe building in Planckendael isn't accessible if that would help you choose.

 

[Cobi]

As much as I would love to visit Zurich, it was one of the first places I wrote off my list for this visit just because it is just slightly too far out of the way and just due to the cost of things in Switzerland vs. the other countries we are considering for this trip. I am still a zookeeper after all We are still very much planning and operating this trip on a budget. Hopefully someday I will be able to visit Switzerland, as Zurich and Basel have long been on my list of facilities I wish to see.

It might be worth noting that Basel can be easily reached from south west Germany being literally on the border so you might be able to fit it in that way. Depending on how much time you have, the old town of Basel is worth a visit and Tierpark Lange Erlen with a focus on European fauna is also nearby.

 

[Kudu21]

I visited in the third week of September 2023 and had no trouble whatsoever seeing everything both within the safari and the main body of the zoo

Perfect! That is very good news to hear. Thank you

I think it would be foolish to try to replace either Magdeburg or Leipzig with Dresden; the latter is good, but not in the same league as those two.

I would not skip Leipzig for Dresden when it comes to zoos.

Leipzig is one of Europe's giants, and while Dresden is a good and certainly interesting zoo, it does not play in the same league.

Between Dresden and Magdeburg: difficult choice but I slightly prefer Dresden.

I imagined not, but I had not heard much about its zoo, so I thought I would ask! Having to balance my interest in zoos with my partner not wanting to visit Europe only to visit zoos, I am having to be strategic I figured I would be more likely to sell him on Leipzig.

I am interested in the differing opinions on Magdeburg vs. Dresden, though. Are there particular reasons why you each prefer one over the other? My partner is now not entirely sure whether he will be able to get as much time off as I will for the trip, so if that is the case, I fully intend to fill the rest of my time in Europe without him with more zoos

I suggested it because you mentioned also your interest in culture and since it's on the road to Prague.

I very much appreciate the suggestion of Dresden as a city! It looks like it will be a good stop over for us between Berlin and Prague and will hit on a lot of what we want to get out of this trip. I just imagine its zoo is not one we will visit.. together at least

The giraffe building in Planckendael isn't accessible if that would help you choose.

That is good to know that the giraffe would not be visible if they are not outside. I might just have to give up on the Kordofan giraffe unless I do, indeed, get some time on this trip by myself.

It might be worth noting that Basel can be easily reached from south west Germany being literally on the border so you might be able to fit it in that way. Depending on how much time you have, the old town of Basel is worth a visit and Tierpark Lange Erlen with a focus on European fauna is also nearby.

Thank you! For as much as I would love to make this work, I do still think that Basel is going to be just a little too far out of the way, unfortunately. All the more reason to try and make a return visit sometime!

 

[twilighter]

@Philipine eagle isn't it the Kordofan Giraffes at Planckendael visible trough the windows or the access is totally restricted now ?

@Kudu21 if you still consider Belgium, I think you shouldn't miss Pairi Daiza. I am not sure what your partner's preference are, but this crazy place has to offer something to everyone

It is hard not to recommend Magdeburg over Dresden at this moment. Having the chance to see Grandider's vontsira and Marbled Polecat and to combine it with 30 minutes away (if you are driving on the way to Leipzig) Schönebeck it is a rare chance for species hunter like you The city is quite boring tho, offering only one famous house and one unique bridge.

 

[Philipine eagle]

@twilighter :They are indeed visible through windows but visibility depends on how clean the windows are.

 

[lintworm]

It is hard not to recommend Magdeburg over Dresden at this moment. Having the chance to see Grandider's vontsira and Marbled Polecat and to combine it with 30 minutes away (if you are driving on the way to Leipzig) Schönebeck it is a rare chance for species hunter like you The city is quite boring tho, offering only one famous house and one unique bridge.

I would not be so sure about that. If one were to visit Leipzig or Dresden or Magdeburg, it should be Leipzig. But between Dresden and Magdeburg I would probably opt for Dresden

Yes, Magdeburg has the big draw of these 2 rare carnivores. It also is great in building good natural budget style enclosures. But the Magdeburg of now is not the one from a few years ago. A large number of rarities have left and the city is indeed quite boring. Schoenebeck might be a 30 minute drive, but with public transport (and walking) this small rodent zoo is 1.5 hours.

Dresden has less extreme mammal rarities, but has one of the best European bird collections of Europe (together with Innsbruck & Warsaw). It is an old city zoo, but with somewhat less visible history, but some very interesting pieces of modern zoo architecture and an overall very solid collection (and once the orang utans have moved with a very high level of exhibitry overall) Maybe with few species that Berlin or Prague cannot offer, but plenty of rarer ones. Together with the beautiful old town, I would probably rather spend a day in Dresden than in Magdeburg.

@Kudu21 If you will travel this September, I will be in Vienna & Czechia (Prague, Dvur, Zlin, Plzen among others) from September 10-18, so there might be a chance to meet up.

 

[Batto]

And now for something completely different...
I'm going to throw my hat in the ring: why not visit Salzburg?
- Very scenic
- Three very different zoos (one actually owned by a ZooChatter, aka yours truly)
- Plenty of things to do as an American tourist in and around the city
- The only place in the world to see wild chamois in an urban setting:
Kapuzinerberg : Nature in Salzburg : salzburg.info

I do wonder whether all these lovely fellow European ZooChatters tend to forget my WdG by accident whenever suggesting European zoo trips or just want to snub me on purpose. Honi soit qui mal y pense...
What my little zoo lacks in size (and in this case, ungulates), it more than makes up in uniqueness. Don't believe it? Ask @TeaLovingDave who just visited me today. Or dare and come...

 

[TeaLovingDave]

The only place in the world to see wild chamois in an urban setting:
Kapuzinerberg : Nature in Salzburg : salzburg.info

I'm yet to successfully see the chamois myself, but I can't exactly complain too much when today's visit to WdG brought me a total of four lifetick species

 

[Philipine eagle]

I am interested in the differing opinions on Magdeburg vs. Dresden, though. Are there particular reasons why you each prefer one over the other? My partner is now not entirely sure whether he will be able to get as much time off as I will for the trip, so if that is the case, I fully intend to fill the rest of my time in Europe without him with more zoos

It's not that easy to balance both with each other.

Both are similar in size (13 ha Dresden vs 16 ha Magdeburg) and focus on mammals and birds. Reptiles, amphibians and fish are clearly less present, although Dresden has small but interesting collections on these.

Clearly Magdeburg is far ahead on primates but I read that you have no particular interest in those.
Carnivores and certainly ungulates are pretty equal and both zoos have many species which are rare of even not present in your country.

Dresden: Javan banteng, Chinese dhole, Javan chevrotain, Red forest buffalo, Central Chinese goral, koala, Mitchie's tufted deer, West Caucasian tur, golden takin, Northern yellow-throated marten, Venezuela red howler, Sumatran prevost squirrel, South African bat-eared fox, Etruscan shrew, Indochinese smooth-coated otter and common hog deer.
Magdeburg: has more mammals and therefor more rare species: Grandidier's vontsira and marbled polecat ofcourse, but also Cape ground squirrel, dusky pademelon, Northern warthog, gelada baboon, Mishmi takin, Chinese dhole, Central Chinese goral, Pallas' squirrel, Northern talapoin, Mitchie's tufted deer, onager, Defassa waterbuck, red-flanked variegated squirrel, 8 species of marmosets & tamarin, dark cusimanse, black-rumped agouti, green acouchy.

Of the zoos you considered, Dresden has the best collection of European bird species, and in particular the Tundra aviary and the row of perching birds are very good. And it has white-crowned wheatear.
Magdeburg is better for birds of prey and has brown-breasted barbets.

In terms of multi-species complexes, Dresden's Prof. Brandes-Haus and the new orangutan house are the key buildings in Dresden. And the 'Zoo unter der Erde' is a tiny but highly original exhibit focusing on small subterranean animals.
In Magdeburg the Africambo savannah exhibit is the most important.
Both zoos have other accessible buildings.

Both have nice gardens with mature trees, although I find the landscaping in Dresden just a little cozier. It's at 2.5 km from the historical city centre.

Again, if I had to choose, it would be Dresden. But with that, there's not to say anything bad on Magdeburg.

Hope this helps you a bit, but choosing is losing

 

[Kudu21]

@Kudu21 if you still consider Belgium, I think you shouldn't miss Pairi Daiza. I am not sure what your partner's preference are, but this crazy place has to offer something to everyone

Belgium is definitely still in consideration -- I, at the very least, wish to visit Antwerp. It is funny, though, as my partner actually discovered Pairi Daiza on his own and brought it up to me (he had seen an ad for the walrus hotel room). While I will admit to being very intrigued by the sheer absurdity (for a lack of better words ) of Pairi Daiza, it was not initially somewhere I considered for this trip due to its relative remoteness compared to the other places of interest on this trip and it being a relative anomaly from the more traditional European zoos I wished to experience on my visit. That said, if my partner is unable to take as much time off as I will be able to, we might consolidate the portion of the trip we spend together to Belgium, The Netherlands, and western Germany, and I will travel through the rest of Germany, Czechia, and Austria on my own either before or after. In this case, Pairi Daiza might end up on our itinerary as something he has shown interest in on his own.

It is hard not to recommend Magdeburg over Dresden at this moment. Having the chance to see Grandider's vontsira and Marbled Polecat and to combine it with 30 minutes away (if you are driving on the way to Leipzig) Schönebeck it is a rare chance for species hunter like you The city is quite boring tho, offering only one famous house and one unique bridge.

I would not be so sure about that. If one were to visit Leipzig or Dresden or Magdeburg, it should be Leipzig. But between Dresden and Magdeburg I would probably opt for Dresden

Yes, Magdeburg has the big draw of these 2 rare carnivores. It also is great in building good natural budget style enclosures. But the Magdeburg of now is not the one from a few years ago. A large number of rarities have left and the city is indeed quite boring. Schoenebeck might be a 30 minute drive, but with public transport (and walking) this small rodent zoo is 1.5 hours.

Dresden has less extreme mammal rarities, but has one of the best European bird collections of Europe (together with Innsbruck & Warsaw). It is an old city zoo, but with somewhat less visible history, but some very interesting pieces of modern zoo architecture and an overall very solid collection (and once the orang utans have moved with a very high level of exhibitry overall) Maybe with few species that Berlin or Prague cannot offer, but plenty of rarer ones. Together with the beautiful old town, I would probably rather spend a day in Dresden than in Magdeburg.

It's not that easy to balance both with each other.

Both are similar in size (13 ha Dresden vs 16 ha Magdeburg) and focus on mammals and birds. Reptiles, amphibians and fish are clearly less present, although Dresden has small but interesting collections on these.

Clearly Magdeburg is far ahead on primates but I read that you have no particular interest in those.
Carnivores and certainly ungulates are pretty equal and both zoos have many species which are rare of even not present in your country.

Dresden: Javan banteng, Chinese dhole, Javan chevrotain, Red forest buffalo, Central Chinese goral, koala, Mitchie's tufted deer, West Caucasian tur, golden takin, Northern yellow-throated marten, Venezuela red howler, Sumatran prevost squirrel, South African bat-eared fox, Etruscan shrew, Indochinese smooth-coated otter and common hog deer.
Magdeburg: has more mammals and therefor more rare species: Grandidier's vontsira and marbled polecat ofcourse, but also Cape ground squirrel, dusky pademelon, Northern warthog, gelada baboon, Mishmi takin, Chinese dhole, Central Chinese goral, Pallas' squirrel, Northern talapoin, Mitchie's tufted deer, onager, Defassa waterbuck, red-flanked variegated squirrel, 8 species of marmosets & tamarin, dark cusimanse, black-rumped agouti, green acouchy.

Of the zoos you considered, Dresden has the best collection of European bird species, and in particular the Tundra aviary and the row of perching birds are very good. And it has white-crowned wheatear.
Magdeburg is better for birds of prey and has brown-breasted barbets.

In terms of multi-species complexes, Dresden's Prof. Brandes-Haus and the new orangutan house are the key buildings in Dresden. And the 'Zoo unter der Erde' is a tiny but highly original exhibit focusing on small subterranean animals.
In Magdeburg the Africambo savannah exhibit is the most important.
Both zoos have other accessible buildings.

Both have nice gardens with mature trees, although I find the landscaping in Dresden just a little cozier. It's at 2.5 km from the historical city centre.

Again, if I had to choose, it would be Dresden. But with that, there's not to say anything bad on Magdeburg.

Hope this helps you a bit, but choosing is losing

Thank you to all three of you for your very detailed thoughts and opinions on Dresden vs. Magdeburg. It was all greatly appreciated and very helpful! I think with all of the information provided about the zoos and cities, Dresden would take precedence over Magdeburg for this trip and what we are both trying to get out of it (it also just better fits within our route of travel).

@Kudu21 If you will travel this September, I will be in Vienna & Czechia (Prague, Dvur, Zlin, Plzen among others) from September 10-18, so there might be a chance to meet up.

That is good to know! That would be within our intended travel time if September works out, so I will be sure to check in with you once our details are nailed down.

And now for something completely different...
I'm going to throw my hat in the ring: why not visit Salzburg?
- Very scenic
- Three very different zoos (one actually owned by a ZooChatter, aka yours truly)
- Plenty of things to do as an American tourist in and around the city
- The only place in the world to see wild chamois in an urban setting:
Kapuzinerberg : Nature in Salzburg : salzburg.info

I do wonder whether all these lovely fellow European ZooChatters tend to forget my WdG by accident whenever suggesting European zoo trips or just want to snub me on purpose. Honi soit qui mal y pense...
What my little zoo lacks in size (and in this case, ungulates), it more than makes up in uniqueness. Don't believe it? Ask @TeaLovingDave who just visited me today. Or dare and come...

I would expect that it is my passion for ungulates and the limited time I will have on the continent that has exempted Salzburg and your facility from the suggestions I have received thus far That said, I do always enjoy seeing herps, and it would be my pleasure to have the opportunity to visit WdG, and the possibility of seeing wild chamois within the city is very intriguing. If not for this trip, I will certainly remember these suggestions for a return trip to Europe in the future!

 

[Dormitator]

Pairi Daiza speaks for itself and whilst the hotel is phenomenally expensive, if you are planning on visiting there over two days (which you should) then it does make a bit more sense as you get an excellent breakfast buffet and dinner. Everyone will have their own favourite hotel species to stay with but the walrus room really was special. You can also walk around a good chunk of the zoo at night which is pretty cool, and you can watch the animal feeds in the morning before the park opens to the public. The last one was an unexpected treat, not taking up the opportunity to throw a fish to the polar bears because I mistranslated the keepers offer is something I still regret!

If you do go up there, then even more out of the way is Brouwerij de Sint-Sixtusabdij van Westvleteren, widely regarded as one of the greatest Belgian breweries. If you're not familiar with the brewery it's quite remarkable and phenomenally difficult to get hold of without going there, however the brasserie is excellent it's well worth going there for lunch.

Antwerp zoo is a great mix of old and new with some remarkable structures from the 1800s. It's a great contrast to Pairi Daiza. The city is nice and worth spending time in, but just as good as the zoo is Cafe Kulminator which is the best Belgian beer bar I've been to. There is a password on the door which is strictly enforced (seriously) and cash only, but the beer bible is enormous and it's a wonderful place to spend a few hours.

Having planned a massive road trip across Europe a few years ago which COVID put pay to, driving across Europe at this scale really will be hugely time consuming, and don't forget our higher fuel prices. It may be worth consolidating around either the east or west and having a loop from whichever airport you choose to fly to. This will give you a bit more time to explore small places and the cities which you would have to give up for driving. I completely understand the desire to make the most of the flight over but it would let you do a lot more. Various folk on here recommended I scale down a bit from my original plans to drive from the UK to Czechia, and though COVID stopped the original plan the smaller trip I did (admittedly also over a shorter period of time) meant I dropped some zoos in favour of museums and botanical gardens which were brilliant. I've always been appreciative of the sensible suggestions of those folk who offered advice.