Planning a Tentative European Zoo Trip - Fall 2024/Spring 2025

Hello again, everyone! Over the past almost two months now, my partner and I have slowly-but-surely continued to chip away at the planning of our trip to Europe! The past couple of months have been particularly busy for the both of us at our respective jobs, so planning has not quite progressed at the speed we had hoped, but it has come along. Prices have remained pretty consistent, and they have actually remain cheaper than what is expected for Spring 2025, so at this time, we are still looking at fall of this year!

As we have been working out the details of the trip, it has become clear that my partner's work will not allow him any more than two weeks of vacation, so we are going to be limited to 14-to-16 days, in total. As such, we have decided to narrow the focus of this trip and forego The Netherlands, Belgium, and likely western Germany for this trip, with the hopes of being able to return to Europe for a focused trip on that region plus France in a year or two. Our current plan is to have Berlin, Prague, and Vienna as our three main bases.

With the flight options available, we are currently debating between a couple of different feasible routes (of course, the cheapest route available (via Munich) would cause us to lose three extra days to travel one-way and four days to travel round-trip :confused:). The cheapest of the still feasible routes would be to fly into Frankfurt and out of Vienna or into Berlin and out of Frankfurt. For roughly $200 more, we could fly into Berlin and out of Vienna and keep ourselves completely contained within our "hubs", and for about $100 more than that, we could fly into Nuremberg and out of Vienna.

All three of these routes have their potential positives and negatives. Flying in or out of Frankfurt would allow us to potentially include Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, and Nuremberg in our itinerary, but the travel time would cause us to lose time in the "Big 3" cities. Flying in and out of Berlin and Vienna would minimize our travel time and maximize our time in/allow for day trips from the "Big 3" cities, but it would effectively eliminate any possibility of including the previously mentioned cities and their respective facilities. While flying into Nuremberg allows us time to explore Nuremberg and to visit the zoo there without losing too much time to travel, it is the most expensive option and would shorten out time in the "Big 3" cities and eliminate Karlsruhe and Stuttgart.

With all of that said, for those of you more familiar with Berlin, Prague, and Vienna, how long do you think is appropriate to spend in each city for a first time visitor to not feel too rushed while also being the most efficient with the time available?

Also, when previously talking about interests beyond zoos, I somehow forgot to mention natural history museums! How would you all say the natural history museums in the cities along our routes stack up against one another? Which ones are "must-sees" and which ones are more skippable if time doesn't allow?
Myself and my now fiancee did something similar back in 2023, we did six days in seven cities, being Berlin, Budapest, Cologne, Frankfurt, Prague, Vienna and Zurich and did four collections in total (I did try and sneak more in, however, I thought I was pushing my luck with four :p) and these were Berlin Zoo, Berlin Zoo Aquarium, Prague Zoo and Zoo Frankfurt. I visited all three Berlin collections back in 2019 and can say that Tierpark needs the most time, with a full day and a half day for any mop-ups required. Berlin Zoo and Berlin Zoo Aquarium can be done in a full day, provided you arrive at opening and leave when the zoo closes.

I'm not sure if it's something you've looked into, however, Flixbus are a really good option to explore if you're travelling through Europe. We cut costs on flights by using them to across countries and cities to our next location.
 
Now that we are definitely flying out of Frankfurt, we will have to see how we want to format the last day or two of our trip. Stuttgart is a big draw, with its historical stature, intriguing collection, and impressive gardens. Tierpark Oberwald is as well, being a very different facility than the others on our list, with a collection of new ungulates for me that I will miss elsewhere on the trip. It being free and without standard operating hours makes it a convenient stop either on the way from Stuttgart to Frankfurt or combined with the other Karlsruhe collections for a whole day. Frankfurt, itself, wasn't originally on my radar for this trip, but we will now have half a day before our flight out of Frankfurt, where it could be a possibility...

Given the probable routes in question, assuming that you will be heading towards Frankfurt from Prague, I would counsel you to do Stuttgart as a day-trip from Frankfurt and stay in the latter city for a few days. If you were to do the Karlsruhe collections, this should also be a daytrip from Frankfurt - however, I think that the Karlsruhe collections could be substituted for Frankfurt Zoo itself.... which would then allow you to slot the rather excellent natural history museum in Frankfurt into your final half day.

On a related note, if you end up staying in Frankfurt, do not stay near the main train station. It is one of the very, very few areas where I have felt profoundly unsafe during my own continental travels.

Vienna isn't the best place therefore. Bratislava, Brno, Hodonin or Györ are easily done day trips, and although i like at least some parts of these zoos, imo none of theme is worth to sacrifice a whole day from your point of view. Zlin (one of the most beautiful zoos in Europe) and Budapest are on a higher level, but for both of them you have a travel time from at least 3 hours each direction. So not sure if this is worth the stress.

I would tend to dispute much of this comment, it must be said :D there are plenty of worthwhile daytrips possible from Vienna, and moreover a few worthwhile half-day options. For instance, although I agree that Bratislava isn't worth a visit for the zoo, it *is* worth a visit for the old city centre.... and it is entirely possible to visit Bratislava in the afternoon after doing something in Vienna during the morning, before returning to the latter city in the evening.

As for Zlin, it is both readily doable as a daytrip from Vienna and - more importantly - definitely worth doing so. It must be noted that the journey is rather less arduous than @remar suggests, and doesn't take as long either. I recently provided @CGSwans with advice on this precise subject, and as a result have several maps and timetables at hand and ready to be shared if needed!

Regarding Prague. I only visited Prague as a day trip so i have no idea what is doable as a day trip. Maybe you should check if you want to use one day for a trip to Ceske Budejovice (the origin of the famous Budvar beer) and the nearby Zoo Hluboka (Ohrada) if it is doable. Zoo Hluboka isn't the brightest star of Czech zoos, but it is interesting if you want to see European animals. It has one of the best collections in terms of European birds and herps. It also has some nice mammals (European rabbit, souslik, alpine marmot, european moose, roe deer, west caucasian tur and himalayan brown bears). As the zoo is rather small, you will also have enough time to visit the historical city center of Ceske Budejovice.

Due to the train routes and schedules in question, this suggestion is a non-starter I think - I have done Zoo Hluboka as a day-trip from Prague (as a matter of fact, I got the news that Queen Elizabeth II had died when on my way back to Prague from the zoo!) but it required lengthy journeys with multiple changes of train, including tight connections. Certainly there wouldn't be time to also visit Ceske Budejovice given these factors.

It's definitely a nice zoo, and one generally worth visiting, but I suspect not nice enough or worthwhile enough to make the cut given the limits of the trip itinerary as a whole - Plzen and Dvur Kralove both are of higher priority.

If you're within Germany, they're also more likely to turn up than a Deutsche Bahn

Although the unreliability of DB is an extremely commonplace stereotype, I've never really had problems with the trains in Germany - certainly, Deutsche Bahn is more reliable than any of the trains here in the UK. The only *major* rail problem I have experienced on my travels was actually an OBB train in Austria, a few months ago :P
 
I am back almost a week later, and we finally have some solidified travel plans, with our flights and flexible train tickets now booked! The most time and cost effective flights ended up being into Vienna and out of Frankfurt, saving us two travel days and nearly $500. With that, we will officially be arriving in Vienna on the afternoon of 02 September and departing from Frankfurt on the evening of 17 September. We now just need to further fine tune how many days we want to spend in each major city and where we want to stop/take day trips along the way!

Have fun! It seems we will miss each other by about a week in both Vienna and Prague ;)

I have taken the liberty to draw up a basic schedule with my suggestions (mostly from above thread) tucked in

02/09 - Day 1: arrive in Vienna,
03/09 Day 2 - Haus des Meeres, cultural sights & hamster watching at Meidling graveyard
04/09 Day 3 - Tiergarten Schoenbrunn + Desert house + Palmenhaus + castle gardens
05/09 Day 4 - Natural History Museum & cultural sights
06/09 Day 5 - early train to Zlin, Zoo Zlin-Lesna, sleep in Zlin
07/09 Day 6 - Morning train to Prague, either a half day visit to Prague Zoo or culture
08/09 Day 7 - Zoo Prague
09/09 Day 8 - early morning tourist things in Prague - midday train to Dresden, Dresden historical city centre
10/09 Day 9 - Zoo Dresden + travel to Berlin (I would be tempted to squeeze in a visit to the small but excellent Tierpark Goerlitz, but this just doesn't fit)
11/09 Day 10 - Zoo Berlin
12/09 Day 11 - Tierpark Berlin
13/09 Day 12 - touristy things + Berlin Natural History Museum
14/09 Day 13 - Train to Leipzig, visit Zoo Leipzig, evening train to Nuremberg
15/09 Day 14 - Tiergarten Nuremberg, late afternoon train to Stuttgart
16/09 Day 15 - Wilhelma Stuttgart, late afternoon train to Karlsruhe, visit Tierpark Oberwald in early evening (sunset at 19:36, so arrive in Karlsruhe main station by 17:30 would suffice)
17/09 Day 16 - Train from Karlsruhe to Frankfurt, visit Zoo Frankfurt or Senckenberg Natural History Museum, depending on time and energy

Such a schedule would give you some time in each city to do non zoo stuff but not that much. So you would really need to prioritise what to do. It would also give you a fine selection of some of the very best European zoos. It also gives the option to make use of the generous opening hours of European zoos, Nuremberg opens at 08:00 and Wilhelma at 08:15, these early morning hours are often the most magical of a zoo visit. It also reduces traveling time by as much as possible and only the day of a visit to Zoo Leipzig + 2 long distance trains is one where the zoo visit might not be as long as hoped, though it still leaves plenty of time to see the whole zoo without stress.

In Vienna the Kunsthistorisches Museum is probably a must if you like European art and if you are into classical music trying to fit in a performance at the Musikverein, the heart of European classical music, is worth a short.

In Berlin for half a day I would suggest doing a walk from Berlin Hauptbahnhof (Hbf/main station) to Alexanderplatz via Unter den Linden. This gives you many highlights of Berlins central axis from the Reichstag, the holocaust monument to the many historical buildings along Unter den Linden. There is preciously little left of the Berlin Wall, but an evening visit to the East Side Gallery should be a must, even if it might be busy there. Alternatively the museum at Checkpoint Charlie or de DDR Museum give some interesting insights in that period, but you will be pressed for time.

If pressed for time one could opt to skip Dresden and travel directly to Berlin, to save you a day, the same is possible for Zlin. This could give you 2 days of breathing room which can be used on one of the following options:

- Zoo Plzen - if you are a species collector. Some fine botanical displays but people go here to see the huge amount of rarities, in not so special enclosures
- Zoo Dvur - a long daytrip from Prague, but a huge hoofstock collection and plenty of other rare African species.
- Visit to either Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen (on the outskirts of Berlin) or Weimar + Buchenwald concentration camp (between Leipzig & Nuremberg) if you want to spend some time exploring that part of European history too

I would prioritize Zlin over either zoo straight away, it is superior from an exhibitry standpoint and the bird collection of Zlin is very significant, especially when it comes to parrots, wading birds, birds of prey and hornbills + the most visible kiwi in Europe.

Dresden is a bit more complicated, as alluded above the zoo is not one of Europe's best, but it is a very solid and good zoo nonetheless and combined with the beautiful historic city centre makes for an alluding stop. If you have a love for modern European zoo architecture there are few better places to go (giraffe house, Brandeshaus, orangutan house) and the collection is not to be sniffed at, specializing in European birds, primates & predominantly Asian hoofstock. It is an archetypically European zoo, but one with overall high standards and very pleasant setting.

Now you approach Frankfurt from the south, but you could arguably also visit Walsrode - Burgers' Zoo - Cologne instead of Nuremberg - Stuttgart + Karlsruhe - Frankfurt. Frankfurt airport is only a 40 minute train ride away from Cologne. But it involves longer train journeys.
 
Although the unreliability of DB is an extremely commonplace stereotype, I've never really had problems with the trains in Germany - certainly, Deutsche Bahn is more reliable than any of the trains here in the UK.
Unfortunately, it's not a stereotype:
Deutsche Bahn punctuality drops to record low
The recent DB incidents at the UEFA Euro 2024 have only exemplified the issue. Too bad that the UK train system is apparently even worse.
The ÖBB on average is way more reliable, even though I prefer Westbahn.
 
I'm mostly with @lintworm's schedule.

But, day 15 with a visit to the Wilhelma, a train ride to Karlsruhe and a visit to Oberwald, hardly seems doable to me.
It is a zoo where you have to take time to see everything. You can't just run from one enclosure to another without taking time to enjoy the botanical gardens and old buildings.
Imo you need a full day there, especially on a first visit.
All you want to do after a full day of climbing and strolling in the Wilhelma is put your legs under the table in the evening and enjoy a good meal.

It need a 1-hour train journey from Stuttgart to Karlsruhe. 1 hour to get from the Wilhelma to the station, that's counting generously by metro (but: picking up luggage, 1 change from metro line 14, buy ticket), in Karlsruhe check in hotel (ample choice at the station but you quickly lose half an hour) or deposit luggage in station. And then a hefty walk to and into the Tierpark Oberwald. That's hard.

Choosing between the natural history museum and the zoo in Frankfurt seems like a no-brainer to me: the zoo and the Grzimeck House are too important to ignore.

I definitely agree with @TeaLovingDave regarding the security situation around Frankfurt central station: absolutely to be avoided.
 
It need a 1-hour train journey from Stuttgart to Karlsruhe. 1 hour to get from the Wilhelma to the station, that's counting generously by metro (but: picking up luggage, 1 change from metro line 14, buy ticket), in Karlsruhe check in hotel (ample choice at the station but you quickly lose half an hour) or deposit luggage in station. And then a hefty walk to and into the Tierpark Oberwald. That's hard.

That depends on how they travel, my assumption had been just using a small backpack (and depositing heavy items in a locker at the zoo), which is how I would do it ;). Anyway it would leave roughly 7.5 hours at Wilhelma, which is enough to see everything comfortably.

I think you are counting time extremely generously, it is an 8 minute U-bahn ride from the Wilhelma to the Staatsgalerie station, from which it is a ±10 minute walk to the train station. With all construction going on around the train station this is easily the fastest route.

Which means that even if you would want the 16:32 train to Karlsruhe (arrival 17:25), you would need to leave the Wilhelma at around 15:45 to be very comfortable. If arriving at Karlsruhe at 17:25, you could be at Oberwald in 35 minutes when walking steadily, leaving you with 2 hours of good light conditions for a visit, which is very generous, A long day for sure, but should be doable without rushing.
 
I lived in Karlsruhe for a few years and I do not think making the train trip from Stuttgart to Karlsruhe for Oberwald Park is worth it. I would strongly advice against it. Enjoy the full day in Wilhelma and if you still have energy left in the evening, go for a walk in the city. That’s more then enough for the day!
 
That depends on how they travel, my assumption had been just using a small backpack (and depositing heavy items in a locker at the zoo)
I wouldn't use the Wilhelma locker; in typical Swabian fashion, you have to pay for using it.
 
I hope you managed to take the best out of your European tour @Kudu21 !
But I am wondering - just as we speak Europe lost the Red Hartebeest, Apennine chamois, Bornean Bearded Pig, Slender-horned gazelle, Red-necked gazelle, Cape fox etc. Are you not going to try for the Mountain Anoa ? They are probably few left in Indonesia, but who knows...
 
Thank you all very much for the influx of additional advice and suggestions! I really cannot express how appreciative I am of all of the help in planning this trip. It all has made this process a thousand times easier.

So as to assist in trip planning.... precisely what is your arrival time in Vienna on your first day @Kudu21 ?
To address this important question right off the bat, we will be arriving in Vienna at 4:25pm.

I visited all three Berlin collections back in 2019 and can say that Tierpark needs the most time, with a full day and a half day for any mop-ups required. Berlin Zoo and Berlin Zoo Aquarium can be done in a full day, provided you arrive at opening and leave when the zoo closes.
I have heard this multiple times about the Tierpark; however, I just do not think I will be afforded that luxury on this trip, unfortunately (I, in fact, might even be more pressed for time, as I will likely have professional obligations at the Tierpark, as well (likewise for Prague)... Business and pleasure are never too far apart in this line of work :p) I am just going to have to try and make the most of one full day and hope that I can return again in the future.

I'm not sure if it's something you've looked into, however, Flixbus are a really good option to explore if you're travelling through Europe. We cut costs on flights by using them to across countries and cities to our next location.
While I have heard much about the potential unreliability of the German train network currently, we are going to have to plan ahead and take our chances and hope for the best with the trains. I get extremely motion sick on buses, so we ruled the Flixbuses out rather early on when considering our transportation options. I can usually pull through on short bus rides with some Dramamine ahead of time, but I do not really want to take my chances on a long-haul bus :p

I would tend to dispute much of this comment, it must be said :D there are plenty of worthwhile daytrips possible from Vienna, and moreover a few worthwhile half-day options. For instance, although I agree that Bratislava isn't worth a visit for the zoo, it *is* worth a visit for the old city centre.... and it is entirely possible to visit Bratislava in the afternoon after doing something in Vienna during the morning, before returning to the latter city in the evening.

Due to the train routes and schedules in question, this suggestion is a non-starter I think - I have done Zoo Hluboka as a day-trip from Prague (as a matter of fact, I got the news that Queen Elizabeth II had died when on my way back to Prague from the zoo!) but it required lengthy journeys with multiple changes of train, including tight connections. Certainly there wouldn't be time to also visit Ceske Budejovice given these factors.

It's definitely a nice zoo, and one generally worth visiting, but I suspect not nice enough or worthwhile enough to make the cut given the limits of the trip itinerary as a whole - Plzen and Dvur Kralove both are of higher priority.
As much as I appreciate @remar's suggestions of some smaller destinations within day trip distance from Prague, I think I will have to agree with @TeaLovingDave that they all might just be a little too out of the way for what they are within the grander scheme of the trip.

We have considered a trip to Bratislava for its historical city center as a possibility from Vienna if we find ourselves bored within our time there.

On a related note, if you end up staying in Frankfurt, do not stay near the main train station. It is one of the very, very few areas where I have felt profoundly unsafe during my own continental travels.
I definitely agree with @TeaLovingDave regarding the security situation around Frankfurt central station: absolutely to be avoided.
This is very good to know as we plan that portion of the trip! Thank you! Is getting from Franfurt's central station to the airport or destinations within the city still easy enough?

Given the probable routes in question, assuming that you will be heading towards Frankfurt from Prague, I would counsel you to do Stuttgart as a day-trip from Frankfurt and stay in the latter city for a few days. If you were to do the Karlsruhe collections, this should also be a daytrip from Frankfurt - however, I think that the Karlsruhe collections could be substituted for Frankfurt Zoo itself.... which would then allow you to slot the rather excellent natural history museum in Frankfurt into your final half day.
I'm mostly with @lintworm's schedule.

But, day 15 with a visit to the Wilhelma, a train ride to Karlsruhe and a visit to Oberwald, hardly seems doable to me.
It is a zoo where you have to take time to see everything. You can't just run from one enclosure to another without taking time to enjoy the botanical gardens and old buildings.
Imo you need a full day there, especially on a first visit.
All you want to do after a full day of climbing and strolling in the Wilhelma is put your legs under the table in the evening and enjoy a good meal.

It need a 1-hour train journey from Stuttgart to Karlsruhe. 1 hour to get from the Wilhelma to the station, that's counting generously by metro (but: picking up luggage, 1 change from metro line 14, buy ticket), in Karlsruhe check in hotel (ample choice at the station but you quickly lose half an hour) or deposit luggage in station. And then a hefty walk to and into the Tierpark Oberwald. That's hard.

Choosing between the natural history museum and the zoo in Frankfurt seems like a no-brainer to me: the zoo and the Grzimeck House are too important to ignore.

That depends on how they travel, my assumption had been just using a small backpack (and depositing heavy items in a locker at the zoo), which is how I would do it ;). Anyway it would leave roughly 7.5 hours at Wilhelma, which is enough to see everything comfortably.

I think you are counting time extremely generously, it is an 8 minute U-bahn ride from the Wilhelma to the Staatsgalerie station, from which it is a ±10 minute walk to the train station. With all construction going on around the train station this is easily the fastest route.

Which means that even if you would want the 16:32 train to Karlsruhe (arrival 17:25), you would need to leave the Wilhelma at around 15:45 to be very comfortable. If arriving at Karlsruhe at 17:25, you could be at Oberwald in 35 minutes when walking steadily, leaving you with 2 hours of good light conditions for a visit, which is very generous, A long day for sure, but should be doable without rushing.
I lived in Karlsruhe for a few years and I do not think making the train trip from Stuttgart to Karlsruhe for Oberwald Park is worth it. I would strongly advice against it. Enjoy the full day in Wilhelma and if you still have energy left in the evening, go for a walk in the city. That’s more then enough for the day!
The discourse surrounding Stuttgart - Karlsruhe - Frankfurt is an interesting one. @lintworm's route is what we have roughly outlined, currently (minus Zlin, as that was not originally on our radar), and his assumption on how we will be traveling are correct (we intend to travel very lightly - keeping to small backpacks, but bringing along a larger bag to bring things home in for which we will make use of the luggage lockers along the way [I know, @Batto, but we are American, so we are used to paying for every little thing anyways :p]), so I think we could still make it work using his advice. It might very well end up just being something that we have to figure out as it approaches based on how we're feeling, if we decide to spend more time elsewhere, etc. The biggest draw of Oberwald and Karlsruhe, in general, to me are the chamois and the Persian goitered gazelles (both would be new species for me), along with the general style of the park, which is very unique from an American perspective. When considered for a day, Karlsruhe just seemed to offer a "quieter" experience than the rest of the trip, which is packed with a lot bigger, more bustling cities. As iconic as the Grzimek House and Exotarium are for a zoo nerd like myself, I just do not know if spending more time in Frankfurt than necessary is ideal for my partner who is seeking more from this trip than just zoos :p Frankfurt just gives the impression of being much more of a generic city.

Now you approach Frankfurt from the south, but you could arguably also visit Walsrode - Burgers' Zoo - Cologne instead of Nuremberg - Stuttgart + Karlsruhe - Frankfurt. Frankfurt airport is only a 40 minute train ride away from Cologne. But it involves longer train journeys.
With the extended train travel along this route and just trying to keep my partner in mind, I think it will be best for us to stick to the southern route. We are considering a Paris to Amsterdam trip this time next year for his 30th birthday, and I fully intend to visit Burgers' at that time :p

As for Zlin, it is both readily doable as a daytrip from Vienna and - more importantly - definitely worth doing so. It must be noted that the journey is rather less arduous than @remar suggests, and doesn't take as long either. I recently provided @CGSwans with advice on this precise subject, and as a result have several maps and timetables at hand and ready to be shared if needed!
I would prioritize Zlin over either zoo straight away, it is superior from an exhibitry standpoint and the bird collection of Zlin is very significant, especially when it comes to parrots, wading birds, birds of prey and hornbills + the most visible kiwi in Europe.
Zlin is, honestly, a facility that was not even on my radar as a possibility before these suggestions! And one that I do not know nearly as much about. I will definitely have to explore the gallery and ZTL to learn more about it. How is Zlin as a city? Beyond the zoo, will it offer enough in sites, restaurants, etc. compared to other possible day trips to keep with my partner not accusing me of only wanting to visit zoos? :p

Have fun! It seems we will miss each other by about a week in both Vienna and Prague ;)
Thank you! And ugh, I know! It was so close... After we finalized our plans, I went back to earlier in the thread to check what dates you would be in the area and saw that we would just miss you! I had to push the trip up to the start of September because just as I am returning from my international adventure, I have to go back to work and help prepare some animals for international adventures of their own :p It would have been nice to meet up you! Perhaps on a future trip!

I have taken the liberty to draw up a basic schedule with my suggestions (mostly from above thread) tucked in

02/09 - Day 1: arrive in Vienna,
03/09 Day 2 - Haus des Meeres, cultural sights & hamster watching at Meidling graveyard
04/09 Day 3 - Tiergarten Schoenbrunn + Desert house + Palmenhaus + castle gardens
05/09 Day 4 - Natural History Museum & cultural sights
06/09 Day 5 - early train to Zlin, Zoo Zlin-Lesna, sleep in Zlin
07/09 Day 6 - Morning train to Prague, either a half day visit to Prague Zoo or culture
08/09 Day 7 - Zoo Prague
09/09 Day 8 - early morning tourist things in Prague - midday train to Dresden, Dresden historical city centre
10/09 Day 9 - Zoo Dresden + travel to Berlin (I would be tempted to squeeze in a visit to the small but excellent Tierpark Goerlitz, but this just doesn't fit)
11/09 Day 10 - Zoo Berlin
12/09 Day 11 - Tierpark Berlin
13/09 Day 12 - touristy things + Berlin Natural History Museum
14/09 Day 13 - Train to Leipzig, visit Zoo Leipzig, evening train to Nuremberg
15/09 Day 14 - Tiergarten Nuremberg, late afternoon train to Stuttgart
16/09 Day 15 - Wilhelma Stuttgart, late afternoon train to Karlsruhe, visit Tierpark Oberwald in early evening (sunset at 19:36, so arrive in Karlsruhe main station by 17:30 would suffice)
17/09 Day 16 - Train from Karlsruhe to Frankfurt, visit Zoo Frankfurt or Senckenberg Natural History Museum, depending on time and energy

Such a schedule would give you some time in each city to do non zoo stuff but not that much. So you would really need to prioritise what to do. It would also give you a fine selection of some of the very best European zoos. It also gives the option to make use of the generous opening hours of European zoos, Nuremberg opens at 08:00 and Wilhelma at 08:15, these early morning hours are often the most magical of a zoo visit. It also reduces traveling time by as much as possible and only the day of a visit to Zoo Leipzig + 2 long distance trains is one where the zoo visit might not be as long as hoped, though it still leaves plenty of time to see the whole zoo without stress.

In Vienna the Kunsthistorisches Museum is probably a must if you like European art and if you are into classical music trying to fit in a performance at the Musikverein, the heart of European classical music, is worth a short.

In Berlin for half a day I would suggest doing a walk from Berlin Hauptbahnhof (Hbf/main station) to Alexanderplatz via Unter den Linden. This gives you many highlights of Berlins central axis from the Reichstag, the holocaust monument to the many historical buildings along Unter den Linden. There is preciously little left of the Berlin Wall, but an evening visit to the East Side Gallery should be a must, even if it might be busy there. Alternatively the museum at Checkpoint Charlie or de DDR Museum give some interesting insights in that period, but you will be pressed for time.

If pressed for time one could opt to skip Dresden and travel directly to Berlin, to save you a day, the same is possible for Zlin. This could give you 2 days of breathing room which can be used on one of the following options:

- Zoo Plzen - if you are a species collector. Some fine botanical displays but people go here to see the huge amount of rarities, in not so special enclosures
- Zoo Dvur - a long daytrip from Prague, but a huge hoofstock collection and plenty of other rare African species.
- Visit to either Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen (on the outskirts of Berlin) or Weimar + Buchenwald concentration camp (between Leipzig & Nuremberg) if you want to spend some time exploring that part of European history too

Dresden is a bit more complicated, as alluded above the zoo is not one of Europe's best, but it is a very solid and good zoo nonetheless and combined with the beautiful historic city centre makes for an alluding stop. If you have a love for modern European zoo architecture there are few better places to go (giraffe house, Brandeshaus, orangutan house) and the collection is not to be sniffed at, specializing in European birds, primates & predominantly Asian hoofstock. It is an archetypically European zoo, but one with overall high standards and very pleasant setting.
Thank you so much for this incredibly detailed itinerary, with all of the additional information and suggestions. As I have already said, this order of cities was largely already our rough itinerary, so I imagine that this will very likely end up being very similar to our final itinerary. With that, this will be immensely helpful!

I hope you managed to take the best out of your European tour @Kudu21 !
But I am wondering - just as we speak Europe lost the Red Hartebeest, Apennine chamois, Bornean Bearded Pig, Slender-horned gazelle, Red-necked gazelle, Cape fox etc. Are you not going to try for the Mountain Anoa ? They are probably few left in Indonesia, but who knows...
Thank you, @twilighter! As painful as it is to know I will likely miss my only ever chance to see a living mountain anoa, from the beginning, I have recognized that Krefeld is just going to be too far out of the way to be feasible.
 
To address this important question right off the bat, we will be arriving in Vienna at 4:25pm.

This *may* allow you to visit Haus des Meeres on the evening of your arrival before you head to your hotel - depending on how promptly you leave the airport, of course - which would free up a little time for other Vienna activities on your other days in the city.

This is very good to know as we plan that portion of the trip! Thank you! Is getting from Franfurt's central station to the airport or destinations within the city still easy enough?

There are plenty of public transport connections which will allow you to get around the city without having to set foot outside the main train station, thanks to a very reliable U-Bahn network - and in fact, if you decided to spend your final night in Karlsruhe in order to allow some time in the city on the morning of your departure, omitting the zoo and museum in Frankfurt entirely (as you imply you are considering elsewhere in your comment), you will be able to get directly from Karlsruhe to the airport in Frankfurt, as the latter is served by a mainline train station.

Zlin is, honestly, a facility that was not even on my radar as a possibility before these suggestions! And one that I do not know nearly as much about. I will definitely have to explore the gallery and ZTL to learn more about it. How is Zlin as a city? Beyond the zoo, will it offer enough in sites, restaurants, etc. compared to other possible day trips to keep with my partner not accusing me of only wanting to visit zoos? :p

Zlin would, in all likelihood, be a more zoo-focused city - although I say this with the caveat that having always done it as a daytrip from Vienna I haven't been able to explore the city all that fully.

Looking at the itinerary suggested by @lintworm , and bearing in mind the fact you note it mirrors a lot of your plans quite closely, I think a few route and timing amendments to improve overall efficiency and permit a bit more leeway in Prague and/or Berlin are possible; I'll mull the issue over a little, and consult timetables for the timespan of your visit to get a better feel for any possible route closures or timetable amendments which would need to be taken into account.
 
While I have heard much about the potential unreliability of the German train network currently, we are going to have to plan ahead and take our chances and hope for the best with the trains. I get extremely motion sick on buses, so we ruled the Flixbuses out rather early on when considering our transportation options. I can usually pull through on short bus rides with some Dramamine ahead of time, but I do not really want to take my chances on a long-haul bus :p

It is a bit of hit and miss, last year I had 0 issues on 6 days of trains in Germany, the year before every single journey was impacted (though removing a WWII bomb in Koblenz was beyond the control of Deutshe Bahn...). Given you will travel outside of the holiday season, there will likely be somewhat less issues.

This is very good to know as we plan that portion of the trip! Thank you! Is getting from Franfurt's central station to the airport or destinations within the city still easy enough?

As @TeaLovingDave said if you end up skipping Frankfurt entirely there are direct trains to the airport from Karlsruhe. If you end up in Frankfurt anyway, you can walk from Hauptbahnhof to other places during day time with few issues or alternatively take the U-bahn or S-bahn to other parts of the city.

Frankfurt as a city, being the commercial capital of Germany, has more skyscrapers to offer than cultural sights :p. That is of course not quite true, there are a few pleasant areas, especially when you want to eat out. But in terms of historic buildings, they are around, but not that much.

Karlsruhe does have a fascinating looking castle + garden complex to dump your partner when you visit zoos and the natural history museum :p

Zlin is, honestly, a facility that was not even on my radar as a possibility before these suggestions! And one that I do not know nearly as much about. I will definitely have to explore the gallery and ZTL to learn more about it. How is Zlin as a city? Beyond the zoo, will it offer enough in sites, restaurants, etc. compared to other possible day trips to keep with my partner not accusing me of only wanting to visit zoos? :p

Zlin as a city would show you and your partner the true Czechia :p. I don't think there would be any tourists and what I have seen of the city isn't memorable. The zoo has a nice castle on its zoo grounds, that should be culture enough :P. Given Vienna, Leipzig, Dresden, Berlin, Nuremberg, Stuttgart & Karlsruhe all have enough culture on offer, he should be able to swallow a day with gaur, kiwi, gelada and piping hornbills :p

Thank you! And ugh, I know! It was so close... After we finalized our plans, I went back to earlier in the thread to check what dates you would be in the area and saw that we would just miss you! I had to push the trip up to the start of September because just as I am returning from my international adventure, I have to go back to work and help prepare some animals for international adventures of their own :p It would have been nice to meet up you! Perhaps on a future trip!
.

A shame, but if the Netherlands is to be your next trip there is a good chance we could meet then ;)

As for traveling streamlining, you could easily visit Leipzig after Dresden, but before Berlin and then take a direct train from Berlin to Nuremberg. There are 2 direct trains per hour from Berlin to Nuremberg, but some are noteworthy quicker as they don't stop in Leipzig.

When arriving at that time in Vienna, I wouldn't want to visit an aquarium, but rather go to bed :p. If you want to stretch your legs the large green park Prater (the park, not the theme park) is nice and if you combine it with the Hundertwasserhaus (a rather bizarre structure) nearby you will have seen an architectural highlight already :p
 
That is of course not quite true, there are a few pleasant areas, especially when you want to eat out. But in terms of historic buildings, they are around, but not that much.

Mind you, the same can be said (for rather different reasons) of Dresden, yet you specifically suggested it was worth visiting and staying overnight for "the historical city centre" :rolleyes::D
 
This is very good to know as we plan that portion of the trip! Thank you! Is getting from Franfurt's central station to the airport or destinations within the city still easy enough?

Take train line S8 or S9 from Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof towards Wiesbaden, and have a stop at the airport.


The discourse surrounding Stuttgart - Karlsruhe - Frankfurt is an interesting one. @lintworm's route is what we have roughly outlined, currently (minus Zlin, as that was not originally on our radar), and his assumption on how we will be traveling are correct (we intend to travel very lightly - keeping to small backpacks, but bringing along a larger bag to bring things home in for which we will make use of the luggage lockers along the way [I know, @Batto, but we are American, so we are used to paying for every little thing anyways :p]), so I think we could still make it work using his advice. It might very well end up just being something that we have to figure out as it approaches based on how we're feeling, if we decide to spend more time elsewhere, etc. The biggest draw of Oberwald and Karlsruhe, in general, to me are the chamois and the Persian goitered gazelles (both would be new species for me), along with the general style of the park, which is very unique from an American perspective. When considered for a day, Karlsruhe just seemed to offer a "quieter" experience than the rest of the trip, which is packed with a lot bigger, more bustling cities. As iconic as the Grzimek House and Exotarium are for a zoo nerd like myself, I just do not know if spending more time in Frankfurt than necessary is ideal for my partner who is seeking more from this trip than just zoos :p Frankfurt just gives the impression of being much more of a generic city.

Frankfurt is indeed a generic modern American-style city. Only the Römerberg in downtown Frankfurt with it's craftsman houses is worth seeing.

If you have for both Stuttgart and Karlsruhe an full day, that would be perfect.
And both cities are also worth visiting from a cultural point of view.
You will be pleased to have a full day in the Wilhelma without keeping an eye on your watch.

Then leave in the morning for Karlsruhe, there's a good hotel right at the entrance of the zoo were you can even eat in the evening. And it's litteraly a footstep to Karlsruhe's Hauptbahnhof, so no time is lost on city transport. So if they're not willing to take your luggage in deposit, you can use lockers in de railway station.
After (or before) the Oberwald, you can visit the city or the zoo, which is pleasant but not that special, barring its rainforest (which I personally love).
 
Zlin is, honestly, a facility that was not even on my radar as a possibility before these suggestions! And one that I do not know nearly as much about. I will definitely have to explore the gallery and ZTL to learn more about it.

It seems as if your plans are coming together nicely and there are many kind-hearted zoo nerds who have already offered an abundance of advice. I know that you follow my zoo trip threads and obviously you can look up information and reviews from my month-long 2019 Euro trek to see how I tackled the continent. Having two weeks or less, and a partner that won't want to be doing wall-to-wall zoos, means that obviously you will have to not overload them with captive animals. :p

However, just to stir things up a little, it appears that if you are in the vicinity then Zlin Zoo is a place for you to definitely visit. My zoo nerd friend John Tuson has written The Zoos of Great Britain and Ireland (2022) and has The Zoos of Germany (2024) coming out soon, and he surprised me with his latest text messages. John is at 450 zoos all-time and he loved Zlin and gave me permission to quote him here. "A very good zoo, and in many ways a great zoo. At its best - Gelada enclosure, elephant paddock, giant otters - it looks fantastic. A definite Top 15 in Europe, maybe even higher". With the Lesna Castle in the area, this zoo seems like one that would appeal to many visitors and Zlin has grown in leaps and bounds in the past few years. Maybe squeeze it into your itinerary?
 
Zlin as a city would show you and your partner the true Czechia :p. I don't think there would be any tourists and what I have seen of the city isn't memorable.

Sir, I cannot withstand this slander of Tomáš Baťa :mad::D In fact, his persona might be somewhat appealing to @Kudu21 I think...Though I am not really sure if it is possible to see both the zoo and city stuff in one day...
 
We are now less than one month away from this all becoming a reality! :D

This *may* allow you to visit Haus des Meeres on the evening of your arrival before you head to your hotel - depending on how promptly you leave the airport, of course - which would free up a little time for other Vienna activities on your other days in the city.
When arriving at that time in Vienna, I wouldn't want to visit an aquarium, but rather go to bed :p. If you want to stretch your legs the large green park Prater (the park, not the theme park) is nice and if you combine it with the Hundertwasserhaus (a rather bizarre structure) nearby you will have seen an architectural highlight already :p
We will have to see :p I am inclined to agree with @lintworm and expect that we might be rather too exhausted to try and squeeze in anything beyond dinner and a light stroll before going to bed :D

There are plenty of public transport connections which will allow you to get around the city without having to set foot outside the main train station, thanks to a very reliable U-Bahn network - and in fact, if you decided to spend your final night in Karlsruhe in order to allow some time in the city on the morning of your departure, omitting the zoo and museum in Frankfurt entirely (as you imply you are considering elsewhere in your comment), you will be able to get directly from Karlsruhe to the airport in Frankfurt, as the latter is served by a mainline train station.
As @TeaLovingDave said if you end up skipping Frankfurt entirely there are direct trains to the airport from Karlsruhe. If you end up in Frankfurt anyway, you can walk from Hauptbahnhof to other places during day time with few issues or alternatively take the U-bahn or S-bahn to other parts of the city.

Frankfurt as a city, being the commercial capital of Germany, has more skyscrapers to offer than cultural sights :p. That is of course not quite true, there are a few pleasant areas, especially when you want to eat out. But in terms of historic buildings, they are around, but not that much.

Karlsruhe does have a fascinating looking castle + garden complex to dump your partner when you visit zoos and the natural history museum :p
Take train line S8 or S9 from Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof towards Wiesbaden, and have a stop at the airport.

Frankfurt is indeed a generic modern American-style city. Only the Römerberg in downtown Frankfurt with it's craftsman houses is worth seeing.

If you have for both Stuttgart and Karlsruhe an full day, that would be perfect.
And both cities are also worth visiting from a cultural point of view.
You will be pleased to have a full day in the Wilhelma without keeping an eye on your watch.

Then leave in the morning for Karlsruhe, there's a good hotel right at the entrance of the zoo were you can even eat in the evening. And it's litteraly a footstep to Karlsruhe's Hauptbahnhof, so no time is lost on city transport. So if they're not willing to take your luggage in deposit, you can use lockers in de railway station.
After (or before) the Oberwald, you can visit the city or the zoo, which is pleasant but not that special, barring its rainforest (which I personally love).
This is all very helpful! Thank you all very much. Other than the visit to Wilhelma, I think a lot of this portion of the trip will remain pretty up in the air until it gets closer and we decide how we feel at the time, and this gives us a lot of options.

Looking at the itinerary suggested by @lintworm , and bearing in mind the fact you note it mirrors a lot of your plans quite closely, I think a few route and timing amendments to improve overall efficiency and permit a bit more leeway in Prague and/or Berlin are possible; I'll mull the issue over a little, and consult timetables for the timespan of your visit to get a better feel for any possible route closures or timetable amendments which would need to be taken into account.
As for traveling streamlining, you could easily visit Leipzig after Dresden, but before Berlin and then take a direct train from Berlin to Nuremberg. There are 2 direct trains per hour from Berlin to Nuremberg, but some are noteworthy quicker as they don't stop in Leipzig
Thank you, @TeaLovingDave, I would greatly appreciate that! And thank you @lintworm for the suggestion of going from Dresden to Leipzig instead of from Berlin to Leipzig to take advantage of the direct trains from Berlin to Nuremberg. I do think this will both streamline our travel, but also decongest the back end of the trip a little more.

Zlin would, in all likelihood, be a more zoo-focused city - although I say this with the caveat that having always done it as a daytrip from Vienna I haven't been able to explore the city all that fully.
Zlin as a city would show you and your partner the true Czechia :p. I don't think there would be any tourists and what I have seen of the city isn't memorable. The zoo has a nice castle on its zoo grounds, that should be culture enough :p. Given Vienna, Leipzig, Dresden, Berlin, Nuremberg, Stuttgart & Karlsruhe all have enough culture on offer, he should be able to swallow a day with gaur, kiwi, gelada and piping hornbills :p
However, just to stir things up a little, it appears that if you are in the vicinity then Zlin Zoo is a place for you to definitely visit. My zoo nerd friend John Tuson has written The Zoos of Great Britain and Ireland (2022) and has The Zoos of Germany (2024) coming out soon, and he surprised me with his latest text messages. John is at 450 zoos all-time and he loved Zlin and gave me permission to quote him here. "A very good zoo, and in many ways a great zoo. At its best - Gelada enclosure, elephant paddock, giant otters - it looks fantastic. A definite Top 15 in Europe, maybe even higher". With the Lesna Castle in the area, this zoo seems like one that would appeal to many visitors and Zlin has grown in leaps and bounds in the past few years. Maybe squeeze it into your itinerary?
Sir, I cannot withstand this slander of Tomáš Baťa :mad::D In fact, his persona might be somewhat appealing to @Kudu21 I think...Though I am not really sure if it is possible to see both the zoo and city stuff in one day...
Zlin does, indeed, appear to be quite the fantastic collection; however, its relative remoteness was too tough of a sell for my partner :p So I will, unfortunately, have to stick a pin in Zlin and save it for later. That extra day will be used for a closer day trip, a stop in the Bohemian Switzerland National Park on our way from Prague to Dresden for a bit of the great outdoors currently absent from this trip's itinerary, or just an extra day to tack on to another city, all depending on weather and how we feel at the time.

I know that these things have been discussed numerous times on numerous threads over the years, but if anyone has any particular tips and tricks or suggested best routes for the collections on our itinerary [Schönbrunn, Haus des Meeres, Prague, (Plzen?), Dresden, Leipzig, the Berlins, Nuremberg, Wilhelma, (the Karlsruhe collections?), (Frankfurt?)], I would greatly appreciate them! I've been studying the maps recently (some are certainly more helpful than others...) and reviewing other threads, but I'll always take as much information and advice as I can :)
 
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