Port Lympne Wild Animal Park Port lympne: cats

Continuing with Barbary Lions.

There is a link on Port Lympne's facebook page to a short video of the new 'Barbary' Lioness at Port Lympne, now living with her partner 'Milo' who was born there. The stated intention is obviously to breed from them and they also say their Lions have 'genetic' markers that prove they contain Barbary blood (note phrasing here- not saying 'pure' Barbary)

I am still a little puzzled why Milo's father 'Suliman' was castrated, the reason given being to prevent over-representation of his genes- yet they are now going to breed from his son instead. The new female from Madrid is obviously from a different bloodline though I believe Madrid's stock also originated from Rabat in Morocco, but from an earlier date to most of the other European imports.
 
Pertinax said:
There is a link on Port Lympne's facebook page to a short video of the new 'Barbary' Lioness at Port Lympne, now living with her partner 'Milo' who was born there. The stated intention is obviously to breed from them and they also say their Lions have 'genetic' markers that prove they contain Barbary blood (note phrasing here- not saying 'pure' Barbary)
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They really don't want to let go of the "Barbary myth" do they?:)
 
Shorts said:
They really don't want to let go of the "Barbary myth" do they?:)
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I'm not sure if they are clinging to the myth, or if this information has come from newer/more updated research or tests I don't know about. If its the former though, it seems a bit odd for them to encourage yet more breeding.
 
Even if the genetic evidence suggests they're not pure bred barbary, the discovery of important barbary alleles may make it worth the effort of trying to breed them again. Even without an animal being purebred, you can still back breed to almost create an extinct subspecie again - this is currently being done with aurochs on a limit success scale.

of course it could just be that they pull in crowds, given that the visitor numbers following the dubious redevelopment of the park this year have not massively gone up as planned.
 
Just to clear it up, Saffiya and Suliman have five cubs who still live at Port Lympne, they are:

1.1 Milo and Savannah born 15th August 2005. (1.0 Moonlight now in Germany also in this litter)
0.1 Samira born 10/07/03.
0.2 Aswad and Buni born 08/06/07.

They may have had more cubs but the five at Port Lympne are some of there offspring. Is Layla and Jabir there cubs?
 
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leiclad20 said:
Even without an animal being purebred, you can still back breed to almost create an extinct subspecie again - this is currently being done with aurochs on a limit success scale.
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No you can't, it goes against basic genetics, A + A cannot = B. All you're creating is a succession of A's that look more and more like B's. They are still genetically A's. It'd be quicker and save resources (for arguable better uses) to affix big polystyrene horns to some muscular dark cattle for Auochs or paint some "zoo" lions to look like "Barbary's".

leiclad20 said:
of course it could just be that they pull in crowds, given that the visitor numbers following the dubious redevelopment of the park this year have not massively gone up as planned.
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I think most of the public just want to see a Lion and the concept of Barbary's makes no difference. The story does justify the Aspinall collections stance though. Why they have the stance I am unsure (romanticism? bloody mindedness? genuine belief?).
 
Jordan-Jaguar97 said:
0.2 Aswad and Buni born 08/06/07.

They may have had more cubs but the five at Port Lympne are some of there offspring. Is Layla and Jabir there cubs?
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This is the litter I wasn't aware of. I am not sure whom Layla and Jabir's parents were or if they were born at PL, but I think they were so are related to the others.
 
Shorts said:
The story does justify the Aspinall collections stance though. Why they have the stance I am unsure (romanticism? bloody mindedness? genuine belief?).
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I think when Port Lympne acquired their first 'Barbary' Lions (from Washington Zoo, but born in Rabat, Morroco AFAIK,) in circa 1980's era, they were still in zoological circles generally regarded to be (at least partially) of original North African stock. Since then the science seems to have overtaken that theory and points towards this not being the case, though as Port Lympne still maintain their Lions contain genetic markers of Barbary Lions, perhaps this is the result of yet more recent research- or is it just wishful/outdated thinking?:confused:
 
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It's interesting to note that both Aspinall parks have pulled the Valentine's day stunt again:rolleyes: I believe the female Snow leopard who they hope can bred is only turning two in three months time. The Barbary Lioness 'Ruti' was born in 2000 at Madrid Zoo, I was speaking to a friend who lives near Madrid Zoo and visits regularly, he mentioned that if she did have cubs it'd be her first litter, for many years Ruti lived with parents, sister and an (Unrelated?) female. She's turning twelve in October, so if they want cubs they'd better start breeding now.
 
Pertinax said:
Their website 'tallies' are sometimes well out of date.

From memory there are;

Suliman, Samira & Savanah(female cub) in the bottom enclosure.

Milo- male in Pine tree area, now with
Saffiya?- crippled female(his older sister)
A new female is arriving for him soon I believe.

Additional pair- Jabir & a female (name starts with L or T.)

That's only seven currently by my count.:confused:

In recent years they have lost Kabir(to Longleat) old females Jade(died?) Juma(died?) and the male Moonlight who was sent to Hanover.
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They did also loose a trio which went to Belfast, they must have been brother and sister (Half) they were all born in 2003. Not to mention other female 'Aiesha' mother of one of Qays the male at Belfast and Layla. It'd be five years since PL had the last Barbary cubs, I know there hoping for them, but with Ruti getting on a bit, who knows.
 
Jordan-Jaguar97 said:
she did have cubs it'd be her first litter, for many years Ruti lived with parents, sister and an (Unrelated?) female. She's turning twelve in October, so if they want cubs they'd better start breeding now.
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I hadn't realised this female was this age already. If she lived with her father but hasn't bred at Madrid, indications are that one or other was contracepted. If it was her, it could delay any breeding further still- they had this problem at PL when trying to breed them in the past(before Saffiya was born) after contracepting the females for some time.
 
Pertinax said:
I hadn't realised this female was this age already. If she lived with her father but hasn't bred at Madrid, indications are that one or other was contracepted. If it was her, it could delay any breeding further still- they had this problem at PL when trying to breed them in the past(before Saffiya was born) after contracepting the females for some time.
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I had just realized that her actual age had been posted. For a first litter for a female Lion they tend to have them at four or five. African lionessess have them later on and can carry on breeding for a number of years. Luna and Gillian (Longleat and Blackpool respectively) both had cubs once they reached 10. Plus if Ruti does have a litter, it is possible she may not know what to do being a first time mother.
 
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