Port Lympne Wild Animal Park Port Lympne Wild Animal Park giving up Asian breeding program ?

[Kifaru Bwana]

Realistically, we are talking rumours here. Port Lympne has opened up all available holding space for its black rhino breeding programme and can potentially keep up to 25 blacks.

The former Sumatran rhino paddock has been remodelled to give a world class Malayan tapir breeding complex. Port Lympne has Malayans from Indonesia straight and quite valuable for the EEP breeding programme.

Why reduce both programmes for a fancy Javan rhino ....?

I further would want to draw your attention to the state of affairs in the wild:
1. Java Javan rhino Rhinoceros sondaicus sondaicus
* an estimated 50-60 rhinos in Ujung Kulon NP, after a stagnant late 1990's new camera trapping has revealed at least 5 calves in the last 3 years. With a strong Century Badak Indonesia Conservation Programme in place, 3 RPU's, good monitoring and habitat modification and competitior species reduction and strong local rangers presence the population may grow up to 70. The goal is to have captive holding facility by 2008, a newly identified and large protected area to establish a second population of Javan rhino by 2009 and a relocation of the first few Javan rhino to the second national park in 2010. Scope for Javan rhino to captive locations outside their natural habitat are next to 0,0.

2. mainland Javan rhino Rhinoceros sondaicus annamiticus
* A mere 4-6 rhinos in Nam Cat Tien NP. Sub-optimal protection within the reserve, large scale habitat enchroachment coupled with very few sightings of the Javan rhino at all. The monitoring programme also uses camera trapping, but the ranger presence is a lot smaller compared to Ujung Kulon. Scope for Javan rhino to captive location even less than 0,0.

Let us just stick with Eastern black rhinos and Malayan tapirs instead ....

What plans for the near future in Howletts and or Port Lympne? Any ideas?

 

[Pertinax]

no matter how different we think it might be if they imported some Javan rhino, from the point of view of a country allowing this animal to be caught and flown to England, P.L. kind of blew it with the Sumatrans. It was a costly exercise and although the failiure of the program may have been beyond their control, I don't think they will act as pioneers for another large mammal in this way.
I've often wondered why they don't keep greater one-horned, although the sumatran rhino house is now the best malayan tapir facility in the UK and slightly too small for any pachyderm bigger than a sumatran rhino, but there is plenty of paddock space lower down the site, or what would be amazing is a rhino-proof fence round the Howletts asian deer park.

Yes, they did kind of blow it by failing with the Sumatran rhinos. I do think the failure was beyond their control rather- the first female didn't last more than a couple of months, the second was probably past breeding age. And in one way they did succeed- while the USA Sumatran rhinos were all dying from starvation until it was finally found they would eat ficus, the Port Lympne pair(Torgamba & Meranti) appeared to have no health or dietary problems in this way.

If they kept G.I Rhino I think it would be at Port Lympne and in new purpose built enclosures- the Tapir/Sumatran rhino area isn't really practical for such huge animals. I'd hate to see the very attractive Asian deer/antelope paddock at Howletts converted for rhinos- its one of the most attractive animal exhibits I know of in the Uk. They do keep all their big animals like eles and rhinos out of sight of the mansion as I don't think they wish to spoil the aesthetically pleasing 'vista' of that main parkland area.

Regarding Javans- its just a recurring rumour I know and yes, very unlikely to happen. However, I reiterate my belief that they wouldn't be difficult to keep- Adelaide had one for 20+ years- no problems keeping it alive it seems.

 

[MARK]

Yes, they did kind of blow it by failing with the Sumatran rhinos. I do think the failure was beyond their control rather- the first female didn't last more than a couple of months, the second was probably past breeding age. And in one way they did succeed- while the USA Sumatran rhinos were all dying from starvation until it was finally found they would eat ficus, the Port Lympne pair(Torgamba & Meranti) appeared to have no health or dietary problems in this way.

Thats correct. the first female had a bad leg wound from a poachers snare and the second was not a young animal.

port Lypmne had tropical friut flown in every few day at a huge cost and even their evening feed had pineapple juice poured over it, they gave them the red carpet treatment, there indoor housing was better than the one in the US

 

[johnstoni]

I'd hate to see the very attractive Asian deer/antelope paddock at Howletts converted for rhinos- its one of the most attractive animal exhibits I know of in the Uk. They do keep all their big animals like eles and rhinos out of sight of the mansion as I don't think they wish to spoil the aesthetically pleasing 'vista' of that main parkland area.

Ah, I don't know, a subtle ha-ha and a house tucked away down by the elephants, they could run with the deer and not ruin the grass in such a vast enclosure. Kind of like the cotswold enclosure but bigger and with more trees. Plus the kudu don't really need that other paddock....

 

[Pertinax]

Ah, I don't know, a subtle ha-ha and a house tucked away down by the elephants, they could run with the deer and not ruin the grass in such a vast enclosure. Kind of like the cotswold enclosure but bigger and with more trees. Plus the kudu don't really need that other paddock....

Yes, it could work like that, but I do like that old style paling fencing surrounding the enclosure- plus the rhinos might rub against the lovely old sweet Chesnut trees(which no doubt have tree protection orders on them) and damage them!!!

Actually, GI rhinos seem harder on their enclosures than e.g. whites or blacks and tend to turn them more quickly into a quagmire. If you look at the similar sized large Indian rhino paddocks at Whipsnade, the areas near the sheds and yards are very bare and churned up, with well worn paths radiating outwards into the grass paddocks.

I'd prefer to see them at Port Lympne- the WaterBuffalo area on the low flat ground would be ideal...

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I agree ... the accusation that Port Lympne blew it with Sumatran rhinos is truly unjust. Let's face it Port Lympne started the entire project in the first place (and not by popular opinion US based zoos). Furthermore, before acquiring their Sumatran rhinos PL did everything it could possibly do to replicate as closely as possible their rainforest environment back in SE Asia. PL even went to great lengths to establish close links with Indonesian conservation authorities early on.

Like Pertinax and others have already stated the health or upkeep of Sumatran rhinos at PL was never implicated in any premature deaths. The first (prospectively a good candidate for breeding as she was quite young) female that arrived was injured and died from complications associated with these. The second female that was eventually imported was already well advanced in age when she arrived and may even have been post reproductive already. No surprise that any breeding behavior with Torgamba did not have the desired net result. When only Torgamba was left at PL, JAF had the foresight to have him shipped back to Indonesia as a contribution towards their in situ captive-breeding project.

Actually, JAF is quite finely tuned into any Indonesia captive-breeding and conservation project they become involved with. They have singlehandedly developped the Schmutzer Center for Primates in Jakarta into a model for great ape and leaf-eating primates in Indonesia. Slowly, the tarmac is being changed in their favour and now Ragunan Zoo has also joined ISIS ....!

 

[Yassa]

While the idea of starting a breeding program for such an endangered species as the sumatran rhino was surely a god one, I think some fundamental mistakes were made from the beginning, and the biggest one was dividing the few rhinos in pairs and moving them to different zoos on different continents...

It is very well known from other rhino species that the individuals are often incompartible, and infertility is also a very well known problem, and keeping them just in pairs made it next to impossible to switch partners. Especially if - like in case of Port Lympne - the next sumatran rhino was 10+ hours in airplane away. They should have concentrated all animals in 2 (western) zoos from the beginning, that would have greatly imporved breeding opportunities. Torgamba may well have sired a calf in his younger years...

But given that many animals were already old when captured and that knowledge about sumatran rhino reproduction and nutrition was basically non-exist, I am not convinced that it had made a difference.

 

[Pertinax]

. The first (prospectively a good candidate for breeding as she was quite young) female that arrived was injured and died from complications associated with these. The second female that was eventually imported was already well advanced in age when she arrived and may even have been post reproductive already. No surprise that any breeding behavior with Torgamba did not have the desired net result. When only Torgamba was left at PL, JAF had the foresight to have him shipped back to Indonesia as a contribution towards their in situ captive-breeding project.

I didn't know the first female was a young animal. That makes it all the more ironic that she died so soon- otherwise she and Torgamba could well have formed a successful beeding pair- who knows?

Port Lympne certainly kept them in excellent condition without any problem. My only critisism was how long it took for Torgamba to be returned 'home' after the 2nd female died- but maybe it only became clear after a long period that another(3rd) female couldn't be obtained which I expect they tried for. Of course this is all in the long past now but still interesting to reflect on.

 

[Pertinax]

and the biggest one was dividing the few rhinos in pairs and moving them to different zoos on different continents...
... They should have concentrated all animals in 2 (western) zoos from the beginning, that would have greatly imporved breeding opportunities. Torgamba may well have sired a calf in his younger years...

But given that many animals were already old when captured and that knowledge about sumatran rhino reproduction and nutrition was basically non-exist, I am not convinced that it had made a difference.

Agree on all counts. The main problem seems that this species is/was so much harder to keep and manage successfully in captivity, let alone breed, that most places that received them were just totally unprepared for the problems.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Agree on all counts. The main problem seems that this species is/was so much harder to keep and manage successfully in captivity, let alone breed, that most places that received them were just totally unprepared for the problems.

In hindsight it probably was not a particularly good idea to have all these different zoos so spread out over different contintents involved in the breeding programme.

I agree that perhaps only Cincinnati and PL should have been involved with the Sumatrans and all other rhinos should have stayed in situ in Indonesia or Malaysia. The western zoos would advise on basic rhino management and provide the scientific and financial backbone to the project, whereas the Indonesian and Malaysian zoos would have been environmentally and nutritionally right.

It is sad that PL pulled out of the project later on, as their perspective on the entire Sumatran rhino conservation breeding was more geared towards a participatory approach than the big intercontinental transports that followed when the SSP took over.

But as I said before .. that is all in hindsight.


I do believe though that in particular Cincinnati Zoo produced some fundamental work in Sumatran rhino breeding that may now assist with breeding efforts in situ. For Way Kambas I wish another male and female woud be acquired that are from at risk areas to really give several breeding options (Torgamba is really already fairly old, so that may comprimise his breeding capacities). Similarly, I do hope that in time Suci in Cincinnati will acquire a bull mate ... (as the actual mating game seems an integral part to stimulating ovulation in the reproductive female).

 

[Pertinax]

I do believe though that in particular Cincinnati Zoo produced some fundamental work in Sumatran rhino breeding that may now assist with breeding efforts in situ. For Way Kambas I wish another male and female woud be acquired that are from at risk areas to really give several breeding options (Torgamba is really already fairly old, so that may comprimise his breeding capacities). Similarly, I do hope that in time Suci in Cincinnati will acquire a bull mate ... (as the actual mating game seems an integral part to stimulating ovulation in the reproductive female).

Absolutely. I think it would be ideal if Way Kambas was able to add one more male and female, and Cincinnati could receive a young mature bull. Then there might be a real hope of setting up a viable captive breeding group between these two locations.

 

[dragon(ele)nerd]

if there was any chance of Javans coming into captivity, i think Singapore would be the ideal holding zoo for them, with climate and finance playing major roles.

Javan Rhino's would be amazing to have in a zoo but there are only about 75 individuals inculding the Vietnam species so it would be strange to have such a rare species.

 

[Coquinguy]

i agree that if a zoo outside indonesia was going to be used as a staging centre for establishing an ex-situ javan rhino program than singapore zoo would be a good choice. Cincinatti Zoo, San Diego, Taronga Zoo and Howletts would, I think make good centres for holding additional animals because of their experiences in breeding endangered rhinos, and in the case of Taronga/WPZ and Cincinatti their work on assisted reproduction.
However, with the population in the wild at such a critical low I think an ex-situ program should only be established if it posed minimal risk to the wild population, especially in terms of demographics and genetics.

 

[taun]

However, with the population in the wild at such a critical low I think an ex-situ program should only be established if it posed minimal risk to the wild population, especially in terms of demographics and genetics.

I agree completely. I just wondered whether anyone thought of bringing the smaller population (I think this is the mainland population) into captivity (5-7 individuals) as this population has no future in the long term.

Using these individuals as a way of studying them, to help there wild counterparts and hopefully breed a few.