I mean, he hasn't let genetic purity or origin stop him when it comes to rewilding in the past....
Fair point
Port Lympne Wild Animal Park Port Lympne Wild Animal Park News 2024
- Thread starter Smaggledagle
- Start date
Fair point
Thanks for the information. It’s a big shame they’re prioritising other areas instead of new homes for apes.
Yes, it’s extremely disrespectful to their colleagues in Zurich. But the Aspinall’s have history of antagonising other institutions
For Port Lympne its a 'rescue'- for Zurich its simply a transfer... its probable Zurich just had to swallow the negative inference in order to rehouse these two males- the Zurich cages do look very small and outdated and they obviously needed to move these nearly adult two males on as they have quite a sizeable group. They will certainly have a lot more room in the PL enclosure. Orangutans sometimes don't move to a new zoo very easily and take time to settle down- the short video shows them both looking rather nervous together on one hammock and rather reluctant to leave this first little bit of security- fairly classic behaviour. But they should start exploring soon.
For once I think future rehabilitation to the wild might be no bad thing if they can achieve it- that's unless they want to breed them, by letting just one of these two males go 'home' and bringing in a female(s) to replace him. The chance of them being anything but pure Sumatran(i.e. Tapanuli) is absolutely minimal. According to the 2015 studbook Zurich had (then) about 10 Orangutans including these two 2nd/3rd generation males also born in the zoo.
From the 2015 SB there are about 10 in total. Two trios- an older set and a younger set, which includes the two mothers (themselves born in Zurich) of these halfbrothers. Then a couple more young females also- so 10-2= 8 probably -unless any more births since, which is quite likely.
I imagine Wingham are rather grinding their teeth over this. After all they did have the only Orangutans in Kent as a drawcard, but not anymore....
Chimpanzees have been exhibited at both Howletts and Port Lympne.
See the link below for discussion about Aspinall's chimps.
Bustah the chimpanzee and the old chimp group [Port Lympne Wild Animal Park]
I’m amazed there’s no photos on the PL media page of the chimps, even hard to come by if you go through a search engine. However, Bustah does come up an awful lot in the News feeds!
I remember Bustah being on the front cover of the PL zoo guide (looking rather ominously towards the camera!). I’m sure he passed away a few years ago.
I remember Bustah being on the front cover of the PL zoo guide (looking rather ominously towards the camera!). I’m sure he passed away a few years ago.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
I’m amazed there’s no photos on the PL media page of the chimps, even hard to come by if you go through a search engine. However, Bustah does come up an awful lot in the News feeds!
I remember Bustah being on the front cover of the PL zoo guide (looking rather ominously towards the camera!). I’m sure he passed away a few years ago.
There is a bit of a habit of making chimps look homicidal in zoo pictures - some of the ones on the way down to Dudley’s chimp house are crazy. As photos they are great as poses they look like the chimps spend the whole day biting peoples faces off.
Chimps are obviously highly dangerous but there is a bit of a narrative about Orangs peaceful kittens and chimps super nasty that can influence visitor perception and ‘popularity’ in terms of long term holders for chimps in zoos.
Strathmorezoo
Well-Known Member
With regard to the photos of Dudley chimps, if any are of. Pepe the last Alpa male, yes,he would have enjoyed biting off people's faces, he was a horror
After I wrote this I realised they have in fact been at Port Lympne a couple(?) of months already
in quarantine. I presume they have access, or will do, to the 'tower' cage that originally held the chimps. But in the short video they do still look rather cautious of everything where they are at present, which I presume is now the enclosure 'below' the tower ?
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With regards to the 'rescue' aspect of the orangutans - It has been reported that Zurich were told to euthanize them by the regional association (as the same with male gorillas) and instead sent them to Port Lympne.
That sounds like complete bullsh*t. I don't even think anyone has euthanized healthy surplus gorilla males.
Baringogiraffe12
Well-Known Member
I was told they came from Hemsley.
No, but it has been proposed as a potential solution to capacity issues that are being faced. Thankfully, castration trials have gone well, allowing such males to be kept within their family groups.
These two male Sumatran orangutans were indeed potentially going to be euthanised as a population control measure (i.e. culled), so in that respect I suppose PL have “rescued them” and join Chester and Jersey Zoos as the only UK holders of the species. I believe that they are being housed in the old chimp cage. As we know bachelor groups of male gorillas have largely been a successful solution to the surplus issue, but is not something that has been successfully trialed in orangs to my knowledge (albeit these two are related). Probably to do with gorillas being a far more social ape, compared to generally solitary oranugtans. Unluckily for Zurich, their breeding male died shortly after exporting the two brothers.
It was tried/trialled some years ago somewhere in Southern Europe though I can't remember where. It may have been Rio Safari Elche. 3 males were kept together as a group but it eventually disintegrated through fighting. Being so territorial adult males will not normally tolerate each other.
My guess is these two would still have both been surplus even after the breeding male( their father?) died as they will want to replace him with a new unrelated one. From what is being said it does seem increasingly likely it was a genuine 'rescue'.
Bachelor groups of orangutans have been kept in multiple zoos like Bratislava, Sosto, Fuengirola for multiple years. It sounds reminiscent of Bratislava which kept a pair of brothers from Prague for 6 years before starting a breeding group.
Is there any evidence that they were going to be potentially culled? Yes they were surplus at Zurich (but they have space in the former chimpanzee enclosure to keep them there for years, even if under mediocre circumstances), but no "culling" of great apes has ever taken place to my knowledge (except extremely young orphans). So it would be a huge and controversial step. With gorillas it had been a discussion for years and nothing happened in the end as other methods were found. For orangutans nothing of such an discussion can even be found anywhere. It still sounds like a PR stunt to me. I would be curious if ownership was actually transferred from Zurich to Port Lympne, which would impact any "rewilding" attempt....
Fuengirola was where I was thinking of....they were unrelated Bornean males but I think longterm it failed overall. Of course its different with related ones, they have more of a bond together. These two halfbrothers clearly do as most video shows them hugging etc and a strange/unfamiliar environment reinforces that too. I also presume Zurich(or EEP) retains their ownership and would have to give permission for any rewilding attempt.
Garcher666
Member
Went to Lympne on Tuesday, no sign of the Orangutans who probably preferred the warmth of the house but the new Maned wolves where loving life. Also with the Lympne enclosure it can be split into 2 separate enclosures I believe both with there own separate houses available (all be it they seem to be in the one to the left instead of the tall one on the right currently)
I take it you are referring to the Orangutans here, not the maned wolves...there is plenty of space in that enclosure to seperate them if need be but at present they obviously need/rely on each other's company. I presume they are living in the simple'pavilion' that is nearest the large outdoor area, which they will have access to in due course. The previous male gorillas have moved down to the roundhouse enclosure where the last of the older bachelor males, Djimu. was living on his own.
Whereabouts are the Maned Wolves?