Just to warn you I've passed by there trying to get a sneaky peak and it involves an unpaved access lane that barely meets the definition of "road"! If you're local I'm sure you know the type
Leopard and Goat Farm Private Collection in Cornwall
- Thread starter Marcellus
- Start date
Believe it or not we actually agree here, if donations have been made in promise of a tour I would hope that agreement is honoured. I made a donation myself to said collection, but not a large enough one that would guarantee me a look round specifically because I was aware of how long it had been since the ‘open days coming soon’ post had been put on the website.
And again, for hopefully the last time, I don’t have any issues with speculation about what he has, so long as it’s through the proper avenues (I.e. what he chooses to release). Waiting for any job advert to come up on Indeed or Zoo News Digest to see if the species list has changed, looking into licensing online and writing theories about what that might mean, and in the case of the one user (and I’m sure others in the area too) highlighted up thread actually physically trying to peek in from outside...I just can’t imagine, based on what I’ve heard about the owner and how much he values being able to control what aspects about his collection he chooses to reveal to the public, that it is doing anyone any favours.
I’m not suggesting we stop talking about his collection, on the contrary. I’m asking that things he himself hasn’t put into the public eye be respected, as I’m sure anyone else here would want too!
Feel free to ignore me, I know you largely do, but some of the posts in this thread aren’t doing anyone here any favours in guaranteeing them a tour of the place, I’m pretty sure
Believe it or not we actually agree here, if donations have been made in promise of a tour I would hope that agreement is honoured. I made a donation myself to said collection, but not a large enough one that would guarantee me a look round specifically because I was aware of how long it had been since the ‘open days coming soon’ post had been put on the website.
And again, for hopefully the last time, I don’t have any issues with speculation about what he has, so long as it’s through the proper avenues (I.e. what he chooses to release). Waiting for any job advert to come up on Indeed or Zoo News Digest to see if the species list has changed, looking into licensing online and writing theories about what that might mean, and in the case of the one user (and I’m sure others in the area too) highlighted up thread actually physically trying to peek in from outside...I just can’t imagine, based on what I’ve heard about the owner and how much he values being able to control what aspects about his collection he chooses to reveal to the public, that it is doing anyone any favours.
I’m not suggesting we stop talking about his collection, on the contrary. I’m asking that things he himself hasn’t put into the public eye be respected, as I’m sure anyone else here would want too!
Feel free to ignore me, I know you largely do, but some of the posts in this thread aren’t doing anyone here any favours in guaranteeing them a tour of the place, I’m pretty sure
I don't know why you think I ignore you given that I am responding directly to your posts here but anyway... we are largely agreeing. There are lines that should not be crossed - like going onto his private land - everything else that has been posted about has been found easily in the public domain. It is harmless chat with no substance that would disappear down the list of threads quickly if you just ignore it. Holding a licence theoretically means he could obtain the animal. End of theory. The point I think you are missing though is that you repeatedly implying these tours that people have already been promised via donations may not occur is actually quite a big insult to the man.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
We have covered this before, but to repeat - if you get a tour as a result of your 'donation' (or anything else) it is no longer a donation, but becomes a purchase/sale.
Quite true - they are selling tickets but with dates to be announced:
Open Days. - Leopard + Goat Farm
The primary interest for myself (and I imagine others) is marbled cat. I wonder if he has one or two? If it is the latter and it is a potential breeding pair, then there is the possibility we could see the offspring in public collections. Patience is a virtue, as the saying goes...
The caption of the video of the Marbled cat eating that has been posted on Instagram says "One of our beautiful Sunda Marbled cats "Kadek"". So probably more than one.
Also, Novosibirsk now has 1.1, so they're probably hoping to breed.
Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
I don't have an issue with people thinking it's abit invasive posting information that he hasn't released. The information I posted was from a search about something different. I'm in the process of relocating and looked up DWA license Cornwall on Google and what I posted was the 3rd item that came up and was from Cornwall live in August. He could of hidden what he has by having a zoo license but having the DWA means he doesn't have to open to the public so keeps things to himself more.
Given that he was asking for donations not long ago an dia now offering a role with his animals at 20kish brings attention.
My issue with my response was more based on it being from a moderator, there are people on here searching through cities import/export lists and some threats based solely on that information. There are people openly discussing things inrelation to major zoos where no one can find any reference to the plans and can't back up there comments yet the moderators don't raise issue with this. Atleast my post has a line to trace.
If this collection was near London I could imagine drones over head trying to grab a glimpse.
Given his previous collection going under and a host of interesting specimens ending up in zoos open to the public there is hightented interest in his collection already.
Now I'm not trying to rain on the party but if people want to pick fault with information posted then rumours and unsubstantiated information should be higher on the list then picking out information openly available on a Google search.
Given that he was asking for donations not long ago an dia now offering a role with his animals at 20kish brings attention.
My issue with my response was more based on it being from a moderator, there are people on here searching through cities import/export lists and some threats based solely on that information. There are people openly discussing things inrelation to major zoos where no one can find any reference to the plans and can't back up there comments yet the moderators don't raise issue with this. Atleast my post has a line to trace.
If this collection was near London I could imagine drones over head trying to grab a glimpse.
Given his previous collection going under and a host of interesting specimens ending up in zoos open to the public there is hightented interest in his collection already.
Now I'm not trying to rain on the party but if people want to pick fault with information posted then rumours and unsubstantiated information should be higher on the list then picking out information openly available on a Google search.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
This is absolutely NOT the case.
A zoo license requires annual stock lists to be submitted to the LA, not just for simply what is held as would be required for a DWA licence, but 7 columns of data recording starting numbers, all births, arrivals, deaths and departures, then the final number for the year.
There is no way a Zoo License could be used to 'hide' what he has, as stated.
Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
It absolutely could, yes stocktakes are done however as mentioned in multiple threads on here they are becoming less and less commonly available to the public. And as he there for doesn't have to open to the public as is required by a zoo license its keeps his collection hidden. Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing but that's the reality.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Wrong again...!
It is a condition of the ZL for the annual stock lists to be supplied to the LA, and anyone can make a FoIA request for the data held by the LA - so they are ALL available to the public, whether the zoo releases them or not.
THAT, IS THE REALITY...! - regardless of what might be discussed 'on multiple threads on here'.
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Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
No I'm still correct. Yes they are supplied to the local authority but not as they have been in the past posted on the zoos websites. You can gain the information by data requests but the general public won't do so there for hiding what's on site.
This is very much like when you tried to disprove a previous comment of mine in relations to hybrid big cats not being of interest to the UK public like they are in the US by stating the amount of hybrid birds in collections disproved me.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Wrong again...
That is ridiculous - to state that you can gain the information, but that it remains hidden - in the same sentence is totally contradictory. You can either access it, OR it is hidden - it cant be both...
The public can AND DO make such requests.
Annual lists have not been posted on the zoos websites in the past.
They might have been by some zoos, but certainly not by most.
Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
You slam me for what you believe to be contradictory comments and you respond with one. They have been posted on the zoos websites previously is in relation to the multiple threads I referenced. Not every zoo in the country.
And information requests can be made but the information isn't always released. A national newspaper submitted a request to every local authority in the UK and many declined the request.
You can argue all you want but I'm not incorrect, I am correct. Maybe not in your view, from your experience. But again going off of information freely available I am correct.
Holding a DWA licence isn't generally speaking a way to "avoid having to open to the public" - without a zoo licence he cannot open to the public full-time, this is true, but the primary purpose of obtaining a DWA licence isn't to avoid the public.
Moreover, you say elsewhere that "my point would be don't have the DWA license as they are public record" but then acknowledge that zoo licences are also public record.... so you appear to be creating a bit of a catch-22 as far as privacy goes.
The "general public" won't exactly make searches on Google to work out what species a given private keeper holds under a DWA licence, either.
Much as a DWA licence isn't for avoiding "having to open to the public", a zoo licence isn't for "hiding what's on site".
You obviously haven't paid attention to how often I post bemoaning the tendency of some members - especially our younger contingent - to post wild and unsubstantiated speculation if you think the moderators don't raise issue with such things
in this particular case, one of the issues is the fact people jump from "a licence is held for species X" to "he must therefore hold species X now", as @ShonenJake13 said upthread.
Sausagefingers
Well-Known Member
Holding a DWA licence isn't generally speaking a way to "avoid having to open to the public" - without a zoo licence he cannot open to the public full-time, this is true, but the primary purpose of obtaining a DWA licence isn't to avoid the public.
Moreover, you say elsewhere that "my point would be don't have the DWA license as they are public record" but then acknowledge that zoo licences are also public record.... so you appear to be creating a bit of a catch-22 as far as privacy goes.
The "general public" won't exactly make searches on Google to work out what species a given private keeper holds under a DWA licence, either.
Much as a DWA licence isn't for avoiding "having to open to the public", a zoo licence isn't for "hiding what's on site".
You obviously haven't paid attention to how often I post bemoaning the tendency of some members - especially our younger contingent - to post wild and unsubstantiated speculation if you think the moderators don't raise issue with such things
To reply to your points
DWA licences are a matter of public record yes. These state species held or able to hold. A zoo license does not. So privacy levels are very different. No catch 22, you could say a zoo license is more private on paper but less private in reality.
I don't not state the preliminary reason for a DWA license was to hide what is held, just that this could be the reason it was chosen rather then having to open to the public.
I was not googling to find out what is held by DWA in Cornwall but in relation to obtaining a DWA.
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How have I never heard of this place! Just looking down their Instagram feed they appear to have a lot of species I am in desperate need to see!
How can somewhere in the UK have this many rare and unusual species that are so hard to find in captive collections elsewhere?
Is there anywhere with a full species list of this place cause they don't appear to be on Zootierliste and the website doesn't tell you much.
Did some of these amazing species come from the RSCC?
Thanks.
- American Flamingo
- Birds of Paradise
- Brown Hyena
- Bush Dog
- Cheetah
- Chinese Giant Red & White Flying Squirrel
- Clouded Leopard
- Fossa
- Golden Headed Lion Tamarin
- Grandidier’s Vontsira
- Great Indian Hornbill
- Javan Binturong
- Javan Ferret Badger
- King Vulture
- Kirk's Dik-Dik
- Lowland Streaked Tenrec
- Madagascan Crested Ibis
- Madagascan Flying Fox
- Maned Wolf
- Marbled Cat
- Ratel
- Red Ruff Lemur
- Ring Tailed Vontsira
- Saddle Billed Stork
- Southern Cassowary
- Spotted Hyena
- Sunda Gharial
- White Striped Dorcopsis
- White Tailed Antsangy
- Yellow-Throated Marten
How can somewhere in the UK have this many rare and unusual species that are so hard to find in captive collections elsewhere?
Is there anywhere with a full species list of this place cause they don't appear to be on Zootierliste and the website doesn't tell you much.
Did some of these amazing species come from the RSCC?
Thanks.
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The owner of this place also owned the RSCC, so yes.
At least some of the species you have listed are no longer kept at the collection - I'm not sure whether or not any of these have been officially acknowledged as absent on their social media, so it is probably best that I leave matters there and don't explicitly cite the ones I know to be gone
quite apart from anything else, I cannot rule out the possibility they have been obtained once again, or are due to do so!
Pootle
Well-Known Member
I keep 12 Marbled Cats, 16 to 18 Saola (they breed and die regularly hence not sure) plus a lovely couple of Sasquatch (got them involved) in my back garden. Now after reading this post I know why they are building a railway behind our house! .....you pesky nosy Zoo Chatters.