Public monetary support for UK zoos

[GeeZee]

No real surprise though..
The British public generally only donate to sanctuaries or sob-sob stories.
If they wanted donations they should have threatened to kill their own animals (that one seemed to work very well for those zoos which used it during Covid) - or maybe rescue some old geriatric animal of no conservation value from a war zone.
Plenty of tabloid coverage then - and lots of donations.

I agree with this, I have noticed as well in other countries Zoos seem to be better supported by government / public and seem to have significantly higher visitor numbers etc , even though the country / city is comparable to the UK.

An example being Berlin Zoo (which I recently visited) generally has around 3-4 million visitors a year (with Tierpark in Eastern Berlin welcoming a further 1-2million), whereas if you compare it to London Zoo it’s generally remains around the 1.2m mark.

I think partly it’s because in the UK especially there is a sensationalist and very vocal “animal rights” movement , spread over numerous groups who are very anti zoo without considering all the good things that they do and aren’t willing to listen to anyone else not in their echo chamber.

While some of their intentions may be noble & in the not so distant past there was a need to highlight this, I think today it is rather extreme, but because of groups like them I feel it shapes the opinion of the British public without giving them all the facts.

Perhaps this and also a bit of snobbery “the zoo makes loads of money they should pay for it” mentality, whereas in other places there is more of a community iniative (e.g it’s “our” zoo).

 

[pipaluk]

I agree with this, I have noticed as well in other countries Zoos seem to be better supported by government / public and seem to have significantly higher visitor numbers etc , even though the country / city is comparable to the UK.

An example being Berlin Zoo (which I recently visited) generally has around 3-4 million visitors a year (with Tierpark in Eastern Berlin welcoming a further 1-2million), whereas if you compare it to London Zoo it’s generally remains around the 1.2m mark.

I think partly it’s because in the UK especially there is a sensationalist and very vocal “animal rights” movement , spread over numerous groups who are very anti zoo without considering all the good things that they do and aren’t willing to listen to anyone else not in their echo chamber.

While some of their intentions may be noble & in the not so distant past there was a need to highlight this, I think today it is rather extreme, but because of groups like them I feel it shapes the opinion of the British public without giving them all the facts.

Perhaps this and also a bit of snobbery “the zoo makes loads of money they should pay for it” mentality, whereas in other places there is more of a community iniative (e.g it’s “our” zoo).

I think most of the reason the Berlin zoos get more visitors is because they are simply much better than London. London zoo is not in the best 5 zoos in the UK and hasn't been for nearly 2 decades! It relies heavily on local schools visits and foreign tourists to boost its visitor numbers

 

[GeeZee]

I think most of the reason the Berlin zoos get more visitors is because they are simply much better than London. London zoo is not in the best 5 zoos in the UK and hasn't been for nearly 2 decades! It relies heavily on local schools visits and foreign tourists to boost its visitor numbers

That is true, but even Chester Zoo which is arguably the “best” UK zoo, does not get that many visitors, I just feel & from experience of my travels etc that in the UK these days there is less appetite (to a degree) for Zoos in the wider population, when compared to mainland Europe, using Germany as an example.

 

[pipaluk]

That is true, but even Chester Zoo which is arguably the “best” UK zoo, does not get that many visitors, I just feel & from experience of my travels etc that in the UK these days there is less appetite (to a degree) for Zoos in the wider population, when compared to mainland Europe, using Germany as an example.

I won't dispute that but put Berlin zoo in regents park and it would get 3 million visitors a year I'm sure . Put Colchester zoo there and it would get 2 million!

 

[cerperal]

London zoo is not in the best 5 zoos in the UK and hasn't been for nearly 2 decades!

Respectfully disagree, as I think most people would. The lower visitor numbers probably derive more from location, being annoying to get to especially compared to Berlin, the cost, and the general lack of advertising - not to mention the number of attractions in London. I can also categorically say the majority of people through the gates on most days - especially public holidays, obviously - are British nationals

Regardless impact of the anti-zoo crowd in this country is massively overblown. From my time in Germany, the biggest difference in zoo culture is that zoos in the UK are very much seen as something you take the kids to, and generally not adult attractions. I think the main reason BZP are struggling to raise funds is the general lack of incentive, mixed feelings from the locals over the original zoo closing, the fairly limited change to the site over the past 5 years or so and the average Bristolian being tighter than two coats of vegan peace paint. And it's a right pain in the arse to get to for an area where a lot of people don't drive.

I have no doubt that funding will pick up once new exhibits open and hopefully new bus routes are introduced.

 

[cerperal]

I won't dispute that but put Berlin zoo in regents park and it would get 3 million visitors a year I'm sure . Put Colchester zoo there and it would get 2 million!

Put either in Regent's Park and you get closed down within the week for numerous welfare violations. Admittedly that is (amusingly) pedantic but you can't compare like-for-like two zoos when one is more than double the size of the other and not hampered by listed restrictions. Besides if visitor numbers were everything, Bristol would never have closed. But in the long term, a new collection with better exhibitry and welfare for the animals is the way to go. It's taken London 20 odd years to do that while remaining open and without a massive influx of cash, BZP will hopefully manage it in the next 5 years. Ultimately if that means entrance prices go up people will still visit

 

[pipaluk]

Respectfully disagree, as I think most people would. The lower visitor numbers probably derive more from location, being annoying to get to especially compared to Berlin, the cost, and the general lack of advertising - not to mention the number of attractions in London. I can also categorically say the majority of people through the gates on most days - especially public holidays, obviously - are British nationals

Regardless impact of the anti-zoo crowd in this country is massively overblown. From my time in Germany, the biggest difference in zoo culture is that zoos in the UK are very much seen as something you take the kids to, and generally not adult attractions. I think the main reason BZP are struggling to raise funds is the general lack of incentive, mixed feelings from the locals over the original zoo closing, the fairly limited change to the site over the past 5 years or so and the average Bristolian being tighter than two coats of vegan peace paint. And it's a right pain in the arse to get to for an area where a lot of people don't drive.

I have no doubt that funding will pick up once new exhibits open and hopefully new bus routes are introduced.

The London zoo v Berlin arguement is for another thread really and shouldn't be carried on here but I stand 100% by my previous post. And if Colchester zoo was in regents park it would get far more visitors than the current zoo there. London zoo is very easy to get to by public transport ( compared to Colchester and despite having a massive catchment area plus tourists only gets around 20% more visitors)

 

[GeeZee]

The London zoo v Berlin arguement is for another thread really and shouldn't be carried on here but I stand 100% by my previous post. And if Colchester zoo was in regents park it would get far more visitors than the current zoo there. London zoo is very easy to get to by public transport ( compared to Colchester and despite having a massive catchment area plus tourists only gets around 20% more visitors)

I may well make a thread for different comparisons, it’s an interesting debate and does carry substance. While of course visitor numbers are not exclusively a measure of success they are a useful tool to gauge the appeal of a respective Zoo.

A good point was made earlier whereby BZP is harder to get to if your a local, particularly as a lot of people in Bristol don’t drive, both young and old - I have family there who’ve never owned a car.

On the other hand though if you do drive and came from elsewhere (not Bristol) it is probably slightly easier as it’s off the motorway - another reason is that people in the UK tend not to travel longer distances to visit a Zoo (or any attraction) whereas in other countries they may be more used to long distance travel?

 

[jtrbmvcq]

That is true, but even Chester Zoo which is arguably the “best” UK zoo, does not get that many visitors, I just feel & from experience of my travels etc that in the UK these days there is less appetite (to a degree) for Zoos in the wider population, when compared to mainland Europe, using Germany as an example.

I’m sure I remember reading that Chester Zoo is the most visited paid attraction outside of London? They get more visitors than Alton Towers, for example. I don’t think the anti-zoo community is any larger in the UK compared to the rest of Europe, in my experience we are an animal loving nation and the majority of the country still enjoy a day out to the zoo.

That aside I agree with above that the BZP fundraiser probably hasn’t done amazingly due to the lack of incentive for public to donate. There’s no ‘rescue’ sob story and they’re building the exhibits and the zoo anyway. I’m sure the new Bristol Zoo will be well visited again once the expansion is in place. The gorillas alone will be a big draw. It may be a bit more difficult for inner city Bristolians to access but being situated just off the M5 it is easier for ‘out of towners’ to drive to than the old Clifton site.

 

[Nathano]

I’m sure I remember reading that Chester Zoo is the most visited paid attraction outside of London? They get more visitors than Alton Towers, for example. I don’t think the anti-zoo community is any larger in the UK compared to the rest of Europe, in my experience we are an animal loving nation and the majority of the country still enjoy a day out to the zoo.

That aside I agree with above that the BZP fundraiser probably hasn’t done amazingly due to the lack of incentive for public to donate. There’s no ‘rescue’ sob story and they’re building the exhibits and the zoo anyway. I’m sure the new Bristol Zoo will be well visited again once the expansion is in place. The gorillas alone will be a big draw. It may be a bit more difficult for inner city Bristolians to access but being situated just off the M5 it is easier for ‘out of towners’ to drive to than the old Clifton site.

I certainly think that the anti-zoo community is much less active in the UK than it is in America or as it was 30 years ago.

Whether this was because the movement itself became less vocal, Fleet Street got bored and moved on or changes in welfare standards meant the subject of outrage became vaguer is unclear.

I would also question the idea that there is less of a community attachment in the UK - maybe this is just a Northern thing, but the broader Cheshire/Merseyside community are very attached to Chester.

 

[Charles]

Pls can you make a seperate thread as this has very little relevance to Bristol zoo project as already stated

 

[GeeZee]

Pls can you make a seperate thread as this has very little relevance to Bristol zoo project as already stated

I may well do as it’s an interesting discussion on the broader scale of things - but the main point raised is still relevant as we are talking about the seemingly lacklustre support the community has for BZP & potential reasons why, seeing the appeal for the new gorilla habitat fall so flat off its target makes me sad.

 

[Charles]

I may well do as it’s an interesting discussion on the broader scale of things - but the main point raised is still relevant as we are talking about the seemingly lacklustre support the community has for BZP & potential reasons why, seeing the appeal for the new gorilla habitat fall so flat off its target makes me sad.

As someone who loved BZG much more than BZP (I do still love it) it’s a mixture of things I believe. Location being one but not the major I don’t think as your next to a huge shopping district
1 - they didn’t take enough animals from BZG as much as space and budget is an issue, even the monkeys from the islands or monkey jungle should’ve been moved over (I can think of countless locations on site where they could go and fit in
2 - the delays in bringing in new animals has been too long. As much as the new additions have been great, there hasn’t been a huge rise in species. Ostrich replaced reindeer, blue eyed lemurs replaced red bellied, spotted deer were new and red pandas are new but they no longer have the mongoose lemur. Had they grown the collection with more enclosures (as much as the tropical house is on its way) I think it would’ve encouraged more visitors and more spirit

however with that all said, the car park has been almost full every visit that I’ve been the last few months so visitor footfall seems to be up and they’ve invested well in non animal facilities like the new formal garden and play area

it’s something people need to adjust to and will take time, the people who were upset about BZG will move on and hopefully with time see BZP for what it is and the (hopefully) great zoo it will be

 

[Pertinax]

seeing the appeal for the new gorilla habitat fall so flat off its target makes me sad.

Is there somewhere that shows how much they have raised so far? I think the major problem is that there has been such a long delay in the sale of the old site. If it had gone ahead quickly the society would have had the funds easily to build it and finished it long(?) ago and maybe some other major new exhibits too. Instead they are struggling and the public are being ask to donate yet again for something, while the disaffection in some circles over the loss of the old zoo might have had an effect also, I don't know.

I believe there is a judicial review over the objections to the sale sometime this month. Hopefully and provided the outcome is in the zoo's favour it will help speed things up.

 

[Ned]

if Colchester zoo was in regents park it would get far more visitors than the current zoo there. London zoo is very easy to get to by public transport ( compared to Colchester and despite having a massive catchment area plus tourists only gets around 20% more visitors)

London has to compete with dozens of free attractions. From art galleries to museums to some of the worlds best city parks, plus all the sight-seeing that can be done by just wandering around the capital. I wouldn't be surprised if London has more free stuff than any city, elsewhere you have to pay a lot of money for entrance to things like museums.
What free attraction does Colchester have to compete against? The coast if it's sunny? Even paid attractions are thin on the ground.

 

[pipaluk]

London has to compete with dozens of free attractions. From art galleries to museums to some of the worlds best city parks, plus all the sight-seeing that can be done by just wandering around the capital. I wouldn't be surprised if London has more free stuff than any city, elsewhere you have to pay a lot of money for entrance to things like museums.
What free attraction does Colchester have to compete against? The coast if it's sunny? Even paid attractions are thin on the ground.

The free attractions is a fair point but also the very high entrance fees at London Zoo are bound to put people off . Between £35 and £38 per adult is ridiculously high though for a zoo that could comfortably be seen in not much more than 2 hours these days. It makes it one of the most expensive in the UK ( if not the.most outside theme parks).
Compare that price to what you pay for and get at Berlin, Prague for example.
This comes back to the problem that a lot of zoos in Europe are state funded? As I believe some of the free attractions in London probably are

 

[polarbear]

The free attractions is a fair point but also the very high entrance fees at London Zoo are bound to put people off . Between £35 and £38 per adult is ridiculously high though for a zoo that could comfortably be seen in not much more than 2 hours these days. It makes it one of the most expensive in the UK ( if not the.most outside theme parks).
Compare that price to what you pay for and get at Berlin, Prague for example.
This comes back to the problem that a lot of zoos in Europe are state funded? As I believe some of the free attractions in London probably are

2 hours for a visit? We were there for 6 hours when we took first time visitors and still hadn’t seen it all.

 

[pipaluk]

2 hours for a visit? We were there for 6 hours when we took first time visitors and still hadn’t seen it all.

I could spend 6 hours there and usually do, but if you were there 6 hours and didn't see everything it would have taken you 6 days in the 1970s!

 

[ZooNews2024]

The free attractions is a fair point ....
This comes back to the problem that a lot of zoos in Europe are state funded? As I believe some of the free attractions in London probably are

There is no such thing as a 'free attraction' - ALL have to be paid for by someone!!

 

[Ned]

There is no such thing as a 'free attraction' - ALL have to be paid for by someone!!

You know what is meant by free attraction; free to enter, free to foreign visitors. Why make such a pedantic comment?