R.I.P. Margaret Thatcher.
- Thread starter TARZAN
- Start date
If not, I'll move it.
I agree, I came here looking for zoo news not political banter!
A member of my family had first hand experience of the 1984/85 Miners' strike. Mrs Tahtcher cannot be blamed for that, it was the N.U.M. who chose to strike, not the Prime Minister telling them to do so.
My cousin had his jaw broken by a strking miner in the summer of 1984. His crime? To want to work and to provide a decent standard of living for hs young family. Along with many mine worksers he would have supported an official strike, but not the illegal one. The union bully boys hated him for that.
At the time my brother had a relatioship with the daughter of one of the leading union officials for the North Staffordshire area. He willingly accepted gifts of food parcels donated for the striking miners families, and sold them on at a profit for himself. He authorised vandalism against a coach company which supplied transport for miners wanting to go to work, reulting in the loss of two buses from fire damage.
I don't like most things that either party whilst in government has done, but I think that the hatred shown to a deceased person is way, way over the top.
I just wish that politicians would spend as much time working together for the benefit of everyone as they do in petty bickering with each other.
My cousin had his jaw broken by a strking miner in the summer of 1984. His crime? To want to work and to provide a decent standard of living for hs young family. Along with many mine worksers he would have supported an official strike, but not the illegal one. The union bully boys hated him for that.
At the time my brother had a relatioship with the daughter of one of the leading union officials for the North Staffordshire area. He willingly accepted gifts of food parcels donated for the striking miners families, and sold them on at a profit for himself. He authorised vandalism against a coach company which supplied transport for miners wanting to go to work, reulting in the loss of two buses from fire damage.
I don't like most things that either party whilst in government has done, but I think that the hatred shown to a deceased person is way, way over the top.
I just wish that politicians would spend as much time working together for the benefit of everyone as they do in petty bickering with each other.
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
Don't get out much, do you?
The way many Americans spoke (and speak) of GWBush? The way many spoke (and speak) of the current president Obama? The on-going efforts to insist that Obama is not legally president? The Congressman who yelled out "Liar!" during his State of The Union?
We are not so different from our neighbors to the East whose language, at least superficially, resembles our own
jbnbsn99
Well-Known Member
The best way to learn is to listen to the opinions of people who disagree with you.
That said, please try and keep things civil.
Okay - we either need to bring this thread back on track to talk about Margaret Thatcher's impact on zoos, or the thread will be closed.
I initially started this thread as it is significant in the part Baroness Thatcher played in the great rich history of London Zoo, i.e. she gave them a final one off payment and that was it, no more money, which at the time resulted in this zoo nearly closing. Due to people who at the time were more compassionate than Thatcher donating money ranging from seven figure sums from millionaires to kids sending in their pocket money, the zoo was able to continue and we still have the pleasure of visiting, and indeed discussing it on here today. It has also been most interesting to read the posts on here, whatever your opinion of Thatcher was, particularly from people who we have had the pleasure of discussing this interest of ours with for a number of years. Was it not a warning when she callously stopped London Zoo's annual payment what a heartless premier she turned out to be, in fact, even before that, when a Education minister for the man who got the two giant pandas for the zoo when she stopped school milk, and later, even had the nerve to stab the man in the back who gave her the first step on the political ladder?, Rejoice, Rejoice, said Sir Ted when she got a taste of her own medicine, good riddance to bad rubbish as far as I am concerned, "Yes I'm gloating" she stated after a year of a section of society living in poverty, families with young children, I actually question if she was actually human and not a monster, thank you.
Johnny Morris.
Well-Known Member
I see my post has been deleted, Please could someone point out to uszoo that i was not being rude, and there are 4 countries in the United Kingdom, not just England.
I always think it's ironic that Americans talk about a "British accent" when our accents couldn't be more different & they generally mean English and yet use "English" much of the time meaning UK.
which economy? US is as bankrupt as Greece
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
{deleted}
But to get on topic, I think the 10 million gift in the 80s said more about the zoo than it did Thatcher (who, by the way, is in hell playing poker with Pinochet). I think its way more interesting to look at the politics of the zoological society around that time than Thatcher, who seemed uninterested in animals.
But to get on topic, I think the 10 million gift in the 80s said more about the zoo than it did Thatcher (who, by the way, is in hell playing poker with Pinochet). I think its way more interesting to look at the politics of the zoological society around that time than Thatcher, who seemed uninterested in animals.
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Indeed Johnstoni, as always a good thought provoking post from yourself. I am sure that all was not well at London Zoo before the grocer's daughter/chemist/barrister stopped their money, it would certainly appear that complancancy had set in at this time, i.e. no new buildings since the cat terraces in 1976. When Solly Zucherman retired from his position as secretary(an unpaid position), he stated that he was leaving the zoo in good shape, and indeed he was, also the controversy surrounding the demise of Pole Pole, the African elephant, which was the catalyst for Virginia Mc Kenna and her late husband to start Zoo Check, which is now The Born Free Foundation, which certainly would not have helped things at the time. Perhaps London Zoo did need a kick up the backside at the time, OK, but to stop its annual government annual payment, no, no no
And yes I do not think Thatcher had any affinity with animals whatsoever, I consider myself to be an animal lover and the saying is "takes one to know one", what I saw of Thatcher being filmed with animals, I found it very false, in particular that time she was filmed exercising a spaniel on a beach, I think I am qualified in remarking on that as I have been exercising spaniels(cocker) on the beach for over forty years.
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Perhaps the ten million pound final payment Thatcher gave to London Zoo, she classed as their redundancy payment, the attitude being, you've been well paid, what happens to you or any of the animals in your care afterwards is your business, take your place in the free market place and stop being a moaning minny, a similar attitude was also taken by the tories when they closed the coal mines down. Thankfully, London Zoo had financial support from various sources to continue in the present day, perhaps in a way not to the likening of every body, including its critics on here, I wonder if it would be any better today if it had also the annual government payment as well as the money that it makes itself after making its own way in the free market?
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For some reason I remember that too- I don't think it was her dog and she obviously didn't relate to it. Some of these so-called 'photo-opportunities' can badly misfire if the public see through them- like the William Hague 'baseball cap' one.
I agree she wasn't an animal lover and so not interested in the fortunes of ZSL.
Some of these so-called 'photo-opportunities' can badly misfire if the public see through them- like the William Hague 'baseball cap' one.
Or falling over in an unexpectedly big wave like Kinnock!
Coming from a mining family, I must say that my opinions on Thatcher are pretty strong. I respect her strong stances and not turning back attitude. And lets be honest - the unions needed sorting out. I do not agree with her policies of privatisation to be quite honest, but that's not what I want to talk about. I want to ask why the taxpayer has to fork out 8 million quid for her funeral. The woman who called Mandela a terrorist, helped cover up hillsbourough, was friends with General Pinochet and Jimmy Saville and said that homosexuals were cheated. What's worse is that there is no money for the NHS, no money to fix our roads, no money for the disabled, no money for ex-soldiers, no money for public service - yet there's money for her funeral at a whim. So it's austerity Mr Cameron?
It's also ironic that me, currently living in affluent oxfordshire, have heard many anti-thatcher sediments in an area where you would think that they would be full of praise!
It's also ironic that me, currently living in affluent oxfordshire, have heard many anti-thatcher sediments in an area where you would think that they would be full of praise!
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You're being ridiculous blaming her for being friends with Jimmy Savile given nobody at the time seemingly knew about his (alleged) illegal activities. Are you looking to demonise anyone who's ever been friends or worked with Savile?
Fair points to make on a lot of the other stuff though -especially the funeral type and cost thereof (unfortunately nowadays huge swathes of the nation seems to get caught up in spirals of competitive sympathy and mourning, the seemingly I care/am more upset/compassionate than you and am going to make a bigger gesture" attitude -I suppose it helps fill 24 hour news
).You're being ridiculous blaming her for being friends with Jimmy Savile given nobody at the time seemingly knew about his (alleged) illegal activities. Are you looking to demonise anyone who's ever been friends or worked with Savile?
Fair points to make on a lot of the other stuff though -especially the funeral type and cost thereof (unfortunately nowadays huge swathes of the nation seems to get caught up in spirals of competitive sympathy and mourning, the seemingly I care/am more upset/compassionate than you and am going to make a bigger gesture" attitude -I suppose it helps fill 24 hour news
What really goT on my whick was the non stop Thatcher love fest! A personal highlight was when a man said 'this is what happens when those on the right get together - these are the real people of Britain' * as her pulled down the sleve on his Armani Tux..
I completely understand if you respect her for what she did to be honest, and my personal opinions aside, I find it ridiculous that we have to fit the bill for her funeral. Why not privatise it? After all, she said the worst 11 words were ' Hello, I'm the Government - and I am here to help!'
The one thing I've taken from her death more than anything is this quote by George Bernard Shaw.
"If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always depend on the support of Paul." - That is the true problem with Social democracy and what made the examples of Thatcher and Reagan so influential. They both created a true sea change where hate them or not someone finally provided a check on the idea that government fiat can solve all problems or that its services are free. Someone who represented the common fact that government can not create wealth it can only move it around by taxation or inflation. From the differing attitudes between the way her death has been treated by the British people compared to the American people and Reagan (other than the passing of 9 years) shows there are a lot more takers than makers in the UK circa 2013 than the US circa 2004. Its weird the 80s was the beginning of offshorting in the United States primarily because of inflation first then the methods to fight it (the jobs in the US weren't economically viable hence stagflation). But very little hate except for the extreme active left is attributed to Reagan via offshoring. Mainly its probably the history of the US in being a freer market anyway.
"If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always depend on the support of Paul." - That is the true problem with Social democracy and what made the examples of Thatcher and Reagan so influential. They both created a true sea change where hate them or not someone finally provided a check on the idea that government fiat can solve all problems or that its services are free. Someone who represented the common fact that government can not create wealth it can only move it around by taxation or inflation. From the differing attitudes between the way her death has been treated by the British people compared to the American people and Reagan (other than the passing of 9 years) shows there are a lot more takers than makers in the UK circa 2013 than the US circa 2004. Its weird the 80s was the beginning of offshorting in the United States primarily because of inflation first then the methods to fight it (the jobs in the US weren't economically viable hence stagflation). But very little hate except for the extreme active left is attributed to Reagan via offshoring. Mainly its probably the history of the US in being a freer market anyway.