Colchester Zoo Rajang ??
- Thread starter GillP
- Start date
taun
Well-Known Member
Brave.......stupid maybe as its a debate that the "Rajang Fan Club" will never look at the side of greater good.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Well said!!!!
So sorry at your disappointment. We are all entitled to our opinions and sentiments. I did not mean I prefered 'humanised' orangutans just stating that Rajang is unique (for want of a better word) due to his hand-reared background.
Whilst fair points are raised, I also consider that Rajang acts as an ambassador for his species to raise awareness to the severity of the current deforestation issues driving orangutans to extinction. There are very few fully grown males for close viewing that serve this purpose. I fully agree re conservation of species but currently, until the devastation caused by deforestation for palm oil plantations, logging etc is acknowledged and measures are taken to halt this, there is little chance of any captive bred ones ever being released into the wild considering the regular intake of wild orphans at rehabilitation centres. This being the case, I have to question the ethnics of creating more breeding groups in already limited accommodation.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
How can Rajang be an Embassador for his species when his species isn`t one that is found naturally in the wild.
As for breeding more pure Orangs if we don`t do it now when we cannot put them back into the wild,when we can put them back into the wild we may not have any to put back.
As for breeding more pure Orangs if we don`t do it now when we cannot put them back into the wild,when we can put them back into the wild we may not have any to put back.
taun
Well-Known Member
And I did not comment on yours.
This could also be done with a breeding group! And how is promoting a Hybrid male going raise awareness other than our irresponsible breeding (not in all cases due to mesh fences) of this species in the past. Please think about that one!
I did not mention reintroduction! As there are too many in-situ projects falling at this at the moment.
So we let the captive population struggle and die with the extinction of the wild populations a real possibility? Where are the ethnics in this?
We destroy there natural existing population and habitat and destroy any potential future for them?
Paulkarli08
Well-Known Member
Wasn't the whole point of this thread to see whether Rajang was still alive? which has been confirmed that he is? Why turn it into a huge argument about breeding groups and hybrids? no need!
I agree entirely.
GillP
Well-Known Member
I am sure Andii didn't mean Rajang is an ambassador for hybrids 
... but as a particularly accessible and striking animal he does raise awareness of oranguatans generally, be they Sumatran or Bornean. At least some of his visitors will read the various bits of educational blurb dotted around the enclosure and therefore be educated about matters they otherwise would have remained ignorant of if such a compelling 'attraction' as Rajang didn't exist.
(and yes I am aware Tiga's now there too but maintain Rajang is still the main draw).
I do actually see where Taun etc are coming from and I too visit zoos not just to observe animals but also to support their conservation efforts. However, it isn't as 'simple' as that is it ? With the best will in the world conservation can only be achieved if zoos continue to attract paying visitors and undoubtedly, a large number of visitors come because of a zoo's 'star' animals. So far as Colchester is concerned, Rajang definitely falls in that category, as do Sasha (white tiger), Subu (singular lion) and the 2 amur tigers. Using a similar argument, Subu is 'blocking' a breeding pair from moving into Lion Rock (notwithstanding concerns about its suitability for lions), and Sasha's enclosure could be 'better used' for other breeding cats. In the case of the critically endangered amur tigers, IIRC, although Anoushka had a previous pregnancy which ended in disaster when she ate her cubs, I seem to remember reading that there are no further plans to breed from her. If I'm correct, then perhaps she should 'make way' too ?
Taking this argument to its logical conclusion can you imagine the outcry were Colchester to announce that Rajang (and Anoushka) had been sacrificed for the greater good (as oppose to being euthanised for humane medical reasons) ? Like it or not Rajang is also an ambassador for the zoo itself and arguments about protecting the species wouldn't wash with most visitors. I suspect a great many would vote with their feet and with a loss of income invariably the ability of Colchester to maintain its current care and conservation programmes would be severely affected. Whether you like its various forms of kiddie related entertainment or not, Colchester's general reputation and the way it's branded is that of a family zoo, and getting rid of him would hardly endear the zoo to legions of parents and children, who could hardly be expected to understand the bigger picture. Euthanasia for convenience-sake or even 'conservation-sake' would damage its reputation terribly.
FWIW, I do think euthanasia has its place .... obviously when animals' quality of life is poor, but also when excessive births are unable to be accommodated at their home zoo or elsewhere (obviously, I appreciate this practice doesn't apply to larger more 'noticeable' animals, but I am sure it goes on with smaller, less attractive species when contraceptive efforts have failed). However, to do this to an iconic animal who's lived at this zoo for 30 years and has contributed hugely to its visitor numbers would be very counter productive.
... but as a particularly accessible and striking animal he does raise awareness of oranguatans generally, be they Sumatran or Bornean. At least some of his visitors will read the various bits of educational blurb dotted around the enclosure and therefore be educated about matters they otherwise would have remained ignorant of if such a compelling 'attraction' as Rajang didn't exist. (and yes I am aware Tiga's now there too but maintain Rajang is still the main draw).
I do actually see where Taun etc are coming from and I too visit zoos not just to observe animals but also to support their conservation efforts. However, it isn't as 'simple' as that is it ? With the best will in the world conservation can only be achieved if zoos continue to attract paying visitors and undoubtedly, a large number of visitors come because of a zoo's 'star' animals. So far as Colchester is concerned, Rajang definitely falls in that category, as do Sasha (white tiger), Subu (singular lion) and the 2 amur tigers. Using a similar argument, Subu is 'blocking' a breeding pair from moving into Lion Rock (notwithstanding concerns about its suitability for lions), and Sasha's enclosure could be 'better used' for other breeding cats. In the case of the critically endangered amur tigers, IIRC, although Anoushka had a previous pregnancy which ended in disaster when she ate her cubs, I seem to remember reading that there are no further plans to breed from her. If I'm correct, then perhaps she should 'make way' too ?
Taking this argument to its logical conclusion can you imagine the outcry were Colchester to announce that Rajang (and Anoushka) had been sacrificed for the greater good (as oppose to being euthanised for humane medical reasons) ? Like it or not Rajang is also an ambassador for the zoo itself and arguments about protecting the species wouldn't wash with most visitors. I suspect a great many would vote with their feet and with a loss of income invariably the ability of Colchester to maintain its current care and conservation programmes would be severely affected. Whether you like its various forms of kiddie related entertainment or not, Colchester's general reputation and the way it's branded is that of a family zoo, and getting rid of him would hardly endear the zoo to legions of parents and children, who could hardly be expected to understand the bigger picture. Euthanasia for convenience-sake or even 'conservation-sake' would damage its reputation terribly.
FWIW, I do think euthanasia has its place .... obviously when animals' quality of life is poor, but also when excessive births are unable to be accommodated at their home zoo or elsewhere (obviously, I appreciate this practice doesn't apply to larger more 'noticeable' animals, but I am sure it goes on with smaller, less attractive species when contraceptive efforts have failed). However, to do this to an iconic animal who's lived at this zoo for 30 years and has contributed hugely to its visitor numbers would be very counter productive.
I'm not trying to be antagonist, irresponsible or unethical, I just meant raise awareness of the 'oranguans' species in general, after all, few of the general public are aware of the different sub-species let alone the hybrid situation. I feel raising public awareness is an essential part of trying to change the whole deforestation situation to save habitat so we CAN save the species - both wild and captitive ones. I was not suggesting the captive breeding population be destroyed, just that accommodation is limited at present. I'm fully aware the human race is destroying their habitat and I campaign relentlessly to raise awareness and make changes to save the species and I feel this needs as many different approaches as possible.
We all have our views and sentiments, I just feel it harsh to say Rajang is better off dead and useless as many do feel his existence is serving a purpose to help the species. Moreover, when his time does come, then Tiga will be fully mature so a new breeding regime will commence.
Anyway, as another post concludes, this thread has served the purpose to which it was intended - to answer the concerns raised re Rajang's health.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
taun
Well-Known Member
You missed the point completely, am not calling for all animals that are not breeding to be culled!
Take Giraffes, there is not enough pure bred species to go around therefore hybrids will be around for a lot longer but at least this can occur naturally in the wild! And when the pure bred species have been bred in enough numbers I expect hybrids to be phased out.
Similar situation exists with Bornean Orangutans except for there is less Hybrids in captivity. Therefore there is now greater need for the space to be used for breeding/holding a pure species.
taun
Well-Known Member
Many Zooborn Orangutans have had to be handraised in the past, and some still are, so Rajang is not really unique in that respect, though he IS unique in being the last Hybrid Orangutan in the UK. I think you'll find his strong attatchment to people is at least as much due to the fact that during his earlier years, he wasn't kept with others of his species(the same would be true of a mother-raised animal then kept alone too) so by the time he was given a female he was firmly set in his people-orientated ways - but also proved perfectly happy living with another orangutan too.
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Originally Colchester wanted to have Sumatrans, as you know. They really are in more need of more places keeping them as they are considerably more endangered in the wild. However, now the rather unsuitable new Orangutan Forest has been built, it is perhaps a good thing they haven't got them- it is really more suitable for the less active Bornean species- though could do with far more climbing equipment even for them. Hopefully over the next few years some more equipment will be added (as in the case of the Mandrill exhibit which is now far improved on what it was initially) and they will eventully have a breeding group of Bornean.
I think that was aimed at me Zoogiraffe.
In fairness, you never said he'd be better off dead, either. You said that orang-utans in captivity as a whole would benefit from his death, which is true, as far as I can see.
I don't think the zoo would ever make euthanasia fly politically, however, while there are no particular health issues, and in fact, I don't think he should be euthanased while healthy either.
Just I won't be mourning too much when the time comes, is all.
What the Zoo should/could have done if they wanted breeding Orangutans shorter term, is design the enclosure to accomodate both Rajang and a breeding pair/trio in seperate areas.(When Rajang finally passed on his area could have been incorporated into that for the breeders) The fact they didn't do that indicates to me they are quite happy with things as they are. I see nothing wrong in that, at present they've been able to take in another young surplus male so have been able to contribute to the UK programme, even if only as male holders at present.
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