Rat Survey- UK Zoos

[Gavin123]

I have also seen rats at colchester zoo, as mentioned zoos must be an oasis for rodents. Probably much less of a nuisance to zoo animals than some bird species, i remember one time going to marwell and seeing hundreds of crows about stealing all the animal feed and plucking hair from the animals for nest material.

I also once saw a weasel in with the bachelor gorillas at port lympne, was very entertaining!

 

[MRJ]

How is this a misconception, the fact is bacteria and viruses occur everywhere but often require a vector to transfer to other hosts (mosquitos and avian malaria spring to mind, humans do a pretty good job too) so regardless of whether you like them or not rats DO spread disease as do their smaller relatives, ask anyone working with marmosets/tamarin/toucans and they will tell you that the presence of rodents in these areas is not something to ignore, control is a must and there is usually several bait points around such areas but outbreaks do occur, usually zoos will act pretty quickly to bring the situation under control.

Rats are also predators, a disaster for instance in small bird aviaries. However every zoo has rats, even with the strictest control measures they always re-invade from neighbouring properties. The other factor to consider is that the general public usually loath them and will mark a zoo down if they see them. Of course most people don't realise how we share this world with rats - I've heard it said we are never more than 20' from one.

 

[Steve Robinson]

Of course most people don't realise how we share this world with rats - I've heard it said we are never more than 20' from one.

I've been to meetings like that!

Seriously, they are a significant vector for diseases. And the amount of food that they spoil with their faeces and urine is significant. The physical damage that they can cause to property should not be underestimated. As MRJ has pointed out and Mrs Secret Squirrel will attest to, the public perception of a facility with rats will not augur well for it's continuing success. Rodents are the most serious pest that we have here at the DDZ.
But "relocate" them? Never! We kill them, just as we kill cats and ants.

 

[Chlidonias]

Most small birds in a collection aren't bothered by Rats, the eggs are at risk but not normall the adult birds.

perhaps you should look at the history of rat-caused bird/bat/reptile/invertebrate extinctions in the Pacific to see what damage rats can do to free-living animals, let alone their threat to caged animals.

 

[RowanGreen]

Steve Robinson: shame if your zoo is killing cats. It's generally been found that problems brought by feral cat colonies are better controlled by neutering and returning the cats. This prevents the colony growing in numbers, and the resident cats stop other cats moving in.

I think you might be in Australia? I apreciate that there are much better arguments there for not wanting free roaming cat colonies than over here. Sorry I don't have the references, but I have heard that some research suggests that cats may actually be benificial to Australian wildlife, in that they apparently predate more none native mice etc rather than native species, therefore possibly actually helping protect natives.

It might also be worth looking into possibilities of re-homing. Difficult I know, especially if the cats are feral, but maybe you could do a ring round?

Do you capture and check the cats for microchips/tameness before euthansia? If cats are moving into the zoo from outside some may well be people's lost pets.

I appreciate that another course of action might not be possible, but if it hasn't been done lately, it might be time for a re-evaluation of the policy on this. 'Zoo kills cats' is not good advertising.

 

[ZYBen]

Steve Robinson: shame if your zoo is killing cats. It's generally been found that problems brought by feral cat colonies are better controlled by neutering and returning the cats. This prevents the colony growing in numbers, and the resident cats stop other cats moving in.

I think you might be in Australia? I apreciate that there are much better arguments there for not wanting free roaming cat colonies than over here. Sorry I don't have the references, but I have heard that some research suggests that cats may actually be benificial to Australian wildlife, in that they apparently predate more none native mice etc rather than native species, therefore possibly actually helping protect natives.

It might also be worth looking into possibilities of re-homing. Difficult I know, especially if the cats are feral, but maybe you could do a ring round?

Do you capture and check the cats for microchips/tameness before euthansia? If cats are moving into the zoo from outside some may well be people's lost pets.

I appreciate that another course of action might not be possible, but if it hasn't been done lately, it might be time for a re-evaluation of the policy on this. 'Zoo kills cats' is not good advertising.

Anyone killing a feral species is good in my books. Be it Cat, Rat or even Pygmy Hippo!

 

[volvox]

I've only ever seen one rat at ZSL, in the squirrel monkey walkthrough, and that was ages ago so he might have moved on (or been helped on his way!). Mice are much more prevalent, and indeed the keepers do regard them as a problem for whatever reasons and do their very best to eliminate them. There used to be loads of them on the Rainforest floor and kids were often more interested in them than the tamarins! But I haven't seen any since the enclosure was recently revamped and a new floor put in, so hopefully that has sorted the problem.

Incidentally, ZSL is a haven for all sorts of other local wildlife which aren't regarded as a problem (the latter including rats, mice, herons and of course foxes. And probably squirrels. And, er, cockroaches). I believe it is home to the only existing house sparrow colony in Regent's Park, for example, which enjoy pickings from the vultures' raw meat. The other day I saw a grey wagtail near the gorillas' moat, and there is a thriving and growing population of moorhens all over the zoo, which increasingly behave more like starlings, stalking about on the paths looking for food, well away from the water! There was a proposal that there should be a record of unusual and/or interesting wild animals seen by volunteers, but so far that hasn't come about.

There is a domestic cat, Heathcliff, in the zoo... although I believe he is rather frowned upon by some. Don't know whether he is any good at catching rodents. He looks rather too well fed to me! His ambition seems to be to get hold of a nice juicy vulture, judging by the glint in his eye as he sits on their wall.

 

[Steve Robinson]

Steve Robinson: shame if your zoo is killing cats. It's generally been found that problems brought by feral cat colonies are better controlled by neutering and returning the cats. This prevents the colony growing in numbers, and the resident cats stop other cats moving in.

I think you might be in Australia? I apreciate that there are much better arguments there for not wanting free roaming cat colonies than over here. Sorry I don't have the references, but I have heard that some research suggests that cats may actually be benificial to Australian wildlife, in that they apparently predate more none native mice etc rather than native species, therefore possibly actually helping protect natives.

It might also be worth looking into possibilities of re-homing. Difficult I know, especially if the cats are feral, but maybe you could do a ring round?

Do you capture and check the cats for microchips/tameness before euthansia? If cats are moving into the zoo from outside some may well be people's lost pets.

I appreciate that another course of action might not be possible, but if it hasn't been done lately, it might be time for a re-evaluation of the policy on this. 'Zoo kills cats' is not good advertising.

Oh my giddy aunt!!

Rowan, old chap - come Down Under for a while and walk a mile in my shoes.

You don't have any valid "references". The bloody things have decimated Aussie wildlife - they don't have a single redeeming feature.

Neuter and return? So what do they eat when they are returned?

Re-home? Who wants the feral damn things? The RSPCA kills thousands of unwanted domestic moggies every year. Who wants the ferals?

Capture and check for microchips/tameness? Well we capture and can instantly assess their level of tameness - they try to kill you through the mesh of the cat-trap. Microchips mean nothing if they are on my property.

Somebody's lost pets? Probably several generations ago - that's why they are now feral. They should never have been brought to this country in the first place.

In this country "zoo kills cats" indicates responsible animal management.

 

[ZYBen]

Oh my giddy aunt!!

Rowan, old chap - come Down Under for a while and walk a mile in my shoes.

You don't have any valid "references". The bloody things have decimated Aussie wildlife - they don't have a single redeeming feature.

Neuter and return? So what do they eat when they are returned?

Re-home? Who wants the feral damn things? The RSPCA kills thousands of unwanted domestic moggies every year. Who wants the ferals?

Capture and check for microchips/tameness? Well we capture and can instantly assess their level of tameness - they try to kill you through the mesh of the cat-trap. Microchips mean nothing if they are on my property.

Somebody's lost pets? Probably several generations ago - that's why they are now feral. They should never have been brought to this country in the first place.

In this country "zoo kills cats" indicates responsible animal management.

HERE HERE!!!!

 

[Pertinax]

Next question on the Great Rat Survey. Is it possible to effectively control them in Zoos- in other words are the zoos where they seem very plentiful and therefore most highly visible, not doing something they could to control them better?

 

[Steve Robinson]

Next question on the Great Rat Survey. Is it possible to effectively control them in Zoos- in other words are the zoos where they seem very plentiful and therefore most highly visible, not doing something they could to control them better?

Getting back to rats - thank you Pertinax.

I don't think that they can ever be totally eliminated in zoos. We provide conditions that must be akin to rat utopia. Food, water, shelter and warmth.

We can trap, shoot, remove foodstuffs at night, flood holes and nests and even, when safe to do so , poison the varmints. One of the most effective rat eradicators that we have used was to add a pair of kookaburras to a macaw aviary that had a persistent rat problem. The regulators hated the idea of non-geographically compatible species sharing an enclosure but the arrangement worked well against the rats.

Inevitably though, when we finally get on top of the problem, the seasons change and, with the onset of winter, wild rats move into the comparative warmth of the zoo and we start the eradication cycle all over again.

 

[Goretex]

Next question on the Great Rat Survey. Is it possible to effectively control them in Zoos- in other words are the zoos where they seem very plentiful and therefore most highly visible, not doing something they could to control them better?

Don't worry I'm sure Roland will be ok. I haven't seen him for some time though.

 

[adrian1963]

Dudley zoo did have a major problem with Rats in Inca's enclosure that's why they stopped doing the visitors feeding in the afternoon since then they have now got rid of nearly all the rats from the enclosure but there are still a few little critters left. They are also in the Red Panda enclosure but they have been there ever since I have been going to Dudley (over 30 years now)
I have seen rats at some other zoos over the past couple of years including Chester (Zebra enclosure) But in the most they have been in the enclosures were food is left lying on the ground, so maybe if they were to some how feed the animals by not putting the food directly on the ground it may keep some of the little critters out. (I know rats can climb but like most pests if the food supply is easier to get somewhere else then they will move on)

 

[urbpan]

I am a zoo pest control manager in the United States, and I feel like I need to dispel some misconceptions on this thread. Rats (and other animals) can spread disease to collection animals even if the pest animals are healthy. There are parasites, bacteria, viruses as well as the risk of predation. Rats are extremely difficult to control, and I'm sure almost every zoo has them. I have not been to many zoos in Britain, but I took a course at Durrell, and they had a great program of pest control, but still struggled with rats.

Cats may be worse than rats as far as disease goes. Healthy cats can have toxoplasmosis which is harmless to them, but has proven to be lethal to lemurs and macropods among other species. I trap cats and bring stray pets to the shelter and lethally control feral cats. According to studies, feral cats DO NOT resist invasion by other cats despite popular opinion, so TNR programs are inadequate for pest cat control. They also give zoo neighbors the impression that it's okay to let cats run loose.

At least you in the UK don't have rabies! Count that blessing.

 

[Pertinax]

Rats are extremely difficult to control, and I'm sure almost every zoo has them. I have not been to many zoos in Britain, but I took a course at Durrell, and they had a great program of pest control, but still struggled with rats.

Thankyou for your input. It was only in the last year or so I've really noticed them in a Zoo(at Colchester) but of course have always been aware they must be present in most zoos to some degree. If you keep domestic poultry you will almost invariably attract rats, because of the food and shelter opportunities the birds create (however clean your conditions) and most zoos must create a similar environment, at least in some areas.

I think my overall interest was how much of a health problem they can create (both to animals and visitors) in a zoo.

 

[TARZAN]

Just been down the garden shed to feed the rabbits and guinea pigs while they are outside in the fresh air, went to get the netherland dwarfs bowl out the hutch and a mouse jumped out.

 

[Deviant*Strain]

The negative attitude on Rats is what makes me enjoy the animals. It isn't the rat that brings in disease, it's already in the environment normally bacteria walked in by keepers, fleas etc. The Rat's themselves don't carry diseases. They are not dirty little vermin, they are superbly clean, rarely urinate or defecate on their food or anywhere near their food. The spoilt food is normally done by other animals (such as Mice or even birds). They can be very easily relocated to any forest area and they tend to be fine, but zoo's must clean up their own act before going "OMGZ Kill the rats!" It tends to be zoo's that leave food stores open or with small gaps (remember, if a Rodent can get it's nose through, the hole body can fit through). Black Rats again are different to the Brown Rats. Black Rats in the UK are endagered and guess what? They are super shy, don't live in dirty places and like to eat insects and grains. Brown Rats are the more common ones and they came from Asia and America.


Rats are extremely good at adapting and living where sometimes other animals struggle. They've merely learnt areas near humans are good sources of food, shelter and safety. Guess what's the best way to keep away rats? Keep your own rats. I saw many a rat around a few zoo's, a couple months after that they installed a Rat enclosure (whether on show or not) and the rat's disappeared. I have a Rat, before I had her we used to see them all around the gardens, since I got her last December, not seen a Rat nor a trace of a rat.

I hate the negativity on this intelligent species. I know the world takes all sorts of people, but it takes all sorts of animals and Rat's are possibly one of the most successful mammalian species ever.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I've been to meetings like that!

As MRJ has pointed out and Mrs Secret Squirrel will attest to, the public perception of a facility with rats will not augur well for it's continuing success. Rodents are the most serious pest that we have here at the DDZ.
But "relocate" them? Never! We kill them, just as we kill cats and ants.

Mrs Squirrel works in the hospitality industry, catering and the like. If there was a rat in the vacinity of a place she worked at, cooked or served customers meals at, the place would be shut down by the health inspectors. So you can imagine her impression of the zoo we visited recently as she saw a rat scamper unconcerned past her feet along the path between the zoo restaurant and the Giraffe house. Her view of that restaurant is now irrevocably tainted.

Rats in zoos are no surprise, for smart critters there is a ready food supply and nice warm places to bed down in. Controling their number may be the tricky thing if you start talking about poisons around other animals, or traps to kill, and relocating a smart animal only sees it return to where it had a good thing going. Surely a better way of controling the number of rodents is to control their access to a food supply? It would make sense that less food feeds less animals.

At one of the reserves I used to work at there was perceived to be a need to control (meaning trap and have euthanased) the feral cats. The buggers were killing all the birds and squirrels. Instead we rounded them all up, had four tom cats neutered and put them back out on the reserve. They could not reproduce but held their territories. We had four cats on the reserve, we knew where they lived, and their perceived 'damage' was minimised. Would this work for rats too?

 

[Steve Robinson]

Surely a better way of controling the number of rodents is to control their access to a food supply? It would make sense that less food feeds less animals.

This is certainly true. However, you can only remove the uneaten food from your diurnal species enclosures. Nocturnal species need to eat at night - as will the rats.

Also, if deprived of the zoo animal's food, they will then eat some of the zoo animals themselves.

After all the preventative methods have been exhausted we find that the most effective form of control is poisoning. There are now some poisons available that don't have secondary effects. The baits have to be very carefully laid to ensure that the rats don't carry them to a spot where they can be accessed by the zoo's legitimate residents but, in the right places, they work a treat.

 

[Chlidonias]

Black Rats again are different to the Brown Rats. Black Rats in the UK are endagered and guess what? They are super shy, don't live in dirty places and like to eat insects and grains. Brown Rats are the more common ones and they came from Asia and America.

Black rats are no more native to the UK than brown rats are. Black rats originated in southeast Asia and did not reach Europe (via human introductions) until the 6th century. Brown rats originated in central/eastern Asia (not the Americas!), reaching Europe possibly in the 1500s. Both are a major pest species, whatever you personally may think of them. The black rat is in fact a worse problem in that it displays very strong arboreal tendencies whereas the brown rat is predominantly terrestrial. Yes black rats eat insects and grains; they are also very predatory and a grave threat to any small vertebrate species.